Star Wars Star Wars - General Discussion / Legends / Comics

[JackOutback]

Sorry I'm not denying that the EU was very inconsistent, I'm highlighting the fact that the NuCanon was meant to be far more consistent but it's just as choppy.

Compare some masterpieces like Traitor and Shatterpoint by Matthew Stover, or Darth Plagueis by Luceno and there's just simply nothing on that level in the new canon.

I think the key issue with the NuCanon is that the books are predominantly tie ins. Think of the Jedi: Survivor and Princess and the Scoundrel which are tie ins for a video game and a hotel, Black Spire tying into the theme park, New Dawn tying into Rebels. A lot of books have been one-shots focussing on a character (Phasma, Tarkin, Thrawn, Inquisitor, Mace Windu, etc.). The common issue between the two being they come off as a directive to an author "Write a story about this place/person/thing" rather than "Hey [Author X] we like your work, what do you want to write about in the SW Universe? Does it fit into our vision and tell a compelling story?"

Add to that the fact that all major characters and events are perpetually off the table in case a TV show or director wants to cover something they did in a particular time period, you just get a revolving door of new casts meaning you never actually connect with them and therefore have no investment in their story. It's actually why having a cohesive canon has its set backs because Disney are terrified of having anything meaningful happen 'off screen' as 90% of the audience won't read it. At least with the EU they could do basically whatever they wanted and then bend over backwards to fit into something presented on screen, rather than being too scared to try.

Yeah, wasn't having a go, just expanding on the idea of old canon vs new, and making the case that new canon probably hasn't has enough time to compare. But I agree the biggest impediment is the rise of new content on TV and the big screen preventing novels on key characters and timelines, with Star Trek experiencing the same issues. It's why we are getting a few more in the prequel era (Brotherhood, Master & Apprentice, The Living Force) because there's less likely to be era-defining content in that time. I reckon there's still plenty of post-ROTJ content to come that will depict major events in the timeline, but that said, I'd like to see some standalone adventures with Luke or Han, like they tried with Last Shot.

Agree with the issue of tie-ins, I just finished reading Battle Scars, that was pretty average. Princess and the Scoundrel was OK, the EU equivalent The Courtship of Princess Leia was pretty bad. I think Bloodline is the closest to being a top shelf book, I recall that being excellent. Probably new canon's biggest issue is not excelling yet, but I can't think of anything particularly turgid at least either.

 

[SM]

Yeah, wasn't having a go, just expanding on the idea of old canon vs new, and making the case that new canon probably hasn't has enough time to compare. But I agree the biggest impediment is the rise of new content on TV and the big screen preventing novels on key characters and timelines, with Star Trek experiencing the same issues. It's why we are getting a few more in the prequel era (Brotherhood, Master & Apprentice, The Living Force) because there's less likely to be era-defining content in that time. I reckon there's still plenty of post-ROTJ content to come that will depict major events in the timeline, but that said, I'd like to see some standalone adventures with Luke or Han, like they tried with Last Shot.

Agree with the issue of tie-ins, I just finished reading Battle Scars, that was pretty average. Princess and the Scoundrel was OK, the EU equivalent The Courtship of Princess Leia was pretty bad. I think Bloodline is the closest to being a top shelf book, I recall that being excellent. Probably new canon's biggest issue is not excelling yet, but I can't think of anything particularly turgid at least either.

Yeah I thought Battle Scars was awful. That novel is probably the key example I think of as the biggest issues the new canon has. At least Black Spire was a fun adventure read, and as you say Princess and the Scoundrel was ok - by virtue of including some known characters automatically made it more engaging - but Battle Scars, yeesh.

 

[JackOutback]

Yeah I thought Battle Scars was awful. That novel is probably the key example I think of as the biggest issues the new canon has. At least Black Spire was a fun adventure read, and as you say Princess and the Scoundrel was ok - by virtue of including some known characters automatically made it more engaging - but Battle Scars, yeesh.

Probably hurts that I have never played the game and so have no connection with the characters. I was judging it on its story merits alone and it came up severely lacking.

 

[SM]

Probably hurts that I have never played the game and so have no connection with the characters. I was judging it on its story merits alone and it came up severely lacking.

Think a few of the characters aren't even in the game (though I haven't played the second one) but the romance was created and resolved within about 100 pages so just meant there was no impact.

 

[Kellythatsit]

Because they're arrogant and not talented and have fallen victim to a sick twisted academic fantasy that diversity = important. There is also the argument that they do it intentionally to create a shield so that if they fail they can blame the fan base. "It's not my fault the show is bad - the fanbase are racist misogynists". That type of thinking is actually very common in major companies where management can get decision paralysis and take the approach that provides them the most protection rather than risking what will be the most successful. You don't usually see it in creative driver industries but it has become very prevalent in the post-Marvel world where these studious have become so much more of an assembly line than anything actually creative.

