List Mgmt. State of the list

[John Who]

My point is that you guys shouldn't do what a poorly run club has done, because its left us crap for a number of years. Right now the crows arent prioritising the next generation, which is what the blues did, and we ended up with a list devoid of any talent and have had to try and develop a bunch of youngsters around spuds like casboult ever since. Should be getting a young ruck in while Sauce is still there, or ur next ruck will have to learn off the blokes like Obrien

You make some good points. Though the situation isn’t as simple as it seems. The Crows are in a situation where the players in the best 22 still ARE good enough to give the premiership a shake. And by playing the youngsters now, you obviously fast track their development, but at a compromise to winning enough games in the minor rounds to reach the Finals.

Throw in Brown, Doedee and Seeds and we start to look more potent again. The season’s still young, and not too long ago we bet Port and GWS in the JLT series, who are both in the top 8 as of current. Betts, who supposedly is “finished”, kicked 4 goals in one of the games!

 

[Red Bull]

I don't think we should take any lessons from one of the least successful and most poorly run clubs in the AFL

There is a lot to take from Carlton , both good and bad.
Nothing stays the same forever ...

 

[Tex200]

You make some good points. Though the situation isn’t as simple as it seems. The Crows are in a situation where the players in the best 22 still ARE good enough to give the premiership a shake. And by playing the youngsters now, you obviously fast track their development, but at a compromise to winning enough games in the minor rounds to reach the Finals.

Throw in Brown, Doedee and Seeds and we start to look more potent again. The season’s still young, and not too long ago we bet Port and GWS in the JLT series, who are both in the top 8 as of current. Betts, who supposedly is “finished”, kicked 4 goals in one of the games!

You see now it’s easy to write that - core group are good enough to give the flag a shake. It’s a common view from supporters who naturally rate their own side.

All evidence would point to the contrary though.

If we take 2015 as a start point:
2015 - smashed in a semi
2016 - smashed in a semi
2017 - smashed in a grand
2018 - didn’t make finals
2019 - 1-2 not looking close

So I dunno, I certainly thought the group was good enough, I’m not so sure right now.

They’ve been good enough to put themselves into a position to challenge - but have they actually challenged? I don’t think they have if we’re honest.

 

[hey shorty]

You see now it’s easy to write that - core group are good enough to give the flag a shake. It’s a common view from supporters who naturally rate their own side.

All evidence would point to the contrary though.

If we take 2015 as a start point:
2015 - smashed in a semi
2016 - smashed in a semi
2017 - smashed in a grand
2018 - didn’t make finals
2019 - 1-2 not looking close

So I dunno, I certainly thought the group was good enough, I’m not so sure right now.

They’ve been good enough to put themselves into a position to challenge - but have they actually challenged? I don’t think they have if we’re honest.

Halfway through said Granny I thought we were going to win the game.

 

[Tex200]

Halfway through said Granny I thought we were going to win the game.

So what does that mean - you think this group are challengers with that record?

The old saying in sports - you are what your record says you are.

 

[1970crow]

Doedee waited because we had Snake there, so that's fair enough.

Other than Clark, most of Geelongs newbies have spent a year or more in the VFL developing their craft. Sydney and Hawthorn do it too.

Doedee could have played ahead of Otto late in 2017.

 

[1970crow]

Spot on ... the problem is we have retained the wrong players and not blooded the right players .
We are in a massive bind that this here brains trust is clueless to remedy .
Why ?? because if they saw it it would have been done already .
This is a slow rot to nowhere !!

When your entire football philosophy is built upon the foundation of continuity you’re completely stuffed. Pyke is a Craig clone. Continuity equals unaccountability. Nobody is held accountable for poor performance. It starts at the very top with ferret face and unfortunately Pyke slipped in seamlessly.

 

[Tex200]

When your entire football philosophy is built upon the foundation of continuity you’re completely stuffed. Pyke is a Craig clone. Continuity equals unaccountability. Nobody is held accountable for poor performance. It starts at the very top with ferret face and unfortunately Pyke slipped in seamlessly.

Yep, continuity = tenure.

 

[hey shorty]

Doedee could have played ahead of Otto late in 2017.

Potentially, I mean I felt he was ready, as was Keath.

 

[Scorpus]

I'm of the opinion that our TEAM isn't good enough but our SQUAD is.

Get rid of our proven failed players and start playing the elite talent that we have bumming around in the SANFL and I reckon we look very different

 

[Bicks]

There is a lot to take from Carlton , both good and bad.
Nothing stays the same forever ...

