STARTING 22 FOR 2023 - TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE MADE

[Marcel Proust]

Both avaraged 0.1 contested marks last year...

I'm not saying it's a strength of Short's by any means, but to say it's a strength of Kmac's is also a stretch.

Doesn't really matter.

If you find stats for how many contests he breaks even at important sections that'd be more topical imo

 

[Marcel Proust]

So what I am hearing is Short is not best 22, no good at defending, incapable of pushing back in to defence from wing, and is poor overhead. Should have delisted him.

Hyperbole aside how does short break into the back 6?

Vlastuin is the medium. Rioli and Baker you could argue are better.

There are a bunch of tall defenders and like magic says - you want to get some games into the kids

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Kmac and Pickett are defensive wingman who are capable in the air. Shorty is hopeless in the air and should only be used in a running half back and a long disposal role. The only players likely to move out one or both of our current wingman are the young kids coming through. Anyone advocating Shorty as a winger is clueless.

Langdon at Melbourne this year was commonly agreed to as the best winger in the comp...

Short's attributes, abilities, and strengths line up really well when compared with Langdon... So clueless is just posturing by you.

Would Short be the same type wingman as Kmac, then that answers is clearly no, so if we are debating could Short replace Kmac based on that alone, then the answer is no. However, I actually believe Short could bering a lot more to the table than Kmac, especially offensively, and given he knows the back six set-up, he wouldn't be entirely out of place.

Put this way, from 2019, Short replaces Ellis on a wing, and Pickett replaces Kmac... not so big a stretch now is it

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Doesn't really matter.

If you find stats for how many contests he breaks even at important sections that'd be more topical imo

I actually agree, I'm not a big fan of stats too much, as they can be manipulated to achieve most arguments.

My point was, if KMac was so much better, there would be an advantage in that number to him, there isn't. But your right, until you understand how many contests he halves instead of loses, that would be more accurate

 

[tiger_tough]

Langdon at Melbourne this year was commonly agreed to as the best winger in the comp...

Short's attributes, abilities, and strengths line up really well when compared with Langdon... So clueless is just posturing by you.

Would Short be the same type wingman as Kmac, then that answers is clearly no, so if we are debating could Short replace Kmac based on that alone, then the answer is no. However, I actually believe Short could bering a lot more to the table than Kmac, especially offensively, and given he knows the back six set-up, he wouldn't be entirely out of place.

Put this way, from 2019, Short replaces Ellis on a wing, and Pickett replaces Kmac... not so big a stretch now is it

Langdon is a poor comparison - he might be the best runner in the AFL. He regularly plays games without going to the bench once, which is insane for a winger who runs up and back all game. Plus he's a shit kick and not a distributor like Short.

Short is in the top half dozen half backs in the game comfortably. We should leave him there.

 

[_RT_]

Short can’t provide an aerial contest though and that’s the key point here.

Focusing on just one aspect of being a winger is wrong. You need to look at the whole package that should be looked at and IMO I believe that Short could be a winger much like Brandon was before he left, good enough to get back into the defensive half and intercept mark, not necessarily big pack marks, but get into holes and chop off opposition entries, which he has done previously when playing across HB. Add to that his hard running and ability to use the ball well and he could very well become a solid winger. Nobody thought he'd make it as a midfielder when we moved him into the middle and for the most part he played well there.

I'm not suggeting that he'll become an all time great winger if played there, but I don't see any reason why he can become a solid player in the role.

 

[_RT_]

Langdon at Melbourne this year was commonly agreed to as the best winger in the comp...

Short's attributes, abilities, and strengths line up really well when compared with Langdon... So clueless is just posturing by you.

Would Short be the same type wingman as Kmac, then that answers is clearly no, so if we are debating could Short replace Kmac based on that alone, then the answer is no. However, I actually believe Short could bering a lot more to the table than Kmac, especially offensively, and given he knows the back six set-up, he wouldn't be entirely out of place.

Put this way, from 2019, Short replaces Ellis on a wing, and Pickett replaces Kmac... not so big a stretch now is it

Well said, anyone thinking that Short would replace KMac and play the same style is kidding themselves, they are built completely differently.

If Short was to move to the wing to replace either KMac or Pickett, it would be a return back to the wing role that Brandon played so well, that was immensely underrated by plenty on here, who continually suggested he was crap.

