St Kilda, what's missing?

[Plugger35]

A Full Back
A Center Half Back
A Center Half Forward

A full forward, Roo will never be the same.

Another inside midfielder now Bally is in the black and white, his type are almost the most important player in cut throat finals, Hayes is not playing as good because he no longer has the work horse taking all the punishment.

I know the saints fans will say we beat you.. Well done, but its funny when you leave a game thinking you won, even though the score board doesn't reflect it..

I think the Bulldogs and Geelong are better sides too. Possibly the pies, we will know after round 10 when the good sides settle.

Oh and culture and history are against them. The saints are not a side that wins premierships, they never have been, have only won 1 flag by 1 point against us in 66.. So the saints have it all against them.. Will be an interesting year, they need to deliver.

If you walked away from that game last Friday night thinking you had won then you really are deluded. We beat you convincingly in the end, especially considering the injuries we had. You don't just fluke a 28 point victory.

Also it sounds like wishful thinking on your part that Riewoldt will never be the same player. The medical advice suggests otherwise. He will be back to torment your side again in the finals if we meet again.

 

[grogan]

a flag

 

[winty]

They need Kosi to stand up at the business end of the season. He was virtually unsighted in the finals. If he could pluck a few grabs and kick a few goals, it would make opposition defenders think twice about which key defender needs a chop out by going third man up in a marking contest.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Last year all they 'missed' was easy shots on goal, other than that they clearly outplayed the Cats for a half.

They are my tip to win the flag, the Collingwood game just reinforced they have quality all over the park, even in the absence of their best player

 

[grenwolf2684]

A Full Back
A Center Half Back
A Center Half Forward

A full forward, Roo will never be the same.

Another inside midfielder now Bally is in the black and white, his type are almost the most important player in cut throat finals, Hayes is not playing as good because he no longer has the work horse taking all the punishment.

I know the saints fans will say we beat you.. Well done, but its funny when you leave a game thinking you won, even though the score board doesn't reflect it..

I think the Bulldogs and Geelong are better sides too. Possibly the pies, we will know after round 10 when the good sides settle.

Oh and culture and history are against them. The saints are not a side that wins premierships, they never have been, have only won 1 flag by 1 point against us in 66.. So the saints have it all against them.. Will be an interesting year, they need to deliver.

It's interesting to see Collingwood supporters question St Kilda. Particulary the culture and history statements. St Kilda could teach you things not the other way around. They just needed to kick straight in the first of the grandfinal. That's all it was. Simple thing to rectify, they just have to make the herculean task of getting to another grand final to do it.

 

[The Big League]

I'm very interested to see the saints play over the next month or so. This whole "saint's footy" that they have been sprooking since Reiwoldt went down will really be in the spotlight.

 

[demonben]

I hope im not the first to say a premiership

 

[Consumed]

If I was to be honest, there was a heavy reliance on Roo towards the end of the year, especially in finals. I am happy with the early signs this year, accuracy and goal spread have shown signs of significant improvement.

Had Roo gone down last year, I would of been worried, this year not so much.

This is time for the boys to dispell the myth 'No Roo, no St Kilda' and learn to be less predictable at the same time.

Last year's qualifying final showed just how hard it is to even get to grand final, let alone winning one. I hope the boys get the opportunity to go deep into September, a little older, and a little wiser.

PS - The Lenny Hayes comment was just silly

Good post.
I was thinking the same thing earlier. It could be a very good time for the Saints team to be without Roo. They collectively get to show how good they can be without him.

Win a majority of their games, which I think they will, maintain a spot in the Top 4 and when he does return they will be very hard to stop in finals.

Could be a blessing in disguise in the larger scheme of things. It does suck for a player to put in that much effort since losing a GF, only to have a serious injury stand in the way of doing something redemptive about it.

What's missing for the Saints at the moment; earlier I said culture, but the Geelong poster got it more accurately, History.

I don't think you can underestimate how critical past glory can be for an entire football club. Expectations are completely different depending how much glory and successful history can be drawn on. Although it doesn't seem to matter too much when this history was achieved.

 

[TheSaviour]

Geelong will be lucky to make the four. Window Closed.

 

[stfan]

Geelong will be lucky to make the four. Window Closed.

Why do you say that?

Unless their hunger goes they still have a good list. Maybe not quite as good as it's peak, but still good and not that much below last years.

Pies have some major flaws.
Hawks have a bad injury run. A short defence and poor rucks are goint to haunt them.

Swans I see as pushing up.
PA may, but there are many questoin marks.
Freo have had some good early season form. But two of their opponents are that much.

Cats I would still see as Top 4.

 

[dan warna]

Accuracy in front of goals killed us in the GF last year.

see Collingwood last week...

We competed with Geelong everywhere except where it counted.

The game plan countered Geelongs advantages, they had greater speed, marginally better skills, we had marginally more discipline (talking pencil shavings here), and blocked up as much of Geelongs run as we could.

Our game plan probably took a fraction more out of us and geelong are equally fit so they had a bit more run at the end.

Basically when we kicked shite in the first half it allowed geelong to come back over us.

