What if Voss isn't listening to the assistance coach's. This is a real possibility
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Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?
- Thread starter The Toad
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JustOneTime
All Australian
- Jul 11, 2023
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What is really interesting is the tactical stupidity.
You draft Mckay and Curnow who are elite KPFs. You then build a strategy around that because that is what you have and yes, they are elite players by role. So Carlton go away and build a transition plan to kick it high down the line to either Charlie or Harry.
That plan is great.
Then comes along the opposition and they go, wow, we cant stop those two elite one-on-one players, so let's play 1-2 extra to outbody/outposition/stop them.
Result. They have stopped them in the context that Charlie and Harry still kick goals but they waste 40+ entries to target for those few 3-5 goals output. That is a win now for the opposition on all the wasted inside 50 opportunities let alone the rebound goals.
Carlton's 'tactical' response. I have no idea what to do now because chalie/Harry are elite players....so, so let's go more high and down the wing and try and get more players over there to help out.
The outcome. We have smalls who play very little part in our game plan and then get called useless. We also have some tall forward targets who are very sore by seasons end from trying so hard in a pack of 4 plus trying to be superman. anyone else notice how the opposition ruckman is now always down the line when we kick it out of defence. And then there is Pitto getting in the way too. Now process Charlie's chance of taking a mark.
Anyway, lets look away now and let vossy double down on this strategy as he wont be pushed into a new way in case it looks like he has been pushed.
You draft Mckay and Curnow who are elite KPFs. You then build a strategy around that because that is what you have and yes, they are elite players by role. So Carlton go away and build a transition plan to kick it high down the line to either Charlie or Harry.
That plan is great.
Then comes along the opposition and they go, wow, we cant stop those two elite one-on-one players, so let's play 1-2 extra to outbody/outposition/stop them.
Result. They have stopped them in the context that Charlie and Harry still kick goals but they waste 40+ entries to target for those few 3-5 goals output. That is a win now for the opposition on all the wasted inside 50 opportunities let alone the rebound goals.
Carlton's 'tactical' response. I have no idea what to do now because chalie/Harry are elite players....so, so let's go more high and down the wing and try and get more players over there to help out.
The outcome. We have smalls who play very little part in our game plan and then get called useless. We also have some tall forward targets who are very sore by seasons end from trying so hard in a pack of 4 plus trying to be superman. anyone else notice how the opposition ruckman is now always down the line when we kick it out of defence. And then there is Pitto getting in the way too. Now process Charlie's chance of taking a mark.
Anyway, lets look away now and let vossy double down on this strategy as he wont be pushed into a new way in case it looks like he has been pushed.
I want him to fight back and prove everyone wrong
This is the old Clarkson strategy of taking away the risk and using the boundary line as a safety net. Issue is the game has changed and opposition find us so predictable.
Go to any game live this year and you will see the oppostion swarm to the spot they know we will kick it to. Whether it's wide down the wings or long to Harry/Charlie it's predictable and we have no answer. Never seen such stupid football and I don't understand why
- Apr 4, 2018
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We play a standard football game style. Not only that it’s predictable it is too taxing on the players having to constantly fight for the ball in heavy congestion.
One could say it’s a game style made for Cripps. And it’s most because of Cripps that we win.
Take Cripps away or if oppo nullify him our game plan would have us languishing below top 8.
Kingsley according to the Prendercast was told No, because not marketable and chasing a coach not "on training wheels" using Judds words...and we hired Voss
They did offer him the senior assistant gig which he declined.
Adam Simpson is one coach who we should get in, even for short term to assist Voss. But its unlikely
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Cook is in succession planning mode.
All this should have been done in 2023.
We had a good run, but the reality is we were in dire straits mid last year with alot of the same issues... only sorted out by the player driven Camp Curnow
Won a few close games on that run, i think we had delayed pain, and even more so when little was done in exit interviews and trade period
Marchbank
Cunningham
Even fogarty were all done mid last year
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Luke Power been around at Carlton a long time. In charge of development.
Slide his playing record aside, is he actually doing us any favours as a coach in that role?
Maybe time for a change
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Slide his playing record aside, is he actually doing us any favours as a coach in that role?
Maybe time for a change
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Hawthorn 2007 finals, and won a final with buddy dominantIt rarely, if ever is on purpose, no matter what bullshit is spun.
At the end of 2016, Richmond admitted their rebuild was only based around making the finals, they weren't building for flag contention at all - they didn't think the supporter base had the patience for a full rebuild.
AFL 2016: Richmond Tigers concede they are 'paying the price' for list strategy
Richmond football department boss Dan Richardson has admitted the Tigers are "paying a price" for going down the path of seeking mature-age players, revealing they had felt supporters would not accept an eight-year rebuild.www.theage.com.au
Then, bang - players hit their straps and they win 3 flags in 4 years. They never 'planned' that, they just did the best they could with what was in front of them and it all clicked in 2017 when nobody expected them to do anything, once that monkey was off that groups back nothing was stopping them.
