St Kilda President Andrew Bassat tees off on the AFL draft system, specifically father/son and the Northern Academies

[Pistol Night]

Nice job of deflecting.

I don’t care that clubs have access to academies or father sons.

Pay market value - that’s the issue

Who determines it?

 

[Elixuh]

That's not true.

Which part?

 

[Toump Ass]

Collingwood completely botched its salary cap management a few seasons ago but managed to easily get out of it and then won a flag, because they were able to draft All Australian midfielders under father son rorts (and the AFL allowed them to pay Dayne Beams outside their "completely botched" salary cap )

Fixed.

 

[Handsuper47]

Isn't the whole point of academies to grow the game in areas that aren't predominately AFL? I don't have a problem with it, Victorian clubs are more likely to support players in country areas so they can be more appealing to their club when the draft comes around and we've had the benefit of having the game down here for a much longer time. They don't and it wasn't that long ago a bunch of players from Brisbane wanted to leave.

When it comes to Father/Son picks everyone is thinking about Ashcroft and how he played in the Grand Final, yet they are ignoring another Father/Son that also played - Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

. His father played for Sydney. Sydney passed on him. Now he's won two grand finals AGAINST Sydney. Not all clubs will get it right and not all players will turn out the way people think they will.

We're not getting a "completely" fair AFL. It ain't happening. Even if you removed academies and F/S, you'll still get players not wanting to play for clubs. You'll still have list managers with no idea. Still have high picks that turn into duds. Still have low picks that turn into stars. It makes much more sense to make the best out of the situation rather than looking for something that's 'perfect'.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

It's easy to attack a clubs drafting that hasn't had the luxury of buying in players such as Daniher, Dunkley and Neale. Then to be handed a Ashcroft.

Seems he has a very valid point.

Our trading over that early period was very strategical, we targeted very good players in Neale and Charlie who were both behind Fyfe and Betts and viewed in their shadows somewhat. Both were also under contract at the time, which arguable raised their trade cost to us, but also limited interest from other clubs, making them selecting us a lot easier decision. Also over this early period we actively moved Leuenberger, Redden and Rockliff on, which was viewed by many as the nucleus of our list moving forward.

Daniher personality didn’t suit the Melbourne lifestyle, we identified a need and an environment that he could thrive in, his signing was also viewed by most as a very risky decision.
By the time Dunkley had came on the radar we had a reputation of making deal happens, and was a large part why he selected us and not went back to an Essendon style situation he experienced earlier.

Our trading hasn’t been a luxury that fell in our lap, it’s been a very strategic approach and we are reaping the rewards now.

 

[kickazz]

The Saints, North and Bulldogs will forever be pissing into the wind.

Just gotta make the best of the situation, which I think includes:

• Not hiring Lyon - get a coach with a fresh, exciting style that is marketable to TV.
• They must lobby hard for home finals at Docklands in week 1 at least. It wasn't long ago that finals there was normal

But then again, the real issue is free agency, it was supposed to help these teams just as much, but what a crock that turned out to be

 

[Nvent]

Which part?

Crossing players names off. Just not true.

 

[Elixuh]

Crossing players names off. Just not true.

There are 100% players we haven't drafted because they don't want to move interstate or are otherwise seen as a massive flight risk. We may still have them on our draft ranking list but we don't draft them.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

I mean...he's got a point. The reigning premier's gonna be receiving the second number one draft pick in the last three years. And people wonder why the bottom teams aren't getting any better.

 

[Nvent]

There are 100% players we haven't drafted because they don't want to move interstate or are otherwise seen as a massive flight risk. We may still have them on our draft ranking list but we don't draft them.

Name them and proof that this happened.

 

[JackFlash]

Father and Son must remain, but the way they select them should change, bids should be on what their draft worth is...for example Ashcroft in s number2 on the power rankings.

 

[bergholt]

My view is the competition is so unequal and will never be equal that the only way to bridge it is to create bespoke inequalities geared towards certain teams. It'll never be perfect but this idea of creating equality in the traditional way is misguided IMO.

You might be right, but currently there are random bespoke inequalities geared towards certain teams who are generally more historically successful. (See my data earlier in the thread.) Getting rid of that doesn’t make it less equal.

