Statewide League 2008

[roorat]

Saturday, 8 December 2007
By ANGUS LIVINGSTON
Perry urges fans to fight State push to your club joining the statewide competition
Former Devonport coach Dale Perry one of the Coast's most prominent football identities has called on the game's supporters in the State's North-West to unite in a bid to stop the creation of AFL Tasmania's proposed State league.
Perry warned the clubs looking at the State league proposal to remember the old competition for what it was.
"Very good football that couldn't pay its way," he said.
"The very same clubs can also thank regional football for saving them after the self-proclaimed elite administrators left them swinging in the breeze."
http://nwtasmania.yourguide.com.au/printerFriendlyPage.asp?story_id=1100931

 

[Kingpin]

Statewide football what a joke .Our u/18 comp what a joke. These kids dont even play for 4 points when they play. Follow the SAFL & WAFL let their best kids play club football. I bet they dont have them rest them up so they dont get tired and weary like our ellite coaches do. NWFU NTFA TFL this is what will lift the standard of football. Get our best players and our best kids playing football for their town. And watch the standard grow. Oh our VFL side.Haven't they stuffed up there.They are the laughing stock of football all over Australia with people that follow the game. They know what they have to do there but no one has got the balls to do it.

E're! E're!

I'd like to see the TANFL restart, It'd be great to see the old NWFU come back, they had very good crowds at their games right until they closed down.
Their grand final crowds weren't too much lower than the TANFL's depending on who was playing.
I'd reckon the NTFA would stay as it currently is (a mix of the old Northern Amateurs etc) but even if they had the TANFL, NTFL & NWFU operating, I think that would be way cool.
Parochialism is our friend - we should use it more often to our advantage.
Then (as Big H suggested) have the $25,000 Gunns Statewide Cup to determine the best team in the State.

 

[Ball N Chain]

I'll give you a sneak preview of why NTFL clubs do not want to get involved with AFL tas. Sam Cairns from Launy and young Chris MacDonald from Penguin have both just signed with a club in Queensland league. The club in question paid AFL Tas 5 Grand for each player as a transfer fee. Chris Macdonald never played a game with the devils and Sam Cairns played twelve. AFL tas have kept this to themselves and have shared a dollar with either club. If they showed they were interested in all of state footy surely they would offer some sought of compensation to the clubs, maybe 60/40 or something. But know, top secret dealings.

 

[Barge]

Someone please explain to me how AFL Tas is entitled to a single cent in the case of McDonald?

 

[hardnut69]

Someone please explain to me how AFL Tas is entitled to a single cent in the case of McDonald?

5K would be a lot to a club like penguin. would be a good quality signing of someone. i think its the fact they havent said anything is putrid! he never played a game for f*ck sake

 

[North Wester]

Spot on comment. Let Wade and the idiots ruin football in the south. They are a disgrace and they don't have to be accountable to anyone. The money should of went to Penguin. Wade has already made enquries to the Ulverstone council about the availability of their ground for his statewide league that he wants to get up. He will never get it going. The resentment from the followers up here is huge. He has to remember it will be the members that vote for their clubs to join or not. Not Wade and his dick head coherts. IT AINT GARNA HAPPEN.

 

[bink-bink]

5K would be a lot to a club like penguin. would be a good quality signing of someone. i think its the fact they havent said anything is putrid! he never played a game for f*ck sake

Terrible isn't it. A joke. Sammy Cairns was a reasonable player for the devils last year an will be a considerable loss....

 

[hardnut69]

Terrible isn't it. A joke. Sammy Cairns was a reasonable player for the devils last year an will be a considerable loss....

carins will be a big loss but lets not forget he only played 12 games this year. he is from launceston so shouldnt they get a cut of some of the money as well??? did play in last years premiership! i wonder if someone can mention this to the mercury and see if we can get an official response on it???
Duff surely you have someone in the know their???

China pain surely in the top five as well.

 

[Ball N Chain]

Spot on Hardnut, would love to see the media get a hold of it. The fact they were on the devils list brings the transfer fee up. However its the clubs that have looked after both these kids for years, AFL Tas have contributed nothing. Was the same when Justin Plapp got drafted. He got drafted from Burnie, all the money went to AFL tasmania. Grant Birchall got drafted playing for Devonport, all the money went to AFL tas. Its a disgrace.

