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Coach Simpson’s final years - What went wrong
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Watched part 2 of Simmo’s Backchat last night. Strongly recommend every West Coast fan gives it a watch too - almost relieving to see Simmo be able to speak in a candid and comfortable setting. Poor bloke has gone from a player and captain, straight into assistant coaching and straight into senior coaching for 30 years. Never had a chance to really speak as Simmo the dude instead of Simmo the AFL employee.
He’s a bit of a strange cat but it’s clear his main priority has always been looking after the players.
He’s a bit of a strange cat but it’s clear his main priority has always been looking after the players.
It is indeed a really good two part sit down chat.
Just not sure about the shirt selection. That shirt hasn't been good for about 2 years but he keeps backing it in. I think J. Schofield would make a more bold statement when it comes to shirt selection.
Just not sure about the shirt selection. That shirt hasn't been good for about 2 years but he keeps backing it in. I think J. Schofield would make a more bold statement when it comes to shirt selection.
sharps24
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Definitely worth checking out that backchat episode, Simmo is pretty open about where certain things went wrong and for me it puts to bed some questions I'd had watching from afar.
Highlights would be,
+ 2015 GF prep was far from ideal, and we basically did everything differently in 2018. Kinda makes you wonder what might have been if they got it right the first time- as I've always felt we were a better side relative to the competition in 2015- but what can you do. 2nd year coach from Victoria in a GF with a travelling WA based team.
+ Schofield telling the story of Jetta being late to a final because he was playing call of duty and lost track of the time, Simmo still bristled a bit hearing it back and fair enough lol. Seems that was a challenging relationship but god love Jetts.
+ On the 2015 zone defence/web. "I guarantee Wellingham didn't know what was going on" lol.
+ 2016 and 2017 were poor years largely because they messed too much with a winning system looking for a greater edge, just an overcorrection that they realised and addressed in 2018.
Overall it just kind of drives home the point that a football club is full of human beings just trying things and learning and doing their best. As a fan you kinda expect that human error should be all but eliminated but in reality in every year all it takes for the half dozen or more clubs who could be genuine contenders to have a dud campaign is for the balance to be slightly off.
A very good coach could be defined as someone who, with a great list in its window, can find a way to rise above the mean and gets more right than they get wrong for once. Between 2015 and 2020 we had the ingredients to be the best side in the league and in 2 of those years it was between us and one other club. In 2018 we were that club. Simmo proved he was a very good coach, but just because you do something once doesn't really make you an expert and most who've done it once will never do it again. The past 6 seasons is just what never doing it again looks like no?
You kind wish we'd of had an all time great at the helm for the last 10 years and that maybe that means an extra cup or two in the trophy cabinet and a few less wooden spoons on the other side but it is what it is. All coaches have weaknesses and hindsight is 20/20. Time for someone else to have a crack and let's hope the next bloke is at least as good- because most aren't. It's a long road back and it's easy to be negative about the state Simmo left the club in, but don't look back in anger.
Much like Whoosh, he's more than likely left it in a much better state than we realise. I have to imagine we're in a better place than if someone who was an objectively bad coach had of been at the helm these last 3 years anyway.
Edit: Another thing that was mentioned in the pod, a large part of why Simpson was appointed and with regard to drafting certainly in the beginning of his tenure, was that the club's number 1 priority was bringing in people of "excellent character" following the collapse of the bad boiz era that netted the 2006 premiership. Character was more important even than football ability when selecting draftee's [according to Simmo] so in one way or another that's going to shape the playing group and present novel challenges. We certainly seem to have created a playing group what was inordinately family oriented [bloody kids everywhere] and loyal. Made a unique and tightly knit group at the front end [2018] but maybe toward the end where all the senior guys bodies started failing them- miraculously around the same time they had newborns through to toddlers sleeping under the same roof- and overwhelmingly refusing to explore greener pastures where most lists would experience some natural turnover in exchange for an improved draft hand, this project revealed some downsides. I suspect that the whole "credits crew" thing was probably also an unanticipated dimension to this culture of family and loyalty and good vibes that we pursued, and that's not really all on Simmo.
Highlights would be,
+ 2015 GF prep was far from ideal, and we basically did everything differently in 2018. Kinda makes you wonder what might have been if they got it right the first time- as I've always felt we were a better side relative to the competition in 2015- but what can you do. 2nd year coach from Victoria in a GF with a travelling WA based team.