 

[sregit]

Langdon is a poor comparison - he might be the best runner in the AFL. He regularly plays games without going to the bench once, which is insane for a winger who runs up and back all game. Plus he's a s**t kick and not a distributor like Short.

Short is in the top half dozen half backs in the game comfortably. We should leave him there.

Spot on. Short is a really good as a running small defender. We use our wingers predominantly as drop back defenders. RFC play rebound from defence. kmac and picket do this way better than shorty.

 

[Coach_Required]

B: Grimes Tarrant Broad
HB: Vlastuin Balta D.Rioli
C: Pickett Taranto Macintosh
HF: Rioli Jnr Riewoldt Bolton
F: Cumberland Lynch Martin
Foll: Nankervis Hopper Prestia
Int: Cotchin, Baker, Short, Graham, Miller (no medi sub expected, so 5 on the bench).

Emg: Sonsie, Ross, Gibcus, Soldo/Ralphsmith

I think that's pretty close to the mark, however I reckon our interchange and emergencies will depend on opposition match ups.

B: Grimes Tarrant Broad
HB: Vlastuin Balta D.Rioli
C: Pickett Taranto Macintosh
HF: Rioli Jnr Riewoldt Bolton
F: Cumberland Lynch Martin
Foll: Nankervis Hopper Prestia
Int: Baker, Short, Cotchin (2 vacant spots each week consisting of the players below)

Emg: Graham (mid), Sonsie (mid), Ross (mid), Gibcus (Back/tall), Miller (Ruck/tall), Soldo (Ruck).

 

[Livonski]

2020 GF.
Short gets it on the wing ond just pops it on to his foot...65m and hit George on the chest 20m out from goal.

That's his strength. Metres gained is massive and gets defences completely out of shape with the speed of ball movement.
I reckon he'd be great as an outside running winger.
Just don't expect the aerial contest you get from KMac.

p.s. George dropped the chest mark.

Didn't matter Lambo goaled after theat little speccy from Shai. (It was touched!!! Menagola).

Great memories.

 

[Wooden Robot]

2020 GF.
Short gets it on the wing ond just pops it on to his foot...65m and hit George on the chest 20m out from goal.

That's his strength. Metres gained is massive and gets defences completely out of shape with the speed of ball movement.
I reckon he'd be great as an outside running winger.
Just don't expect the aerial contest you get from KMac.

p.s. George dropped the chest mark.

Didn't matter Lambo goaled after theat little speccy from Shai. (It was touched!!! Menagola).

Great memories.

Didn't have to add the PS.
Those who saw it, knew it.
Thise who didn't see it, would have guessed it.

 

[Livonski]

Didn't have to add the PS.
Those who saw it, knew it.
Thise who didn't see it, would have guessed it.

That’s your total take from my post.
Sad existence.

 

[energyquant]

Focusing on just one aspect of being a winger is wrong. You need to look at the whole package that should be looked at and IMO I believe that Short could be a winger much like Brandon was before he left, good enough to get back into the defensive half and intercept mark, not necessarily big pack marks, but get into holes and chop off opposition entries, which he has done previously when playing across HB. Add to that his hard running and ability to use the ball well and he could very well become a solid winger. Nobody thought he'd make it as a midfielder when we moved him into the middle and for the most part he played well there.

I'm not suggeting that he'll become an all time great winger if played there, but I don't see any reason why he can become a solid player in the role.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Didn't have to add the PS.
Those who saw it, knew it.
Thise who didn't see it, would have guessed it.

Posters arguing about P.S.‘s ‍

Gonna be a looooong off-season.

 

[_RT_]

Spot on. Short is a really good as a running small defender. We use our wingers predominantly as drop back defenders. RFC play rebound from defence. kmac and picket do this way better than shorty.

Outside the aerial contests, which we've all sgreed is a weakness, but I dont believe is that much worse than KMac & Pickett, there is nothing stopping Short from playing a similar role as his rebounding defender role but coming off the wing. He knows how we structure up defensively and knows how the rebound game works. As I said last night he could be a better version of what Brandon was when playing in the wing given he is more accountable defensively than Ellis was.

 

[Wooden Robot]

That’s your total take from my post.
Sad existence.

You mentioned it, Sad Boy.

