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AFLW 2024 - Round 3 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Simpson’s final years - What went wrong
- Thread starter Balls In
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- Jan 13, 2013
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Or...we could just let people talk about what they want to and if you don't want to read it then don't click on the thread?
I think it all turned to crap with the Kelly trade. Simpson (and Nissy), I'm pretty sure, would have wanted the trade thinking there was another premiership in the squad when there wasn't. It probably also put other players noses out of joint thinking why should I bust my gut for this club and this coach when Kelly walks in on huge coin having proved nothing. Hated that trade when it happened and always though it was a disaster for he club. Now we have a highly paid, untradeable player who, isn't leadership material and can't kick.
Looks like I'm going to have to defend the 2018 premiership again.
Only team in history to go undefeated in Victoria for a season.
8-3 interstate
6-0 against the top 4 on the ladder
9-3 against the top 8
We were the best team in the comp in 2018 and there isn't a doubt. Won under incredible duress with players unavailable and playing away from home too.
Tigers went 15-1 at the MCG and 1-4 interstate. Only in the AFL can you be good at one venue and be called a powerhouse. The Gold Coast Suns would be turning in their graves.
Middle of the year after our 10 match streak people forget we had a serious injury crisis. Went into R17 with 3 losses in a row, no LeCras, Darling, Kennedy, Ryan or Waterman up forward, no Barrass or Mackenzie down back. Won anyway. Went to the MCG and beat the Pies next week and lost NN for the season. Three weeks later lost Gaff for the season. Shep tore his hamstring off the bone in the QF. Down 5 goals in the GF. I think the hardest won premiership in the 21st century and it doesn't get enough credit.
Only team in history to go undefeated in Victoria for a season.
8-3 interstate
6-0 against the top 4 on the ladder
9-3 against the top 8
We were the best team in the comp in 2018 and there isn't a doubt. Won under incredible duress with players unavailable and playing away from home too.
Tigers went 15-1 at the MCG and 1-4 interstate. Only in the AFL can you be good at one venue and be called a powerhouse. The Gold Coast Suns would be turning in their graves.
Middle of the year after our 10 match streak people forget we had a serious injury crisis. Went into R17 with 3 losses in a row, no LeCras, Darling, Kennedy, Ryan or Waterman up forward, no Barrass or Mackenzie down back. Won anyway. Went to the MCG and beat the Pies next week and lost NN for the season. Three weeks later lost Gaff for the season. Shep tore his hamstring off the bone in the QF. Down 5 goals in the GF. I think the hardest won premiership in the 21st century and it doesn't get enough credit.
Why do we need him to tell us when we got you.
Can't argue with your post but I still think we lose 2018 GF if we played the Tigers.
Your facts and common sense have no place in this thread Quinny
Maybe we do. But the system is tilted in favour of that outcome, doesn't make us a worse team. Sometimes you can beat City Hall, they're still a bunch of ruffians and ne'er-do-wells.
Keys
Looking for a cloud to yell at
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Maybe if they were at full strength but they were cooked which is why Collingwood were able to beat them
Dusty in particular was nowhere close to 100% fit
They weren’t getting past us in the 2018 GF because it didn’t rain. That era we had them covered unless it was wet, then they had us covered
The rain after halftime in 2019 arguably changed the course of not just that game but the season
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Nisbett, Simpson and the Senior players (of that era) in that order are all culpable for where we’re at/been the last few years.
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I’m relieved Simmo is not at the helm and excited about season 2025.
I would definitely not have been looking forward to the upcoming season if he was still there.
I’m praying that both Long and Hewett can play and play well next year, those 2 have some serious talent, and will greatly improve our team.
I would definitely not have been looking forward to the upcoming season if he was still there.
I’m praying that both Long and Hewett can play and play well next year, those 2 have some serious talent, and will greatly improve our team.
Eastern Rangers
2015 Worsfold Medalist - Rowen Powell
Simpson was a good coach who was rusted onto a particular tactical idea around ball retention and persisted with it when the squad couldn't do it and the game moved away from it. But the biggest issue is he was generally unsupported by the club more broadly and its why i don't think our "well resourced" club is looked at as an attractive place to coach right now.
Simpsons position within the club means he inevitably holds a lot of responsibility and he did make obvious mistakes but he's not the villan in this story, that's Nisbett. Nisbett ran the club into the ground, although COVID was unforeseeable from a club management perspective, his lack of decisive leadership is the biggest factor and it was really the years 2019-21 that are to blame.
The AFL Soft cap came into effect during Covid and this was after club the re-signed Simpson in the senior position to 2022 and extended through Covid. Simpson was one of the best paid coaches within the AFL and the instability of the management team during Covid was partly a result of a lack of room for structural changes within the football department.