And the good is?

Only good I see is to not emulate one single thing Carlton has done over the last decade.

 

[hey shorty]

I'm of the opinion that our TEAM isn't good enough but our SQUAD is.

Get rid of our proven failed players and start playing the elite talent that we have bumming around in the SANFL and I reckon we look very different

Pretty much how I see it.

And if we play these young kids and they don't do so well, then so be it. We tried them and we found something out.

Having seen our SANFL kids play 3 times this year there's enough there.

 

[Tex200]

Pretty much how I see it.

And if we play these young kids and they don't do so well, then so be it. We tried them and we found something out.

Having seen our SANFL kids play 3 times this year there's enough there.

Spot on. If there’s no churn then there’s no information going forward.

I’m all for a year in the 2’s, or using it to give kids like Jones a spell.

Clubs are renewing annually, we need to catch up. Stuck in a philosophical position of continuity seems outdated.

 

[Elite Crow]

We all know we ain’t changing, our forward line has senior contracted players. We will go down with them.

 

[craig crowing]

Losing one of our 2 only successful draft or trade picks so far in last 4 years and that was 4 years ago where got Milera and Doedee , with Doedee out for season highlights how badly we have done in revitalising our squad.
Using top 2 picks .
Gallucci -- Showed signs end of last season but nothing to get too excited about and had extremely disappointing start to this season when was hoping he would shine . Now one of many short fwds- mids
Poholke --- Just a fringe everyday solid fringe AFL mid.
=======
Fogerty --- All excited by this selection but been disappointing for such a high pick and really don't know where going to fit or give us what we hoped.
McPherson. -- Another pick that looked good but was a gamble at the best injury wise and basically played 3-4 SANFL games and out again for how long who knows.
=========
With 3 picks inside 20 in a super draft full of championship winning SA players where we got none.
Jones --- Very small but quick ,although played 3 games hasn't seen too much of the ball and really had no impact to say we have a star and as a first pick where will he dominate in future with his size in todays game.
McHenry -- Very small forward who game built on some speed and tackling where as high pick might have expected more especially when traded for small forwards in McAdam and Stengle in same year .
And of course we traded 19 rather than taking a pick in draft that producing already great AFL players.
=============
We lost
Cameron
Lever
McGovern
But we got picks above and wait for it.
Gibbs
Stengle --- come unfit and showing a bit but obviously not AFL fit yet.
McAdam. -- totally not ready and reading between lines might struggle with AFL mental and physical pressures.
So tell me how we have put our squad into a future power club.
Coaches etc is another question another day.

 

[Tex200]

Losing one of our 2 only successful draft or trade picks so far in last 4 years and that was 4 years ago where got Milera and Doedee , with Doedee out for season highlights how badly we have done in revitalising our squad.
Using top 2 picks .
Gallucci -- Showed signs end of last season but nothing to get too excited about and had extremely disappointing start to this season when was hoping he would shine . Now one of many short fwds- mids
Poholke --- Just a fringe everyday solid fringe AFL mid.
=======
Fogerty --- All excited by this selection but been disappointing for such a high pick and really don't know where going to fit or give us what we hoped.
McPherson. -- Another pick that looked good but was a gamble at the best injury wise and basically played 3-4 SANFL games and out again for how long who knows.
=========
With 3 picks inside 20 in a super draft full of championship winning SA players where we got none.
Jones --- Very small but quick ,although played 3 games hasn't seen too much of the ball and really had no impact to say we have a star and as a first pick where will he dominate in future with his size in todays game.
McHenry -- Very small forward who game built on some speed and tackling where as high pick might have expected more especially when traded for small forwards in McAdam and Stengle in same year .
And of course we traded 19 rather than taking a pick in draft that producing already great AFL players.
=============
We lost
Cameron
Lever
McGovern
But we got picks above and wait for it.
Gibbs
Stengle --- come unfit and showing a bit but obviously not AFL fit yet.
McAdam. -- totally not ready and reading between lines might struggle with AFL mental and physical pressures.
So tell me how we have put our squad into a future power club.
Coaches etc is another question another day.

I think there’s some fair questions in there.

Certainly some concerns on how we managed the super draft both from a trade and pick perspective.

It’s early days of course and I’m sure many will be quick to point to the Doedee example.

But as of today Port smashed that super draft. Both in the way they reset their list to get inside us at every pick and the selections themselves.

All of Rozee, Butters and Duursma have the question being asked - Chad who?