 

[bink-bink]

carins will be a big loss but lets not forget he only played 12 games this year. he is from launceston so shouldnt they get a cut of some of the money as well??? did play in last years premiership! i wonder if someone can mention this to the mercury and see if we can get an official response on it???
Duff surely you have someone in the know their???

China pain surely in the top five as well.

Yeah, held down full back in those games. KPP players, capable playing at that level, don't fall off trees. I think the devils will find going tough, particularly without the roos players.

The players get my full support - they train hard and have a crack. Let's not begrudge them for trying to play at the highest level they can.

In terms of the admin, I still can't believe the Chris McDonald issue. I don't think he was even close to playing a game either...

 

[Kingpin]

I'll give you a sneak preview of why NTFL clubs do not want to get involved with AFL tas. Sam Cairns from Launy and young Chris MacDonald from Penguin have both just signed with a club in Queensland league. The club in question paid AFL Tas 5 Grand for each player as a transfer fee. Chris Macdonald never played a game with the devils and Sam Cairns played twelve. AFL tas have kept this to themselves and have shared a dollar with either club. If they showed they were interested in all of state footy surely they would offer some sought of compensation to the clubs, maybe 60/40 or something. But know, top secret dealings.

The same thing happened to Justin Capaldi a few years ago.
Capaldi played seniors at Hobart and at one stage was training with the Devils, he was never good enough to make the Devils side and he was only a young bloke anyway.
He left Tasmania and joined an AFLQ club at the time, and the Devils demanded several thousand dollars as a transfer fee.
His father was enraged that the Devils were getting the money and not Hobart, and as a result rang AFL Tasmania asking for a pretty damn good explanation as to why the Devils were receiving the money for a player who'd never played even ONE game for them, and why Hobart - the club he'd played all his senior football with did not receive a red cent.
The response from AFL Tasmania was the usual arrogant, blow-off type response you'd expect from them - scoffing, smart arse answers, sarcasm and fobbing-off

Spot on comment. Let Wade and the idiots ruin football in the south. They are a disgrace and they don't have to be accountable to anyone. The money should of went to Penguin. Wade has already made enquries to the Ulverstone council about the availability of their ground for his statewide league that he wants to get up. He will never get it going. The resentment from the followers up here is huge. He has to remember it will be the members that vote for their clubs to join or not. Not Wade and his dick head coherts. IT AINT GARNA HAPPEN.

They've already ruined football down here.
You're absolutely correct, they are completely unaccountable.
I have to say, I have never come across a football person in the South who has had a kind word about Wade and AFL Tasmania - and the North and North West wouldn't be any different.

AFL Tas have contributed nothing. Was the same when Justin Plapp got drafted. He got drafted from Burnie, all the money went to AFL tasmania. Grant Birchall got drafted playing for Devonport, all the money went to AFL tas. Its a disgrace.

Plapp's fee would've went to the TFL administration and that loathesome Michael Kent and the equally insipid Doug Davey would've seen to that.
Seems that the withholding of payments to clubs has been happening for quite some years now.
I was talking to someone a few months ago who served on the Hobart committee in the early to mid 90's who was telling me that Hobart never got a cent when Michael Martin (HFC's last draftee) was drafted to Footscray either. TFL kept the money there.
Actually, when you think about it, it's little wonder none of the clubs can get ahead when there's been this systematic barrier-placing over a long period of time that has continued to hamper clubs in their ongoing survival.
Back in the early to mid-90's when Hobart were chest-deep in shit, their committee got together with leading Hobart sports promoter Wayne Monaghan to bring AFL clubs down here to play games at North Hobart in the pre-season which generated great finances for what was, at that stage, a club in the cusp of financial trouble.
The club made about $70,000 profit out of one of these matches ($40,000 I think from the first one) and if it had have been allowed to continue, the club would never have had to drop out of the TFL in 1997, and would never have been in the sorry state it is today.
But, instead of being congratulated and encouraged to try and right themselves financially to keep themselves as a viable club in TFL football, the other clubs down here got wind of how much money the club was making and whinged and whined to the TFL and it stepped in, disallowed Hobart from running these matches and took it over for themselves, giving part of the proceeds to all the clubs - who had not bothered to get off their collective arses and come up with something with such good initiative - and as a result, the concept fell over not long later.
Hobart lost out on a very big revenue stream there and as a result, fell even further into the mire and was only days away from going completely bust three years later.

Some things never change!