Had we kicked 8.2 instead of 3.7 or whatever the psychological edge, plus scoreboard pressure would have been marginally different.

Geelong won because they didn't mess up in front of goals.

Aside from that despite different strengths and weaknesses it was a bloody good game and the better team won.

Can't blame umpires, the coaches etc.

we shanked sitters and deserved our outcome

 

[Sttew]

Well last year they were missing approximately one late goal in the GF... and if they'd got it we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Excuse me, how about a goal in the last quarter? Saints were kept goalless in the 4Q and you can't win a GF like that.

Saints 2010 is << 2009. No Riewoldt. No Ball. No Lovett (who was meant to provide the leg speed that was missing) And, Zac Dawson will be exposed this year.

Saints will still be up there, and maybe the "hunger" factor might have got them over the last hurdle before the Riewoldt injury, etc, but....I'm doubtful

 

[KardiniaPark]

Nothing is missing , it was just way too windy for Roo on the GF day. Seeing that Riewoldt probably wont be back this year expect the Saints to go further.

windy AND wet. Im surprised they didn't call the game off.

 

[Catsace]

Accuracy in front of goals killed us in the GF last year.

see Collingwood last week...

We competed with Geelong everywhere except where it counted.

The game plan countered Geelongs advantages, they had greater speed, marginally better skills, we had marginally more discipline (talking pencil shavings here), and blocked up as much of Geelongs run as we could.

Our game plan probably took a fraction more out of us and geelong are equally fit so they had a bit more run at the end.

Basically when we kicked shite in the first half it allowed geelong to come back over us.

Had we kicked 8.2 instead of 3.7 or whatever the psychological edge, plus scoreboard pressure would have been marginally different.

Geelong won because they didn't mess up in front of goals.

Aside from that despite different strengths and weaknesses it was a bloody good game and the better team won.

Can't blame umpires, the coaches etc.

we shanked sitters and deserved our outcome

An extremely fair and honest post. The game was exhausting to even watch on TV as i paced around, rode the bumps and seemed to almost live every contest. I found myself saying at around 3/4 time, that if we (Geelong) lost, at least we've left nothing on the park. St.Kilda aleft nothing on the park either, and we took the chances we got in the last quarter and eked out a win.

St.Kilda are a strong side, and will still be up there this year. Only queries may be if the ruckmen can stay fit and fresh enough for the whole year, although if Kosi can recapture the form of 3-4 seasons ago when Reiwoldt was out that more more than suffice as back-up. Lovett's absence is not really an issue as he essentially was never at St.Kilda playing wise.

But all the Saints can do is make sure they give themselves the best chance come finals time, to get up there and make the Grand Final. As a Cats fan, i sort of think the longer and more often you can get your head up to play the Grand Final, you have to win one eventually!

Mind you the Hawk fan did touch upon something i did feel as the Prelimiary finals rolled around last year, or even the top-4. Geelong, Saints, Pies, Dogs. Geelong's recent flag in '07 and great Preliminary final record (7 wins out of 9 since 1989) made me feel that we had the 'edge' over the other sides. St.Kilda almost made a fool of that saying, but could it be that intangible that Geelong had climbed the mountain in 2007, and ethereal advantage maybe guided Geelong home at the death?

One other thing, Geelong had narrow wins late in the year over Hawthorn, Sydney and Adelaide. That knowledge of prevailing in a close one also may have helped.

But personally if St.Kilda make the Grand Final this year, they would have to be a great chance of winning all things being equal.

 

[Ricmel]

They need Kosi to stand up at the business end of the season. He was virtually unsighted in the finals. If he could pluck a few grabs and kick a few goals, it would make opposition defenders think twice about which key defender needs a chop out by going third man up in a marking contest.

I think that is a pretty good point. Kosi has become a bit of a forgotten man. Hopefully Roos absence will give him the opportunity to stamp his authority. If ever they both fired at once I think we'd be unstoppable. Sadly it has happened very rarely.

 

[Jimbo88]

As another poster touched on, I think we had an unhealthy focus on Reiwoldt being are target up forward last year.
Although the Reiwoldt injury sucks, I think it may be a blessing in disguise in that now are mids will need to kick a couple more goals as a group each match. Hopefully this means that when Roo comes back at the end of the year we will not be so Roo focused and have a better spread of goal kickers heading into the finals.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I wished the Cats played "Saints Footy". Would be unstoppable.

 

[stfan]

Saints 2010 is << 2009. No Riewoldt. No Ball. No Lovett

1/ Lovett actually did not play for the saints in 2009
2/ No Ball... however in most games in the last two years he was fringe at best. One or more of Armitage, Peake, Steven or Geary has added mass and is much stronger) will cover him easily enough and of course Goddard is now mainly a midfielder and so that covers Ball in spades.
3/ No Roo. Yes for now. But this thread is about finals. He will be back for the finals with one plus of being well rested from his knee Tendonitis.

Other losses. Well Max. But he had little impact on 2009 and so in terms of your assertion is not relevant.

In 2010 Gwilt has already stepped up. The Saints were lacking a player of his build and footskills and so his improvement is most welcome. He has also freed up Goddard to play midfield.

