Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[JustaBattler]

What do you like about Voss? I dont want him sacked, i want him to improve but when i think about what i like about him I dont come up with much except hardness and staying the course where the latter could be good or bad.

I'd choose him over Fagan, Beverage and Hinkley of the top 8 coaches.

I think he has got the most out of the list we have and the injury run we've copped. The only thing I dont like about him is I expected the team to play with a lot more mongrel by now- too much fair play for my liking but one cant have everything I guess.

I'm realistic about what the game plan and style can be given the players we have - you cant make a thoroughbred out of a donkey and we have a few of those running around.

 

[jpfalvo]

I think he has got the most out of the list we have and the injury run we've copped. The only thing I dont like about him is I expected the team to play with a lot more mongrel by now- too much fair play for my liking but one cant have everything I guess.

I'm realistic about what the game plan and style can be given the players we have - you cant make a thoroughbred out of a donkey and we have a few of those running around.

Point about mongrel, was my expectation too.

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[Blue_Fusion]

I quoted your numbers on Teague's results - not Boltons- it is arithmetic mate ie the simple point is the percentage improvement based on your referenced index of achievement.

I also provided some way variables to consider in any polynomial - you wish to use to include in any analysis and a definitive constant - for the amusement of people who get simple math.

Look I'm as disappointed as anyone re how the season panned out and I too will be looking for improvement next year.

As for my views on Voss- they stay the same - I prefer to see coaches see out their contracts and I factor in player availability as well as the actual list as a whole in determining what my expectations would be for a season - I dont hope and pray nro do I bray if the hope or prayer inst answered.

Simple fact is Carlton doesn't have a top4 top22 players list - it may have e a top 4 top10 players- but nowhere close to top4 bottom six players- and that is with everyone fit. Take out half the top players for Carlton and we are middling - just like any other team would be.

However if people get solace out of thinking Voss is a crap coach - they can go for it- just dont expect people like me who look at things with a tad less emotion and entitlement to join the pitchfork brigade - Voss is no Malthouse.

Fair enough, but point still stands whether comparing to Teague or Bolton, the list was in a much stronger position for Voss tenure. Teague didn't have prime Charlie Curnow and TDK for example...

fwiw, I've never once advocated to sack Voss... but I'm a realist and I know the time will come eventually.

We all want him to succeed... but I think the pressure has got to him this season. We can see it with selections and the players taking the "safe" option of going up the wing to Pittonet...

As I pointed out earlier... this season saw a lot of similarities with leaking goals like we did under Teague. If anything, I'd want us to make changes to the assistants... Clarke has been mid coach for too long, Russell as forwards coach is baffling... as is Hamill as back line coach...

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Vodka?

I think it's still early to tell, but the club would be looking at a top 4 finish next year, especially if we are targeting mature aged players.

Vodka. Urghhh. San Giovese from Emilia Romagna.
I like Voss and want him to succeed however he'll have to change his approach, irrespective of who is recruited.

 

[Arr0w]

People wanted Kingsley right? Gave up big margins both finals, supporters would livid

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Teagues gift defined as how many goals in a row?

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5

 

[carlton_99]

Kingsley is a very good coach but this last fortnight just shows how much of the game is above the shoulders. Giants like us build their game off pressure and intensity - if it's not sustained for something close to four quarters you can get found out in a competition this even regardless of your tactics

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Kingsley is a very good coach but this last fortnight just shows how much of the game is above the shoulders. Giants like us build their game off pressure and intensity - if it's not sustained for something close to four quarters you can get found out in a competition this even regardless of your tactics

Just shows how remarkable that Tigers team was. Ran over teams through pressure year on year for half a decade until the AFL changed the rules to stop them.

 

[carlton_99]

Just shows how remarkable that Tigers team was. Ran over teams through pressure year on year for half a decade until the AFL changed the rules to stop them.

Exactly - far from the most talented team as well. Every player just fulfilled their role 95% of the time and they never looked like the hunted always the hunter even after the first two GFs.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Kingsley is a very good coach but this last fortnight just shows how much of the game is above the shoulders. Giants like us build their game off pressure and intensity - if it's not sustained for something close to four quarters you can get found out in a competition this even regardless of your tactics

Not much Kingsley could do about the play on behind... or some of the very questionable ump calls...

Still.. they should've got the job done from 44 points up.

Momentum is huge in the game now more than ever. I said in the match thread that this season, we've seen teams start well, then they lose the momentum and end up losing. It's happened more times this season than I can recall any other year.

 

[carlton_99]

Not much Kingsley could do about the play on behind... or some of the very questionable ump calls...

Still.. they should've got the job done from 44 points up.

Momentum is huge in the game now more than ever. I said in the match thread that this season, we've seen teams start well, then they lose the momentum and end up losing. It's happened more times this season than I can recall any other year.

Exactly coaching is important but I still feel like the players do get let off a bit on here with the coaching excuse.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Exactly coaching is important but I still feel like the players do get let off a bit on here with the coaching excuse.

The players that get let off are usually the ones that have runs on the board.

Some have copped it on here too though...

 

[Arr0w]

Exactly coaching is important but I still feel like the players do get let off a bit on here with the coaching excuse.