 

[Timothy Luncheon]

With what will likely be a 5 man interchange if teams vote for it, both Short and Macca can fit in the team perfectly. And if they’re both playing I don’t think you’d move Macca back

 

[bananatigz]

B: Grimes, Tarrant, Vlastuin
HB: Short, Balta, D.Rioli
C: McIntosh, Hopper, Pickett
HF: Bolton, Reiwoldt, M.Rioli
F: Martin, Lynch, Cumberland
R: Nankervis, Taranto, Prestia
I: Broad, Cotchin, Baker, Miller, Sonsie

B: Mansell, Nuyon, ?
HB: Brown, Gibcus, ?
C: Banks, Graham, Ralphsmith
HF: Clarke, Bauer, ?
F: Castagna, Ryan, Colina
R: Soldo, Ross, Dow


There's honestly 6-7 blokes in that reserves team that could easily end up playing round 1 which is a great space to be in. There will inevitably be injuries and guys like Cotchin and Prestia will need to be managed at certain stages, so there will be plenty of opportunity. KPF and a mid wouldn't hurt with our two picks in the ND. General/Small defenders have proven to be pretty good value as rookies/mature aged picks in recent years, one or two in the rookie draft couldn't hurt either.

 

[Grrr]

Short played well in the midfield and will be even better in there with some more inside mids distributing to him. He is elite at getting his boot to balls under pressure and gaining 50m left or right. That very much suits our quick forward style of play and gives the forwards the break on sides that set up behind the ball. I'm not sure why people want him out.

The only one I think who could replace MacIntosh or Pickett on the wing is Ralphsmith. He has much the same tools as Langdon but is much stronger and will be even more so after another big preseason and he is much better in the air. He could be a weapon but is still quite young so learning the game. Thought he showed heaps last year off half back but at the pointy end of the season he did not have the experience to play there as his pressure game is not there yet. But I would bet it will be at some stage soon. He will be really pressing his claims this year.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Focusing on just one aspect of being a winger is wrong. You need to look at the whole package that should be looked at and IMO I believe that Short could be a winger much like Brandon was before he left, good enough to get back into the defensive half and intercept mark, not necessarily big pack marks, but get into holes and chop off opposition entries, which he has done previously when playing across HB. Add to that his hard running and ability to use the ball well and he could very well become a solid winger. Nobody thought he'd make it as a midfielder when we moved him into the middle and for the most part he played well there.

I'm not suggeting that he'll become an all time great winger if played there, but I don't see any reason why he can become a solid player in the role.

Less of a squib than Bellis too

 

[pins and needles]

If it was up to me we would be developing Broad as back up in that role, frees up a spot in the back 7 for either Short or Gibcus and Broad has a lot of attributes that would suit. Strong one v one, good overhead and is always in our top few for distance covered in a game.

Depends I suppose whether we see our wingers as attacking or defensive players. I think our coaches see our wingers as primarily providing defensive cover which means Broad the better option.

Would also mean Broad could be interchange and cover for multiple positions.

How good a player has Broad turned into, an absolute ripper.

 

[DontArgue4]

Outside the aerial contests, which we've all sgreed is a weakness, but I dont believe is that much worse than KMac & Pickett, there is nothing stopping Short from playing a similar role as his rebounding defender role but coming off the wing. He knows how we structure up defensively and knows how the rebound game works. As I said last night he could be a better version of what Brandon was when playing in the wing given he is more accountable defensively than Ellis was.

Pickett is a gun aerially, short wouldnt come close...

Do agree short wouldnt be a bad stop gap wing if we needed it though

 

[Mr Magic]

Yeah nah, this is where I would put Bolton on the wing to get the best set-up at times.

Bolton in space offers so much more and more accomplished as a mid

 

[daftmike]

FB Bolton rioli short
Hb Balta Riewoldt gibcus
C Martin cotchin prestia
FLynch cumbo taranto
FF Clarke baker miller
Sonsie hopper nank

Interchange:
Graham Grimes Macintosh vlas

 

[energyquant]

Yeah nah, this is where I would put Bolton on the wing to get the best set-up at times.

Bolton in space offers so much more and more accomplished as a mid

Bolton is just too good to play wing. He's on the ball or inside 50 creating terror and mayhem for his opponent.

Short is not a mid. He has no defensive element to his game. He's not a natural mid and you don't learn to play the position in the AFL. If he starts as a mid in Round 1, Walsh will destroy him.