Our haul of Jones, McHenry and a carry over to next year looks ok but we need to wait of course for the full reveal. What would help is if we play these kids in meaningful positions and give them the kind of responsibility the other 3 have been given

 

[1970crow]

Some good points, but remember Collingwood have a stack of mids and no forwards - they just play their mids up there

Which is what we should do. 4 specialist forwards leaves us underpowered in the midfield and lacking flexibility when things aren’t going our way. The other 2 players down there are there to provide the defensive pressure that the other 4 are incapable of providing. We should have forced Lynch out, keeping him was stupid. But then, our coaches can’t see the issue with our setup because it works so well when our midfield are completely demolishing their opponents and our defence is slingshotting with gay abandon. If that’s not happening our 4 specialist forwards are worse than shit at getting the ball and then don’t provide any pressure at all.

 

[Bicks]

Losing one of our 2 only successful draft or trade picks so far in last 4 years and that was 4 years ago where got Milera and Doedee , with Doedee out for season highlights how badly we have done in revitalising our squad.
Using top 2 picks .
Gallucci -- Showed signs end of last season but nothing to get too excited about and had extremely disappointing start to this season when was hoping he would shine . Now one of many short fwds- mids
Poholke --- Just a fringe everyday solid fringe AFL mid.
=======
Fogerty --- All excited by this selection but been disappointing for such a high pick and really don't know where going to fit or give us what we hoped.
McPherson. -- Another pick that looked good but was a gamble at the best injury wise and basically played 3-4 SANFL games and out again for how long who knows.
=========
With 3 picks inside 20 in a super draft full of championship winning SA players where we got none.
Jones --- Very small but quick ,although played 3 games hasn't seen too much of the ball and really had no impact to say we have a star and as a first pick where will he dominate in future with his size in todays game.
McHenry -- Very small forward who game built on some speed and tackling where as high pick might have expected more especially when traded for small forwards in McAdam and Stengle in same year .
And of course we traded 19 rather than taking a pick in draft that producing already great AFL players.
=============
We lost
Cameron
Lever
McGovern
But we got picks above and wait for it.
Gibbs
Stengle --- come unfit and showing a bit but obviously not AFL fit yet.
McAdam. -- totally not ready and reading between lines might struggle with AFL mental and physical pressures.
So tell me how we have put our squad into a future power club.
Coaches etc is another question another day.

Well I'm backing in Hamish Ogilvie in every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Peter Williams probably sees more of the TAC Cup kids than almost anybody including some club recruiters and I consider him the best judge of junior talent outside of clubland.

Here's Pete's take on the kids we drafted in 2018.

2018 AFL Draft review: Adelaide
ADELAIDE headed into the National AFL Draft with three picks in the first round, and eventually only took the two, offloading what would become pick 19, and the Crows’ 2019 first rounder, to Carlton for the Blues’ 2019 first rounder. It likely meant the Crows picked up a top five pick next year, putting them in a terrific position not just this year, but for 2019 too.
National Draft:

Chayce Jones – Small Utility
Jones was rumoured to be a possible top 10 selection heading into draft night, and, after the Crows unsuccessfully bid on North Melbourne Next Generation Academy member, Tarryn Thomas, they selected Jones with the ninth pick in the National Draft. Jones has all the traits the Crows would be looking for – speed, skills and tackling pressure – not to mention leadership to boot. The Launceston product is a terrific leader and is one of the more underrated players in the draft crop, and now he heads to West Lakes and will have an instant impact. Don’t worry about his size, he packs plenty of punch and will see senior games next year.
Ned McHenry – Small Midfielder/Forward
It was a little surprising to see the Crows pick up McHenry after selecting Jones given their relatively small stature compared to those available, but I love the selection. McHenry is the ying to Eddie Betts’ yang, in the sense that while both players are two-way runners, Betts does his damage offensively, while McHenry does his damage defensively – averaging the most tackles at the National Under 18 Championships. He knows where the goals are and can play midfield, though at 174cm, expect him to be a pressure forward who relieves on a wing in time. His forward stoppage prowess is something to behold and is another player who given the right circumstance, could play games next season.
Will Hamill – General Defender/Midfielder
Unlike the other two, Hamill is more of a long-term player, though he has that prototype size to fill into something special. At 188cm or thereabouts, Hamill has the height, and the smooth-moving ability to glide around the field and break down opposition zones. Like Jones, Hamill runs a sub-three second 20m sprint, and rarely makes a mistake by hand or foot. He needs to find more of the football, but will always be a player that might average 17 touches a game, of which 13 of them cause serious headaches for the opposition. Can play off half-back or through the middle, Hamill is still very light and will need type to bulk up, but when he does, expect him to do some nice things.
Lachlan Sholl – General Defender/Midfielder
Sholl is a similar type and size to Hamill, so in some ways they have double-dipped here, but they do have some differences. While both primarily play off half-back and can push into the wing, Sholl has more penetration by foot and can do some damage with his piercing kick. He does not quite have the consistency of disposal that Hamill does, and needs to build up more of a contested brand of ball-winning to have a bigger impact at senior level, but at pick 64, Sholl looms as a low-risk, high-reward selection.