Absolutely. The same revolving door of players are mentioned, but a greater number of players are letting themselves down in many of our poor performance

 

[carlton_99]

The players that get let off are usually the ones that have runs on the board.

Some have copped it on here too though...

Not individuals was more talking about the group in general - pressure and intensity is never on one player.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not individuals was more talking about the group in general - pressure and intensity is never on one player.

Definitely...

That pressure rating in the first half last week was unacceptable and I mentioned in the autopsy thread that the players must be held accountable for it.

There were murmurs though, that back in 2022 Voss got stuck into them and well... they didn't like it very much...

 

[carlton_99]

Definitely...

That pressure rating in the first half last week was unacceptable and I mentioned in the autopsy thread that the players must be held accountable for it.

There were murmurs though, that back in 2022 Voss got stuck into them and well... they didn't like it very much...

Big one was tackles inside 50 for me. We were number #1 in the AFL for the stat for the vast majority of the season but dropped off badly in the last two months.

Average tackles inside forward 50
OR to Round 16 - 13.93 per game (Team record: 11W 4L)
Round 17 to EF - 8.56 per game (Team record: 2W 7L)
Overall average: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)

For reference Port finished the season #1 in this stat with an average of 13.1 per game and North finished 18th with an average of 8.4 per game.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Big one was tackles inside 50 for me. We were number #1 in the AFL for the stat for the vast majority of the season but dropped off badly in the last two months.

Average tackles inside forward 50
OR to Round 16 - 13.93 per game (Team record: 11W 4L)
Round 17 to EF - 8.56 per game (Team record: 2W 7L)
Overall average: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)

For reference Port finished the season #1 in this stat with an average of 13.1 per game and North finished 18th with an average of 8.4 per game.

That's a crazy drop off!

 

[carlton_99]

That's a crazy drop off!

Even worse when you notice that in that 9 game patch at the end 35 tackles came in two weeks against the Eagles and Saints. Drop those out and in the remaining 7 games we averaged just 6 tackles i50. We went 1W 6L in those games

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Exactly - far from the most talented team as well. Every player just fulfilled their role 95% of the time and they never looked like the hunted always the hunter even after the first two GFs.

I believe they created a chaos game plan well before the competition and drafted for that purpose. Took many years for other teams to adjust. Credit to them though. Why can’t Carlton be innovative and take risks?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I believe they created a chaos game plan well before the competition and drafted for that purpose. Took many years for other teams to adjust. Credit to them though. Why can’t Carlton be innovative and take risks?

This is something that Sam Mitchell spoke about too...

He mentioned that you need to do something different to get ahead of the pack... took a few years but it looks like it's working...

 

[JustaBattler]

Neither coach won or lost that game- much the same as any game ever played - the game was won by the PLAYERS on the ground winning their contests and kicking clutch goals.

revelatory stuff.

 

[JustaBattler]

I believe they created a chaos game plan well before the competition and drafted for that purpose. Took many years for other teams to adjust. Credit to them though. Why can’t Carlton be innovative and take risks?

Richmond were a lot better than 'just' a 'chaos' game - they brought back teh run from half back game and they had small forwards that could find space and kick goals - and Dustin Martin - the best one on one player in the game.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Even worse when you notice that in that 9 game patch at the end 35 tackles came in two weeks against the Eagles and Saints. Drop those out and in the remaining 7 games we averaged just 6 tackles i50. We went 1W 6L in those games

Do you have link to the raw data?

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Richmond were a lot better than 'just' a 'chaos' game - they brought back teh run from half back game and they had small forwards that could find space and kick goals - and Dustin Martin - the best one on one player in the game.

Did I say it was just chaos?

The surge game style was the primary driver of their success. Along with manufacturing a spare behind the ball at all times, high speed half forwards that would stream up to the contest then race ahead in offence, Dustin Martin as the primary fwd target that would win or halve every contest, and locking the ball in with repeat entries using a high press.

The point being that their leaders were at the cutting edge of modern football. They drafted and recruited for a game plan that changed the way afl is played.

Do you have confidence Voss and his brains trust will be able to pull something like that off?

From my viewing, Voss is married to a hybrid game style consisting of combative contested ball dominance and ‘keeping’s off’ uncontested marking when we tire. The latter is extremely easy to nullify whilst contested ball/clearance dominance is dependent on fit, star players that will inevitably break down. In turn, there becomes a reliance on senior players at the cost youth development.

Pray tell, enlighten us to why you believe Michael Voss and his band of merry men have what it takes to build a dynasty.

 

[katmanblue]

I think he has got the most out of the list we have and the injury run we've copped. The only thing I dont like about him is I expected the team to play with a lot more mongrel by now- too much fair play for my liking but one cant have everything I guess.

I'm realistic about what the game plan and style can be given the players we have - you cant make a thoroughbred out of a donkey and we have a few of those running around.

I want our small forwards to practise dropping the knees and raising their arm to draw high frees more regularly.

Want our big boys to stick a knee into whoever is in front of them.

Sick of playing "the right way" and constantly getting upstaged by those that don't.

We have to make up that difference before getting to a level playing field.



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