Zac has started the season slowly and that is a concern. But he was ill and loss weight. so as he builds up he will probably regain touch. However with the two sa's across HB, Zac is onlya support defender.

Wildcards:
1/ Jesse Smith. Resumes in a couple of weeks. If he comes could he is a genuinely good player.

2/ Stanley. This guy will be a gun. Just a matter of when. He may blossom this year, or it may take another year.

 

[Hens Hall]

Now on a more serious note.

Firstly there is no such thing as a "perfect team". Never has and never will be.

However on St Kilda's Shopping List to be better:

• a true medium forward. we have not had one since Hamill. Many have been tried and so far no one has stood up. Consequently the Saints make do with 3 smalls and two talls
• a slightly better ruck. with Gardiner and King the Saints have a solid ruck division, but nota great one. However Gardiner on his day can still be very good. He is currently quite variable though. However aginst the other likely GF teams it is only really the Cats with Ottens who have an edge.

Most other boxes are ticked. Sure for example Zac as a FB is only average, but with the two tall Sam's across the HB line that is not a biggie.

Midfield. While the Cat's have the edge. The saints midield is pretty darn good too.

Now back on that medium forward.
Pleasing to Saints fans this year has been the marked improvement of Gwilt. a truism in footy is that players take about 50 games to get sorted and this seems to be the case with Gwilt too.
his stepping up has freed up Goddard to play asa true midfielder who will rotate through the forward line too. This is likely to iprove both the Saints forward line and midfield.

Noticeable too this season has been that the way the Saints enter the forward line is different, with at times some Pagon's Paddock elements and not just focussed on roo either. Very good space has been left for a variety of rotating players to run into in addition to the key forwards. This has straightened up the Saints on goal and has also resulted in more goals from a greater spread with the midfield now really contributing. (Very handy to at present with Roo out for three months).

Now no one likes to losea true champion likie Ro. But 3 months of playing without him is going to really hone scoring goals through others. This will be a plus once Roo returns.

Experience:

It can do no harm that most of our key players now have at least one GF under their belt. A reasonable number have two or more.

Not really related to this thread but...

The Hawks of the 80's probably had the closest thing to a perfect team, great defense, mids and forwards at all levels.

The best since then has been Brisbane which also had a similar set up.

sorry for the tangent but im knackered and enjoying a nice german pilsner

 

[stfan]

Not really related to this thread but...

The Hawks of the 80's probably had the closest thing to a perfect team, great defense, mids and forwards at all levels.

The best since then has been Brisbane which also had a similar set up.

sorry for the tangent but im knackered and enjoying a nice german pilsner

From memory the Hawks rucks were average though.

The Lions also had average rucks, but Matthew made the most of them with a bash and crash approach which his exceptional midfield was able to exploit.

 

[Vdubs]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Incentive-yes
Defence-the best
Mids-close to the best
Rucks-more than adequate
Key Forwards-Kosi will rise to the challenge, Milne & Schneider, Goddard, perhaps Fisher, then, Roo returns to put icing on the cake
Coach-excellent
X-Factors-Goddard, Smith, what about this Irish recruit?
Pace-maybe a slight concern
Experience-perfect
Depth -the best
I don't see any weakness

 

[stfan]

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
, what about this Irish recruit?

tommy Walsh is coming along nicely.
Is now playing CHB/FB to lean the game with Sandringham firsts.

However has only played about 5 games of footy in his life and even though his skills and marking is quite good already (takes some fearsome one grab marks) he struggles with reading the play (hence why is now playing back).

He impresses everyone with his rapid improvement, but realistically is more of a chance next year than this year.

 

[the emergency]

A Full Back

Fair, Dawson's been in rotten form, but he's our FB

A Center Half Back

S. Fisher, B. Goddard & J. Blake

A Center Half Forward

Riewoldt. while he's injured though, Goddard, Fisher or Blake.

A full forward, Roo will never be the same.

Koschitzke, Riewoldt never played full forward, and they said the same thing when he busted his collarbone twice

Another inside midfielder now Bally is in the black and white, his type are almost the most important player in cut throat finals, Hayes is not playing as good because he no longer has the work horse taking all the punishment.

Armitage. Hayes is as good as he has ever been

I know the saints fans will say we beat you.. Well done, but its funny when you leave a game thinking you won, even though the score board doesn't reflect it..

Then think of this, we were missing our 2 best forwards in Riewoldt and Koschitzke, and our best backman in Fisher for about a quarter. 5 minutes of our best footy in that last quarter and we kicked about 5 and absolutely blew your mob away.

I think the Bulldogs and Geelong are better sides too. Possibly the pies, we will know after round 10 when the good sides settle.

You're entitled to your own opinion

Oh and culture and history are against them. The saints are not a side that wins premierships, they never have been, have only won 1 flag by 1 point against us in 66.. So the saints have it all against them.. Will be an interesting year, they need to deliver.

History? 52 years and Collingwood and St. Kilda have both won a flag each.

 

[Vdubs]

Today is an example of why Saints might go through totally undefeated

 

[randyzany]

VEEDUBS are you sure you're not a Saints supporter? cos readin' through some of your posts in this thread you sure sound like it.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, just come out of the closet already.