Rookie Draft:
Kieran Strachan – Ruck
The Essendon VFL ruckman has barely got on the park in the past two seasons, but the Crows had no issues giving him a chance, with selection in the rookie draft. He will take time, but given Sam Jacobs is not getting any younger, and the likes of Reilly O’Brien and co are still developing, the Crows will be keen to add another ruck to the group, which they have done here in the mature-ager.
Jordon Butts – Tall Utility
The over-age tall does not turn 19 until the final day of the year, so is practically a top-age player. He is similar to a Justin Westhoff in the sense he can play forward, back or through the midfield. At 194cm or so, Butts has a remarkable running ability to play on a wing if needed. He is one of those players that is perfectly suited to the rookie draft because he has lots of traits that can be harnessed in order to make him a better player, he just needs to put them all together to click. Smart pick by the Crows.
Summary:
Adelaide placed an emphasis on speed and tackling pressure in its National Draft selections, with both Jones and McHenry being two of the draft crop’s more prolific tacklers. Jones and Hamill are two of the quickest players available, while all four have great foot skills. In terms. Of their draft selections, Adelaide deserves an A+ because the Crows not only addressed needs, but picked up players who would not have been there at their next selection with other clubs keen on those players. Overall, Adelaide gets a tick for meeting needs and a tick for value. Then there’s a top five pick incoming, overall a fantastic draft for the Crows.

 

[mattymac]

The list will be rooted in 2 years.

The following key players will all be gone or on their last legs:

Betts
Jenkins
Walker
Sloane
Jacobs
Gibbs

Who do we have to fill those roles?

Fogarty
Milera

Small forwards all look dubious
Milera is the only midfielder coming through below the Crouch bros who we can say will definitely make it
Not sold on Himmelberg at all

Talia will also be 30

We need to do some serious trading in the next year or two for:

A. A ruck
B. A key forward to partner Fogarty
C. A livewire genuine small forward

 

[1970crow]

Potentially, I mean I felt he was ready, as was Keath.

Keath wouldnt have made a difference. Harto was fine in the GF. We had 1 too many talls as it was, one of the 3 should have been an unlucky omission due to no match up.

 

[hey shorty]

Keath wouldnt have made a difference. Harto was fine in the GF. We had 1 too many talls as it was, one of the 3 should have been an unlucky omission due to no match up.

Given we were never going to change structure, Keath was the best option to come in.

I agree though, Menzel was the right pick but his card was stamped.

We didn't pick the best players available.

 

[Thetrader15]

There is a lot to take from Carlton , both good and bad.
Nothing stays the same forever ...

This is true. You should always look at the best and worst, o get ideas. Just because Carlton are a terrible on field team, doesn't mean they don't do something we can take onboard- I jist don't know what it is

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Throw in Brown, Doedee and Seeds and we start to look more potent again. The season’s still young, and not too long ago we bet Port and GWS in the JLT series, who are both in the top 8 as of current. Betts, who supposedly is “finished”, kicked 4 goals in one of the games!

If you place any stock in JLT form you are straight up delusional.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Just looking at the Sturt U16 list. Theres a Tex Wangerneen in the side. That would be a nice mix for us.

 

[Horseflee]

The list will be rooted in 2 years.

The following key players will all be gone or on their last legs:

Betts
Jenkins
Walker
Sloane
Jacobs
Gibbs

Who do we have to fill those roles?

Fogarty
Milera

Small forwards all look dubious
Milera is the only midfielder coming through below the Crouch bros who we can say will definitely make it
Not sold on Himmelberg at all

Talia will also be 30

We need to do some serious trading in the next year or two for:

A. A ruck
B. A key forward to partner Fogarty
C. A livewire genuine small forward

Spot On...

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