It’s an interesting take. Surely if what you were suggesting were true it would be reflected with plummeting interest and a diminishing fan base. Yet Star Wars and Marvel are consistently among the most popular franchises in the world. What gives?

Also, when exactly did Disney, the world’s largest entertainment corporation, known for its “stamp out the competition” ruthlessness suddenly stop being driven purely by the almighty $ and become the leading crusader for leftist ideologies and minority interests?

Perhaps there’s something else at play, do you think?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It’s an interesting take. Surely if what you were suggesting were true it would be reflected with plummeting interest and a diminishing fan base. Yet Star Wars and Marvel are consistently among the most popular franchises in the world. What gives?

Also, when exactly did Disney, the world’s largest entertainment corporation, known for its “stamp out the competition” ruthlessness suddenly stop being driven purely by the almighty $ and larger dividends for shareholders?

As has been brought to your attention before, major investment companies like BlackRock include obligations within their investment terms on their investee companies meeting certain standards regarding Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Companies, like Disney etc need to meet these standards to comply with their legal obligations. This, in combination with a professional field that has been well and truly sold on "diversity = strength" narrative are happy to ignore evidence to the contrary (such as increased fan backlash, diminishing box office returns and viewership) on the basis that "no, it's not me, the children must be wrong".

For your reference, this is the Disney co's share performance over the past 5 years.



The fact that they are down 25% on a 5 year basis despite the INSANE inflation we've had over the past two years is ludicrously poor performance for the company. Why investment companies like BlackRock have these obligations is another questions all together, you can follow it up the chain (i.e their major investors require it of them) or maybe individuals high up in BlackRock just believe in the cause, or maybe there is some other reason, that stuff tends into conspiracy territory so let's not go there and it doesn't impact the position at Disney in any event. Suffice to say, all we need to know is - Disney puts diversity over results, despite of the impact it is having on their business.

And Star Wars and Marvel are popular in spite of these influences and are still suffering from them. Both have been on a major decline since circa 2015 onwards, Star Wars from The Last Jedi and onwards and Marvel in the post Endgame era.

It's no coincidence that Star Wars and Marvel content have not commanded the attention of the public over the past half decade, with the biggest entertainment tentpoles we've had being the Dune franchise, Top Gun two, Barbie / Oppenheimer etc.

 

[Kellythatsit]

As has been brought to your attention before, major investment companies like BlackRock include obligations within their investment terms on their investee companies meeting certain standards regarding Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Companies, like Disney etc need to meet these standards to comply with their legal obligations. This, in combination with a professional field that has been well and truly sold on "diversity = strength" narrative are happy to ignore evidence to the contrary (such as increased fan backlash, diminishing box office returns and viewership) on the basis that "no, it's not me, the children must be wrong".

For your reference, this is the Disney co's share performance over the past 5 years.

View attachment 2029211

The fact that they are down 25% on a 5 year basis despite the INSANE inflation we've had over the past two years is ludicrously poor performance for the company. Why investment companies like BlackRock have these obligations is another questions all together, you can follow it up the chain (i.e their major investors require it of them) or maybe individuals high up in BlackRock just believe in the cause, or maybe there is some other reason, that stuff tends into conspiracy territory so let's not go there and it doesn't impact the position at Disney in any event. Suffice to say, all we need to know is - Disney puts diversity over results, despite of the impact it is having on their business.

And Star Wars and Marvel are popular in spite of these influences and are still suffering from them. Both have been on a major decline since circa 2015 onwards, Star Wars from The Last Jedi and onwards and Marvel in the post Endgame era.

It's no coincidence that Star Wars and Marvel content have not commanded the attention of the public over the past half decade, with the biggest entertainment tentpoles we've had being the Dune franchise, Top Gun two, Barbie / Oppenheimer etc.

LOL! Yes, Barbie is well known for its lack of diversity and inclusion. Certainly no message in that film to challenge the traditional patriarchy. Besides, It’s hard for Star Wars to compete at the box office when the last film was released 5 years ago. As for Marvel - well there are a variety of reasons that franchise has been in decline since Endgame. DEI would be the least of them.

Ok so now show the chart for the whole industry.

Here’s one:



You’ll note that this decline seems to be remarkably consistent across the entire industry. In fact Disney stock seems to follow the curve remarkably well.

Perhaps you’ve also noticed the closure of cinema chains? Or the decline of major music festivals? It’s almost as if there were some other significant factors like a global pandemic, massive rise in the cost of living, and general reluctance from people to go to cinemas. Or is it all down to your DEI bogeyman? Has the whole industry thrown financial success to the wind simply to prioritise equity and inclusion because it’s hip and cool and gives them a convenient out if the product is not up to scratch? Do companies like BlackRock not care about making return on their investment as long as minority groups are represented in a Star War? What about other shareholders who don’t have such scruples? They just keep investing because … ? Do you know how ludicrous this sounds to anyone with half a brain?

Perhaps there’s another reason for all this inclusion and representation?