+ Schofield telling the story of Jetta being late to a final because he was playing call of duty and lost track of the time, Simmo still bristled a bit hearing it back and fair enough lol. Seems that was a challenging relationship but god love Jetts.
+ On the 2015 zone defence/web. "I guarantee Wellingham didn't know what was going on" lol.
+ 2016 and 2017 were poor years largely because they messed too much with a winning system looking for a greater edge, just an overcorrection that they realised and addressed in 2018.
Overall it just kind of drives home the point that a football club is full of human beings just trying things and learning and doing their best. As a fan you kinda expect that human error should be all but eliminated but in reality in every year all it takes for the half dozen or more clubs who could be genuine contenders to have a dud campaign is for the balance to be slightly off.
A very good coach could be defined as someone who, with a great list in its window, can find a way to rise above the mean and gets more right than they get wrong for once. Between 2015 and 2020 we had the ingredients to be the best side in the league and in 2 of those years it was between us and one other club. In 2018 we were that club. Simmo proved he was a very good coach, but just because you do something once doesn't really make you an expert and most who've done it once will never do it again. The past 6 seasons is just what never doing it again looks like no?
You kind wish we'd of had an all time great at the helm for the last 10 years and that maybe that means an extra cup or two in the trophy cabinet and a few less wooden spoons on the other side but it is what it is. All coaches have weaknesses and hindsight is 20/20. Time for someone else to have a crack and let's hope the next bloke is at least as good- because most aren't. It's a long road back and it's easy to be negative about the state Simmo left the club in, but don't look back in anger.
Much like Whoosh, he's more than likely left it in a much better state than we realise. I have to imagine we're in a better place than if someone who was an objectively bad coach had of been at the helm these last 3 years anyway.
Edit: Another thing that was mentioned in the pod, a large part of why Simpson was appointed and with regard to drafting certainly in the beginning of his tenure, was that the club's number 1 priority was bringing in people of "excellent character" following the collapse of the bad boiz era that netted the 2006 premiership. Character was more important even than football ability when selecting draftee's [according to Simmo] so in one way or another that's going to shape the playing group and present novel challenges. We certainly seem to have created a playing group what was inordinately family oriented [bloody kids everywhere] and loyal. Made a unique and tightly knit group at the front end [2018] but maybe toward the end where all the senior guys bodies started failing them- miraculously around the same time they had newborns through to toddlers sleeping under the same roof- and overwhelmingly refusing to explore greener pastures where most lists would experience some natural turnover in exchange for an improved draft hand, this project revealed some downsides. I suspect that the whole "credits crew" thing was probably also an unanticipated dimension to this culture of family and loyalty and good vibes that we pursued, and that's not really all on Simmo.
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Simmo was a good coach who won us a flag and will forever be a premiership coach at our club.
But you could not plan to leave the club in a bigger mess than he has. The club is as low as any club could possibly be.
It’s not just Simmo who is responsible but as the senior coach on huge money it’s very much on him more than anyone.
We will move on and we will recover in time. But it’s a long way back.
sharps24
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I'm not sure about this, for me it depends on what happens in the next 12 months. It might be a fairly short way back.
We had arguably the worst 3 years on the field of any club in history, but I'm not sure that the psychological scars are there that clubs like Melbourne had after similar periods down the bottom of the ladder. So the cost of those down years might be much less. With a pretty high rate of list turnover and other personnel changes off field, I think we can probably avoid a situation where failure becomes some sort of endemic new norm.
On the flip side, even when we might of been the form side of the competition during periods between 2015 and 2020 we never had the kind of true strength of character or hard edge that is the brand of many top sides. From memory a lot of that was a criticism of the Worsfold 2011/2012 era team as well. So even if the scars of the past 3 years are only skin deep, what lurks beneath the surface isn't exactly hardened steel either. Its up the the next generation of players to define their own identities now though, it looks to me that the young guys are from a different mould so lets back them in and hope to be surprised.