We lacked a full-time list manager; our football operations manager Craig Vozzo inherited the position before he rightly left the club after being seriously overworked. This position then fell to our recruiters, who probably did a better job than Vozzo who should have never been anywhere near list management decisions from a talent perspective.
We've had a rather unique inflection point where nobody has been in critical decision-making positions, the coach remained under supported while being entrenched to the point where he probably needed someone pushing back hard on player development & strategy.
Our injuries from 2021-2023 accelerated our decline to the point where we became uncompetitive and a bit of a joke, as did some recruitment decisions designed to buttress the senior players actually just weakened player development and delayed list turnover. eg: Witherden played ahead of Rotham, Rotham then stagnates but is retained on the list? You end up with players rotting away your list.
Other points:
Simpsons position within the club means he inevitably holds a lot of responsibility and he did make obvious mistakes but he's not the villan in this story, that's Nisbett. Nisbett ran the club into the ground, although COVID was unforeseeable from a club management perspective, his lack of decisive leadership is the biggest factor and it was really the years 2019-21 that are to blame.
The AFL Soft cap came into effect during Covid and this was after club the re-signed Simpson in the senior position to 2022 and extended through Covid. Simpson was one of the best paid coaches within the AFL and the instability of the management team during Covid was partly a result of a lack of room for structural changes within the football department.
We lacked a full-time list manager; our football operations manager Craig Vozzo inherited the position before he rightly left the club after being seriously overworked. This position then fell to our recruiters, who probably did a better job than Vozzo who should have never been anywhere near list management decisions from a talent perspective.
We've had a rather unique inflection point where nobody has been in critical decision-making positions, the coach remained under supported while being entrenched to the point where he probably needed someone pushing back hard on player development & strategy.
Our injuries from 2021-2023 accelerated our decline to the point where we became uncompetitive and a bit of a joke, as did some recruitment decisions designed to buttress the senior players actually just weakened player development and delayed list turnover. eg: Witherden played ahead of Rotham, Rotham then stagnates but is retained on the list? You end up with players rotting away your list.
Other points:
- Reid has brought his bad habits from junior football.
- Our rebuild is years ahead of Richmond while North KP depth is poor.
- Senior guys might have won us the game against Fremantle but beyond that it's been the kids making the difference.
- We entered the season as fit as we've been in a decade. The issue is the composition of the squad with a lack of innate running power, rather than squad fitness relative to players of type from other clubs.
I really do think the whole 2020 COVID situation was the big turning point for Simmo and the club.
2018 and previous you could argue Simmo as one of the great WCE coaches.
2019 we had a major premiership hangover and a Willy Rioli derailed the finals push (this is the wasted year for mine, similar to 2007)
2020 onwards the whole COVID situation we stank up, and Simmo seemed to never recover or regain the group from (there were obviously some major internal issues which developed in that time which broke the group).
I don't think it fair to blame it all on Simmo, but rather everyone involved at the time has to take responsibility, including playing group.
2018 and previous you could argue Simmo as one of the great WCE coaches.
2019 we had a major premiership hangover and a Willy Rioli derailed the finals push (this is the wasted year for mine, similar to 2007)
2020 onwards the whole COVID situation we stank up, and Simmo seemed to never recover or regain the group from (there were obviously some major internal issues which developed in that time which broke the group).
I don't think it fair to blame it all on Simmo, but rather everyone involved at the time has to take responsibility, including playing group.
The constant injuries to 4 out of our best 5 players (McGovern, Naitanui, Shuey and Yeo - with Kennedy the other) is what dived bomb the 2018 squad - add in the retirement of Sheppard, the loss of Lycett and Rioli (enough said) and suddenly a big portion of that team isn’t playing. Tim Kelly was a costly trade that in no way has paid off, considering we were bringing him in to be a ‘cream’ player and he’s been forced to our #1 mid for large portions of time.
Guys like Kelly, Darling, Gaff, Cripps, Sheed, Barrass and Duggan are forced to step up and become our ‘best players’ - and they just aren’t really up to it in those roles, to the highest level.
Add in more injuries and a lack of top draft talent from a combination of loyalty to players (and club) and consistent performance and….yep….it’s not good.
Guys like Kelly, Darling, Gaff, Cripps, Sheed, Barrass and Duggan are forced to step up and become our ‘best players’ - and they just aren’t really up to it in those roles, to the highest level.
Add in more injuries and a lack of top draft talent from a combination of loyalty to players (and club) and consistent performance and….yep….it’s not good.
I think we all take for granted how clean Wooshas exit was and how great a shape the list was in. Simmo said day one of pre season he couldn't believe how fit the team was.