 

[Exe Gesis]

Senator Tells Disney to Lawyer up After Leaked Exec Video Claims Company Doesn’t Hire “White Men”

And now Congress gets their say.

insidethemagic.net

 

[Exe Gesis]

From another article ...

The video may have broken the law, as California is a two-party consent state, and Giordano does not know he was being taped. He was also lured into the meeting under false pretenses.

Conservative “reporter” James O’Keefe apparently set up the meeting between Giordano and an unknown woman. The two met on a dating site with the express purpose of getting Giordano to talk about working for Disney

 

[JackOutback]

 

[SM]

View attachment 2029457

Haha I saw this on FB the other day and almost posted this.

When you watch Acolyte it'll all make sense.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Haha I saw this on FB the other day and almost posted this.

When you watch Acolyte it'll all make sense.

Being aligned with Jack Outback on a Star Wars issue is like a couple of Seagulls looking at each other in the Simpson desert. Neither of you should be there.

 

[SM]

Being aligned with Jack Outback on a Star Wars issue is like a couple of Seagulls looking at each other in the Simpson desert. Neither of you should be there.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[Exe Gesis]

On a related/unrelated note.... You can kind of understand a push for diversity when you have major creative voices like John Lasseter (and others) who have been shamed for abuse of power, sexual misconduct, typecasting women, male-centric stories, snuffing the careers and ambitions of talented female writers and animators, etc.

Those kind of people being flushed out of the industry is long overdue.

 

[JackOutback]

Being aligned with Jack Outback on a Star Wars issue is like a couple of Seagulls looking at each other in the Simpson desert. Neither of you should be there.

It amazes me to this day how personal some of you take another poster having a differing opinion over one movie made six years ago. The Last Jedi didn’t break Star Wars, it broke you.

 

[JackOutback]

And while I just posted the meme for a laugh, there’s a kernel of truth to it. The Ewoks movie don’t ruin Star Wars, nor the many dire EU novels nor the the maligned at the time prequels. Star Wars has always had content fans didn’t like and if Lucas had produced as much as Disney has, I suspect his track record wouldn’t be any better. If you don’t like something, don’t watch it and wait for the thing you do like.

 

[glenferry23]

And while I just posted the meme for a laugh, there’s a kernel of truth to it. The Ewoks movie don’t ruin Star Wars, nor the many dire EU novels nor the the maligned at the time prequels. Star Wars has always had content fans didn’t like and if Lucas had produced as much as Disney has, I suspect his track record wouldn’t be any better. If you don’t like something, don’t watch it and wait for the thing you do like.

The sense of entitlement from a portion of fans has always been there, yes. The “George Lucas raped my childhood” stuff for example, sickening. Your decision to exit the acolyte thread has very much been validated, and I wouldn’t bother or recommend working your way through the thread whenever you do catch up with the series.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

It amazes me to this day how personal some of you take another poster having a differing opinion over one movie made six years ago. The Last Jedi didn’t break Star Wars, it broke you.

I'm just jealous and want a cut of the checks Disney must be sending you.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Haha true, well not a Disney Sith - but a real one yes.

 

[SM]

Haha true, well not a Disney Sith - but a real one yes.

You're suggesting everything is black and white, us v them, one person v another, rather than allowing for a nuance of views that mean I can agree with Jack on some things and not others.

 

[JackOutback]

I'm just jealous and want a cut of the checks Disney must be sending you.

I've been highly critical of Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka, fairly critical of Kenobi and later Mandalorian, loved Andor and early Mandalorian. I just don't throw my toys out of the cot if every piece of Star Wars content isn't made specifically with me in mind. I also accept it's broad sci-fi fantasy designed to evoke fun and wonder, not Citizen Kane.

 

[skam85]

There's plenty I'd change about Star Wars if given the chance, but I just don't have the emotional investment anymore to either fist pump and love the big scenes, or on the other side, angrily hate and rant about it. It just, is.

Enough investment to post on an anonymous online forum still though it seems.

 

[SM]

There's plenty I'd change about Star Wars if given the chance, but I just don't have the emotional investment anymore to either fist pump and love the big scenes, or on the other side, angrily hate and rant about it. It just, is.

Enough investment to post on an anonymous online forum still though it seems.

I'm trending this way to be honest. I even still by the books but at this stage that's more out of habit and liking a nice comfort read to break up my non fiction reading.

It's why when Disney first got it the idea of a movie every year sounded terrible to me. Less is more.

 

[JackOutback]

Star Wars has always been entertainment to me, albeit one that has taken up more space in my DVD and book shelves than others. I grew up in a time (twice) when you didn't think you would see any more on the big screen. That I was disappointed in the PT didn't crush me, it just didn't hold the same continuing appeal as the OT. I'm happy to consume it all in the knowledge that some will disappoint (TROS, BOBF, Mandalorian later seasons) but there will always be something top shelf along the way (R1, TLJ, Andor). If you view screen content now as we used to view the EU, you will roll with the highs and the lows.

 

[manureid]

Need Andor back to right the ship.