 

[roorat]

Just a few figures I found though they were from last year. Apart from paying AFL Tas wages and paying for the Devils just what else is the money used for?(If any is left) Junior Football is mainly funded by the $90.00 registration fee per child and the $5.00 per adult admission to games. Umpiring, coaching etc are on a volunteer basis. Auskick is run by volunteers and children again pay a registration fee. The Clubs pay levees and asstd player fees to cover their costs.
How come you never hear how much was raised by AFL Tas' Major raffle and where the funds went?

“As a result of the introduction of the AFL Live in Tasmania, an amount of $100 000 per year has been paid to AFL Tasmania by the State Government in compensation for losing revenue from conducting AFL pre season practice matches.
The State Government, through Sport and Recreation Tasmania, also contributes $150 000 a year towards development of football in this State. In addition, $10 000 per game per club - that is, $40 000 per season - was paid to AFL Tasmania through the AFL from the Hawthorn and St Kilda clubs as a result of the agreement to play AFL Live games in Tasmania. The State Government has also provided AFL Tasmania with 300 seats per game in the Gunns Stand at Aurora Stadium with a revenue-generating potential of about $50 000.”
http://www.kerryfinch.com/qa-speeches/20061017.htm

The AFL also funds AFL Tasmania to the tune of $1.3 million annually, primarily money expected to be used to "grow the game".
$100,000 + $150,000 + $40,000 + $50,000 + $1,300,000 = $1,640,000 plus Sponsorship, transfer fees, etc, etc.

 

[Ball N Chain]

I couldn't agree more, i think when the devils list is unveiled this year you will see up to ten new players from interstate. Its a shame so much money is wasted on players who will be gone in a year possibly two. This money could be pumped into setting up the academy's properly throughout the state so the kids are of a high standard to filter into these higher programs.

 

[Docker5]

Cresswell knows that if he doesn't win games this year then he is gone. He is not going to worry about whats best for footy in Tas. Buy em will be his motto

 

[North Wester]

Cresswell knows that if he doesn't win games this year then he is gone. He is not going to worry about whats best for footy in Tas. Buy em will be his motto

Spot on. He is not going to think development. Its going to be like every coach that comes from across the water get me this get me that. Remember G Davidson, M,Yeates, R Crosby, M Browning S Wright you could keep naming them. How many of these coaches developed the side and then were succ. They brought the players in and the local players and coaches then pay for it for years after these big timers are gone.

 

[Kingpin]

Spot on. He is not going to think development. Its going to be like every coach that comes from across the water get me this get me that. Remember G Davidson, M,Yeates, R Crosby, M Browning S Wright you could keep naming them. How many of these coaches developed the side and then were succ. They brought the players in and the local players and coaches then pay for it for years after these big timers are gone.

Can't speak for the others so much, but Browning did do a good job for a while there following on from the outstanding job Peter Hudson did in developing underneath.
The '89 Grand Final side that lost to North Hobart had good number of local talent in that team, many of which had been at the club since juniors or were from the country.
The 1990 premiership side did have quite a number of bigname recruits in the seniors, but it also did have a lot of players in that side that had been through the juniors at Hobart and couple of oldtimers (Petterd and Marchant especially) that had been around the club for years.
Ultimately it ended up being a $750,000 premiership for Hobart and a noose around the club's neck in the long run, that was extravagance on behalf of the club's board (president Geoff George from ANZ Bank in particular) at the time who were throwing money around like nobody's business, with fly-in players, upping payments etc rather than Browning's demands so much.
That was how it was done in that era, but the bubble had to burst sooner or later and when it did burst
In Browning's fourth year at the club (1991) Hobart had all three grades (1's, 2's & 3's) make the finals in the same year for the first time since it was founded in 1944.
Problem was, not a huge number of those in the 2's and 3's went on to play regular senior footy with Hobart (unlike previous years) after Browning had left because the club was in bad financial shape and a lot of those either found that they weren't good enough in the seniors and went to the ammo's or went elsewhere where they were more guaranteed the place wasn't going to fall out from underneath them
It still reckon some of the recruiting they did after the premiership was even more of a killer.
But I do agree with the basic premise of what you're saying though, definately.

 

[Docker5]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am not attacking these guys as people. It's just that every time a mainlander comes over clubs spend up big and then they struggle for the next 10 years. Just look at Devonport up on the coast. They have had a long haul back.

 

[Kingpin]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am not attacking these guys as people. It's just that every time a mainlander comes over clubs spend up big and then they struggle for the next 10 years. Just look at Devonport up on the coast. They have had a long haul back.

