Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

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Geelong_Sicko said:
A more resposible and less abrasive foreign policy is the way to go. Starve these extremist f*ckwads of their impetus.
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Bingo! The west for so long has given the militants the recruiting material that aids and abets the recruitment of misfits, the psychologically troubled et al.
 
telsor said:
Yes, appeasement has a great track record.
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Not so much appeasement as the concept of 'a fire dosen't start without fuel'. And, just for the record, I am not justifying incidents like this seige that cost two innocent people their lives. I seek to prevent incidents like this. Prevention is always better than cure.
 

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Moo said:
So don't fight DAESH at all?
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The Islamic State faction are scum, you'll get no argument from me. But how did they grow? Why is it so easy to paint Washington and its minions as a great evil to be fought at every turn? The actions of the United States has done NOTHING but help extremism rise and grow fat on the bones of its foreign policy disasters.

Thanks Uncle Sam, you're a real pal:thumbsu:
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
Not so much appeasement as the concept of 'a fire dosen't start without fuel'. And, just for the record, I am not justifying incidents like this seige that cost two innocent people their lives. I seek to prevent incidents like this. Prevention is always better than cure.
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There will always be fuel for those who want to find it. There will always be those who feel, rightly or wrongly, they're put upon, exploited, neglected or simply seek to blame others for their own lack of success (in whatever manner they see that).

Backing off until they start looking for fuel on your side of the (disputed) fence only means that they'll have finished off what they want to do on their side. (doubtless with a significant head count).

Oh, and BTW, while I agree prevention is usually better than cure, that is clearly not always the case.
 
It's hardly a surprise that the various Murdoch media outlets really are the dregs when there is "leadership" like this.

Already posted I know, but I am still shaking my head in disbelief at the callousness displayed here.

10849724_706223726141349_6164615601880643413_n_zps6c276977.jpg
 
Danny Cullen said:
Because Obama didn't have the balls to sort out Syria.
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I think its more to do with the fact Washington's 'special relationship' with the House of Saud and the other Gulf Monarchies meant that it thought it could use the Saudi brand of militant Wahhabism as a destabalising force across Soviet-occupied Afghanistan and the Caucasus.

While initially a success, the more that monster ate the more it grew...
 
telsor said:
No, the person was still responsible for his actions.

I can give you a gun, fill your head with stories about how <group> are evil, point you at them and hand you the ammunition, but you would still be responsible if you pulled the trigger (I'd certainly be accessory).

Perhaps the mental health system might have had cause to intervene (if he was ever referred to them), but if they start locking people up when a lot of the persons 'issues' are related to their belief in god (in whatever form), that's a very big can of worms to open.
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Advocating personal responsibility is victim blaming.

:^)
 

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SpuriousPea said:
Advocating personal responsibility is victim blaming.

:^)
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I'm assuming this is a joke, but anyway...

People are responsible for their actions, and the reasonably predictable consequences of them. Going into a coffee shop doesn't have the 'reasonably predictable consequence' of being held hostage for 16 hours.
 
telsor said:
No, the person was still responsible for his actions.

I can give you a gun, fill your head with stories about how <group> are evil, point you at them and hand you the ammunition, but you would still be responsible if you pulled the trigger (I'd certainly be accessory).

Perhaps the mental health system might have had cause to intervene (if he was ever referred to them), but if they start locking people up when a lot of the persons 'issues' are related to their belief in god (in whatever form), that's a very big can of worms to open.
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Cmon. How many people are bail with accessory to murder charges? Yes, he didn't have to do what he did, but there is something wrong with the court system when a guy with his history isn't remanded in custody.
 
Power Raid said:
This is a terrible tragedy with no winners.

I feel this was a lone nutter who was a pathetic creature and couldn't come to terms with his own pathetic life. A life of embarrassing criminal behaviour, a life of deceit and pretending he was a religious leader and a person who needed to feel important by claiming the spotlight.

After his latest charges he probably stopped believing his own shit but couldn't bare what he saw in the mirror. He wasn't a religious leader, in fact he wasn't a leader of anything, he was just a pathetic criminal will a wrap sheet that could only be described as shameful.

To salvage pride he has committed an act of terrorism and tried to lay association with terrorist groups.

Unfortunately he has succeeded in terrorism, does represent refugees and he does represent islam. I just hope Australians view this turkey as a Martyn Bryant type and not get too excited by the incident.
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I don't know if you can categorically state he represents Islam but you sure as hell can't assess all the facts and take the proper action next without assessing Islam, (which is a common denominator in all these atrocities) its values, what it stands for and if many of its tenements are a fit for Western Society. I hate how that part of the debate is forgotten/suppressed in the rush for everyone to be seen at a Mosque/hob knobbing with Islamic Leaders.
 
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
I think its more to do with the fact Washington's 'special relationship' with the House of Saud and the other Gulf Monarchies meant that it thought it could use the Saudi brand of militant Wahhabism as a destabalising force across Soviet-occupied Afghanistan and the Caucasus.

While initially a success, the more that monster ate the more it grew...
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All the more reason in a Geopolitical sense for Australia to use our uranium, build our own nukes and not be a part of these ridiculous Foreign escapades into the Middle East. High time they sorted their own shit out. And they can do it on their shores if we ever get serious about immigration.
 
FIGJAM said:
Clear proof that those who can, do; those who can't, teach.

Also sufficient external proof that RMIT is a steaming pile of dog shit, fraudulent "university" full of idiots posing as learned elders, who couldn't hold a job in the real world. I say 'external', because I had sufficient internal proof having attained a degree there.
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Disagree with the majority of what he said. But he did make a point about the time before action was taken I agreed with. Rather then botched I think it was a tactical error. As was not shooting the pr## dead when he was in vision. The only reason thus far was the thick re inforced glass been a concern. Wouldn't a machine gun with armour piercing bullets overcome that?

Also if this shit ever happens again he need not worry about changes to our gun laws. People will simply arm up autonomously to protect themselves and not sit around in terror.
 
Juddism said:
Cmon. How many people are bail with accessory to murder charges? Yes, he didn't have to do what he did, but there is something wrong with the court system when a guy with his history isn't remanded in custody.
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I have no idea, but then, the law doesn't seem to care what charge you're up on.

Generally, an accused person will be granted bail (often with special conditions) and released until the date of the next court hearing. If the offender confesses to the police that they committed the crime, they may still be released on bail until they come before a court. This is because a person is not considered guilty until a court has heard the case and a magistrate or judge has found there is enough evidence to prove that they are guilty of the crime.

Bail may be refused and the accused held in custody if the police or courts are satisfied that there is an unacceptable risk that the offender would:

  • not appear in court
  • commit further offences while on bail
  • endanger the safety or welfare of the public, or
  • interfere with witnesses (including the victim) or obstruct the course of justice.
- See more at: http://www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au/home/charges+laid/bail/#sthash.0jnxGSMS.dpuf
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(yeah, Vic not NSW, but I assume they're pretty similar.


The police or court clearly didn't think there was an 'unacceptable risk' in this case. (you'd probably need to go to the court documents to assess why).
 

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Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

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