 

[bergholt]

We're not getting a "completely" fair AFL. It ain't happening. Even if you removed academies and F/S, you'll still get players not wanting to play for clubs. You'll still have list managers with no idea. Still have high picks that turn into duds. Still have low picks that turn into stars. It makes much more sense to make the best out of the situation rather than looking for something that's 'perfect'.

Completely agree it’ll never be perfectly fair. I don’t know why that’s an argument though to keep systems which make it LESS fair.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

If Father/Sons are a convention available to all clubs then it's fair.

If the cost being cheaper is something all clubs can benefit from then it is equally fair.

Both come down to luck more than anything.

 

[bergholt]

If Father/Sons are a convention available to all clubs then it's fair.

If the cost being cheaper is something all clubs can benefit from then it is equally fair.

Both come down to luck more than anything.

Nah, it’s a partially fair process leading to unfair outcomes. It would be equally fair if they were available in an open draft - every club could draft them.

 

[Handsuper47]

Completely agree it’ll never be perfectly fair. I don’t know why that’s an argument though to keep systems which make it LESS fair.

Because I'm completely in favour of making the best out of what you got, instead of complaining about why things can't be the way you want them to be. Look at Richmond's recent premierships - no father sons, no use of academies, the only priority pick was Deledio who left before we got success.. and you can see how it turned out. Why can't St Kilda do something similar? You've had enough times at the draft.

 

[bergholt]

Because I'm completely in favour of making the best out of what you got, instead of complaining about why things can't be the way you want them to be. Look at Richmond's recent premierships - no father sons, no use of academies, the only priority pick was Deledio who left before we got success.. and you can see how it turned out. Why can't St Kilda do something similar? You've had enough times at the draft.

Sure? But the AFL change rules all the time, so complaining is an equally valid part of the strategy. The rest of the club is focusing on making the best of the situation; the President has no role in that, so him being an advocate is totally legit imo.

 

[kickazz]

Because I'm completely in favour of making the best out of what you got, instead of complaining about why things can't be the way you want them to be. Look at Richmond's recent premierships - no father sons, no use of academies, the only priority pick was Deledio who left before we got success.. and you can see how it turned out. Why can't St Kilda do something similar? You've had enough times at the draft.

Complaining / lobbying for better treatment is one of many ways to make the best of what you've got.

Do you think the AFL gave finals to non-Vic clubs without them fighting for it?

 

[SeaOfFire]

If the change was made, that the premier paid market value for academy and F/S selections, how, exactly, does this benefit St Kilda?

 

[Philhawk]

Remove father son kids from being eligible for academies for a start. That’s purely idiotic.

 

[Philhawk]

If the change was made, that the premier paid market value for academy and F/S selections, how, exactly, does this benefit St Kilda?

Is this a joke or for real?

 

[SeaOfFire]

Is this a joke or for real?

It's not a joke.

They've had access to early draft picks for how many seasons?

They live in the heartland of the code.

They have a long history with brand recognition.

They came within a kick of a flag 14 years ago.

So, I ask the question - the Lions pay full price for Levi Ashcroft.....this benefits them how?

 

[Philhawk]

It's not a joke.

They've had access to early draft picks for how many seasons?

They live in the heartland of the code.

They have a long history with brand recognition.

They came within a kick of a flag 14 years ago.

So, I ask the question - the Lions pay full price for Levi Ashcroft.....this benefits them how?

We allegedly play a fully equalized sport that includes a salary cap and a draft.

In what world does does it not help the Saints if a competitor is forced to pay more than 18, 56, 69 + other crap picks to get the best kid in the land?

Guess what - there’s a world they can’t match. Therefore the value of the Saints pick 7 is worth even more.

It’s blindingly obvious.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Every club has access to F/S selections.

Yep and it's not the fault of the cats lions pies and dogs that the saints can't produce any worthy f/s. Spuds will produce spuds I guess

 

[Tom14]

Name them and proof that this happened.

Didn't end up an issue for us but Bailey Smith 100% made clear he wasn't interested in playing outside of victoria.