No way Collingwood thought they would be in flag contention in 2022, they sensed the momentum and ran with it all the way until the end of 2023.
Geelong just play the numbers game and try to be in contention every year until luck falls their way & other teams drop off.
The closest thing to planned success I can think of is Hawthorn under Clarko, but even then, pinching one early in 2009 got the ball rolling for that group.
I really think if we're any hope of succeeding with this group, we need a Richmond 2017 year. They were a good H&A team who got a run on in the back end of the year, finishing 3rd. Went into every final as non-favorites, so had nothing to lose which was perfect for them - as they were mentally fragile having EF losses every year. Fair few similarities between them and us.
Hawthorn 2008 flag.
Linear YoY improvement under clarko rebuild
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I think Power has been good. 3-4 years ago our development was a basket case. It has definitely improved.
Binns O’Keefe Moir Lord are coming on well. IMO it’s more about Voss trusting them and players being used in best roles
A few played the same. Times have changed
It wasn’t linear, it was hockey stick. They pinched one early, when Geelong choked.
How linear were the Hawks in 2009 and 2010?
- Apr 4, 2018
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I sort of agree with this but I also think hes received enough mentoring and its time for him to deliver success..
5-6 years head coach of brissie and 10 years under hinkely and Port have had plenty of finals footy action during his time there.
Voss now should be in a position to mentor our assistant coaches.
Hes is the leader of the coaching group.
dylan_mike1
Senior List
- Apr 10, 2021
- 152
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We don't need someone with tactical nous. Our system works perfectly: kick to the pocket, then kick long down the line where the opposition is already waiting—because they know our plan better than we do. Wait for the turnover, and the ball gets kicked back to a loose player as ours are out of position... rinse and repeat. Another tactic is holding onto the ball , allowing the opposition to set their defensive structures. Then, we kick a short sideways pass, hold onto the ball again, rinse repeat.... Another favourite tactic is when kicking into the forward line , kick it long into congestion or on a 3 vs one. When that doesn't work, just keep doing it —because maybe we'll get lucky. How many coaches do we have to come up with such a brilliant plan?
CarmenSandiego
Team Captain
- Apr 23, 2024
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A few tidbits about Voss, fairly in line with what Soapy V has been saying.
Source is ok, bit of 3rd hand but thought worth sharing.
Apparently refused to listen to Russell, just absolutely flogged the players.
Doesn’t listen to Assistants either.
Was agreed at the start of the year he would stop micro managing but after 2 rounds took over again.
Extremely strong personality so is hard for Lloyd and others to manage him.
Overall he (the source) sounded pretty concerned and said Voss is under serious pressure next year. He has some inside info about Geelong and said Chris Scott was the same until Hocking came in pulled him into line.
Sounds like we need a new footy boss as I assume Lloyd has lost control a bit.
Hope we can fix it.
Source is ok, bit of 3rd hand but thought worth sharing.
Apparently refused to listen to Russell, just absolutely flogged the players.
Doesn’t listen to Assistants either.
Was agreed at the start of the year he would stop micro managing but after 2 rounds took over again.
Extremely strong personality so is hard for Lloyd and others to manage him.
Overall he (the source) sounded pretty concerned and said Voss is under serious pressure next year. He has some inside info about Geelong and said Chris Scott was the same until Hocking came in pulled him into line.
Sounds like we need a new footy boss as I assume Lloyd has lost control a bit.
Hope we can fix it.
Seems like with each "rumour" it continues to contradict the last bit of information
I guess it's not surprising, as layers can be added or omitted as it pases through each set of lips
I guess it's not surprising, as layers can be added or omitted as it pases through each set of lips
CarmenSandiego
Team Captain
- Apr 23, 2024
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Purple monkey dishwasher.
I don’t know the Chris Scott comments or Voss being under pressure but couldn’t agree more with other comments, Been on going most of the year
As for Lloyd, I don’t know him but gives the impression of tail wagging the dog
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So, it wasn't Russell's fault, it was Voss's fault
Or assistants, maybe Power, perhaps Lloyd, perhaps Cook, surely Sayers
What's interesting, 100% it's not one single player, perhaps, maybe
Not directed at you, just the contradicting information that's going around at the moment
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Yes but the ride from hiring clarko to rebuild to flag, was linear.
Sure they dropped back before the next run.
But, they still had YoY improvement before that first flag right?
If we are comparing to us, the 66game rebuild started 2015...
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BolshyAust
Debutant
- Sep 21, 2020
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Very hard to judge this year, given how few Carlton listed players he was able to coach due to injuries.
I don't get this rhetoric, have we not improved each year since 2018?