All in all, I'm sympathetic to the perfect storm thesis in which our poor from has been exaggerated and to a certain point is not a true account of where we sit. We needed access to the top of the draft and we needed to move on the coach, so to the extent we have done those things now I'm not too focused on just how badly Simmo coached. Best case scenario is that no coach- or at least Simmo specifically- could have done much better with the cards that were dealt and that's precipitated a change in direction for the club. It's now largely about a [mostly] new set of challenges facing a [mostly] new playing group and [mostly] new football department.
I forgot just how farrkked that hub situation the first time around was. Leaving for QLD with absolutely no word on anything else.
Also kind of disappointing to hear that the credits crew was pretty much a thing.
Also kind of disappointing to hear that the credits crew was pretty much a thing.
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Covid plus the two years of having 20+ players on the injured list absolutely ravaged the players and destroyed their confidence. Then trying to call on the Eagles WAFL players who win on average two games a year has bred a losers mentality and standards involving everything went into the toilet.
Hopefully a new coach with a harder edge can snap these blokes out of their three year malaise.
Would still be a good coach elsewhere, was just here too long and sounds like he well and truly knew it
Probably right listening back. Point still stands though really for all the same reasoning
Everyone seems to recall the WCE response when they were hubbing but not many recall the circumstances leading up to it, the impact on families and, initially, the undetermined duration and lack of clarity surrounding the hub duration.
Sure, should have got over it quicker than we did (for whatever reason) but the situation should never be discussed simply as the Eagles didn’t hub well.
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Quality journalism.
Compare Dixon, who has been washed up for years, to anyone and he looks to lack run and pace.
Geelongs talls kick 6 between them, so just call one them a "tall-small" and continue on your merry way with your forced narrative.
Lol - wtf is a "tall-small"? Cameron is a KPF through and through. Sure he can run, so could Buddy and Kennedy.
He said something similar on Schofield’s podcast. Said that when he got to the club in 2014 that the players were ready for a new voice, and that he feels the current players are the same. Was very optimistic that they could respond quote well to the right coach. Exact quote was something like "they're so ready, I can feel it"
So ready to actually try and not get flogged each week?
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Naitanui never does knee.... odds on we win 2 flags. Yet people were saying prior he was going to do his knee the way he played.
Ross Lyon doesn't put the tag on Reid & we beat Saints & North @ home..... Simmo probably still has job. Yet someone was going to put the hard tag on Reid eventually.
If only we won that 2nd last game of 2019 v Tigers at the MCG. I think the story may be heaps different.
I think we should get Brett Montgomery
Ross Lyon doesn't put the tag on Reid & we beat Saints & North @ home..... Simmo probably still has job. Yet someone was going to put the hard tag on Reid eventually.
If only we won that 2nd last game of 2019 v Tigers at the MCG. I think the story may be heaps different.
I think we should get Brett Montgomery
Simmos biggest fault was not realising we needed to rebuild in 21. We should have cut some more and started earlier.
There is an argument we don't win in 2018 if NN plays. Vardy and Lycett could run with Grundy and be accountable for Grundy which they were. NN would possibly get towelled up by Grundy.
Anyway it doesn't matter as we won one flag. Saying we would of won more with NN or couldn't of won any with him just has no point.
I don't think NN would get toweled up but our midfield would have been a lot more attacking with him there, which may have backfired. Without him, the rucks negated Grundy and we went from there.
Spot on we should have started the rebuild in 2021. Delaying the inevitable has left us in the shite situation we are in.
To remain at the top we need to improve our list quality by at least 15% year on year.
The club and not just Simmo kept players and assistants on for far too long.
The rebuild will take 5 yrs at least and 10yrs if we lose Harley.
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The tatters he and co. left the club in is why I'm "meh" towards him in interviews and stuff these days.
Thanks for the success but 8 wins in like 60 games is crap
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Thanks for the success but 8 wins in like 60 games is crap
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Yep. He admitted as much on Backchat - backed in players he thought were proven and was probably too loyal. He was likely the same with assistants. Someone like Chris Scott has helped the Cats evolve and constantly improve with good recruiting and list management. Simpson just white knuckled it until the end.
I mean. I think if you look at who we’ve drafted the past 5 seasons and how many have been delisted shows either our recruiters are absolutely diabolical, development was dog sh!t wrapped in human sh!t and Simpson saw zero in most of the guys who were drafted. The fact Xavier O’Neill played 15 games last season and was delisted shows you everything you need to know.
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