Fast forward to now. The team isn't fit, barely skillful and only like three or four younger players who you can point to and say they'll be around if we make another Grand Final run.
Fast forward to now. The team isn't fit, barely skillful and only like three or four younger players who you can point to and say they'll be around if we make another Grand Final run.
We are coming from a long way back, I have not seen any club in such poor shape. No draft hand either on top of not fit and skill level.
There has definitely been a huge lack of accountability and lack of leadership at the club for years now, both in the playing group and in the football dept.
It's created a terrible culture that isn't conducive to growth or high performance. Players have been coddled and unacceptable behaviours/efforts have mostly gone unpunished. We just come out with BS excuses. Think the tail has been wagging the dog for far too long.
The culture is a much bigger problem than the talent of the list imo.
The only way you can be down by 100 at half time in this league is if you're not trying. Good luck getting this group to develop elite standards and habits.
I think it's mostly on Simpson tbh.
It's created a terrible culture that isn't conducive to growth or high performance. Players have been coddled and unacceptable behaviours/efforts have mostly gone unpunished. We just come out with BS excuses. Think the tail has been wagging the dog for far too long.
The culture is a much bigger problem than the talent of the list imo.
The only way you can be down by 100 at half time in this league is if you're not trying. Good luck getting this group to develop elite standards and habits.
I think it's mostly on Simpson tbh.
Monocle
And the rebuild begins.
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While Eades comments are terse and not a comfortable listen, they are certainly not without merit.
The part about the chat that I find both amusing and ( reflects a degree of kicking someone when they are down - always a cheap throwaway line, guaranteed to get a click or a like ) , is this:
He mentioned that potential candidates, current assistant Coaches, seeking a Head Coaching role are bailing out from applying for the job, because of poor standard that have lead the Club to becoming a basket case.
Well IMO.
If the prospective Coaches are not strong enough, or, don't think they are up for the fight to lift the standards, then quite frankly why would West Coast want that sort of mindset and mentality entering the decision making and management at the Club.
Eade states that West Coasts shortcoming are obvious, so why wouldn't a young coach be champing at the bit to get in , get his hands dirty and turn things around.
Summary and my take on the opinion piece:
Eade does raise some very good points, but he also over plays the cheap shots, to dramatise the entertainment component of the podcast.
The part about the chat that I find both amusing and ( reflects a degree of kicking someone when they are down - always a cheap throwaway line, guaranteed to get a click or a like ) , is this:
He mentioned that potential candidates, current assistant Coaches, seeking a Head Coaching role are bailing out from applying for the job, because of poor standard that have lead the Club to becoming a basket case.
Well IMO.
If the prospective Coaches are not strong enough, or, don't think they are up for the fight to lift the standards, then quite frankly why would West Coast want that sort of mindset and mentality entering the decision making and management at the Club.
Eade states that West Coasts shortcoming are obvious, so why wouldn't a young coach be champing at the bit to get in , get his hands dirty and turn things around.
Summary and my take on the opinion piece:
Eade does raise some very good points, but he also over plays the cheap shots, to dramatise the entertainment component of the podcast.
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Rodney Eade is a failed coach whose only party trick was screaming at his players and coaching staff, are you surprised?
It is not simply about Eade and his comments.
It is about supporters shattered by the club’s recent diabolical seasons, which don’t look like they are about to end anytime soon, trying to understand what happened to the powerful team of 2018 and why.
The last three seasons have been the worst in the club’s history and it’s not going to change soon.
It’s the natural human response to ask what happened and why? We don’t really know the answers to these questions.
If we can understand something we have a better capacity for dealing with it psychologically.
Just saying it’s a new time now, that was the past, move on is not an adequate answer for the human spirit or at least some of the human spirits.
Like what happened to Adam Simpson and the team in the second half of 2021? Why did he look so devastated? And the team perform so poorly?
I suspect that there are more players (agents) than these. For example fitness, recruiting, list management, board, probably the whole organization.
See these two points don't go together.
You can't say it's a lack effort/trying from the players, and then say it's mostly on Simpson, that's on the players.
These guys are, supposedly, professionals. Do they really need a head coach to get them up and about to do their job? Thats local footy areas, not AFL.
If they turn up to a game and a majority have already decided that today's not the day, no amount of Remember the Titans inspirational coach talk will get them going.
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Simmo rarely dropped players or held them accountable. A lot of people, not just elite athletes will become lazy and give the bare minimum if there are no consequences for unacceptable performance. Simpson was the enabler in chief
Fk me, cant just pin this on simmo
Simmo, nezbett, the board, list management, recruiting and strength and conditioning all share blame.
All have failed since 2018.
Simmo, nezbett, the board, list management, recruiting and strength and conditioning all share blame.
All have failed since 2018.
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