Yes, understand completely
I usually find that's a club management issue rather than a coach being demanding.
For example, in 1990, when Hobart took out that premiership, the club was throwing around the coin like it was confetti in a hurricane.
Problem there was, that the club didn't shore itself up financially in the longterm, it had a mindset of spend, spend, spend that was very prevalent in that era.
Hobart's supporter base in that era was the biggest it had been since the early 70's and people were coming out of the woodwork in droves.
The average attendance at home games in 1990 was double what they were in 1985, but despite that, the club didn't make any effort in trying to turn any of that average attendance of 1796 into financial members for the club to keep the money rolling in and build a future.
Instead, Hobart had a paltry 260 members that year - well behind the rest of the Southern-based clubs who had built theirs up.
Sandy Bay had about the same as Hobart, North Hobart and Glenorchy had over 800 members that year, Clarence had around 900 and I think New Norfolk had around 1,200.
It was only when it was too late, that they (and Sandy Bay) scurried around trying to increase their membership and by then the damage had been done.

It was an era where everyone expected the good times to continue, and winning was seen as the way to get cashed up - and as we know now, that probably wasn't the right way to do it

 

[bink-bink]

Yes, understand completely
I usually find that's a club management issue rather than a coach being demanding.
For example, in 1990, when Hobart took out that premiership, the club was throwing around the coin like it was confetti in a hurricane.
Problem there was, that the club didn't shore itself up financially in the longterm, it had a mindset of spend, spend, spend that was very prevalent in that era.
Hobart's supporter base in that era was the biggest it had been since the early 70's and people were coming out of the woodwork in droves.
The average attendance at home games in 1990 was double what they were in 1985, but despite that, the club didn't make any effort in trying to turn any of that average attendance of 1796 into financial members for the club to keep the money rolling in and build a future.
Instead, Hobart had a paltry 260 members that year - well behind the rest of the Southern-based clubs who had built theirs up.
Sandy Bay had about the same as Hobart, North Hobart and Glenorchy had over 800 members that year, Clarence had around 900 and I think New Norfolk had around 1,200.
It was only when it was too late, that they (and Sandy Bay) scurried around trying to increase their membership and by then the damage had been done.

It was an era where everyone expected the good times to continue, and winning was seen as the way to get cashed up - and as we know now, that probably wasn't the right way to do it

You know your numbers, king. how do you know these details????

 

[hardnut69]

You know your numbers, king. how do you know these details????

jim mains everything their is to know about football

 

[Kingpin]

jim mains everything their is to know about football

Close Tasmanian Football Yearbooks from that era, I've got them around here in a box somewhere.
Also, it was discussed in many copies of the old Tiger Talk magazines the club used to put out in the Statewide days, as to why they were in the precarious situation they were in and what they were planning to do to get back to a decent position.
I served on a sub-committee up there from about '93 till we left the TFL with some great people like Reid Free, Barry Gillbee, Rosco Barwick, Geoff Hughes, Stephen Cantwell etc and it was quite an openly discussed topic and moreso, as a bit of a guide (what to do/what not to do) as to how to get to where the other clubs were in as much as raising funds.
But in reality, the board and all the various sub-committees were really pushing the proverbial up-hill by that stage. It was a bit of a trainwreck unfortunately. But everyone all did as best as they could.
Highest the membership got up to in that era was about 450 I think from memory, but it was always going to be a hardsell to get people to sign up when, after the '92 Grand Final loss to North Hobart they had a win-loss record of 16-75-1 from 1993 to the end of 1997.
Attendances had fallen by quite a bit, the on-field performances had obviously not been good and the latent support that a had jumped on board when we were winning had gone away again, so getting to 450 was really stretching it.
Their last season in the TFL they had 344 members with no wins in the seniors or reserves competitions.

PS: Speaking of Jim Main, apparently he posts on BF, or so I've heard anyway.

 

[roorat]

Tuesday, 5 February 2008
Focus on new State league
By TERRY MORRIS
FOOTBALL clubs from the NTFL and SFL will meet shortly when the future or otherwise of the proposed Statewide competition should be known.
Clubs are examining questionnaires that have been circulated by AFL Tasmania on the new league.
http://northerntasmania.yourguide.com.au/news/sport/sports/focus-on-new-state-league/1175529.html

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am not attacking these guys as people. It's just that every time a mainlander comes over clubs spend up big and then they struggle for the next 10 years. Just look at Devonport up on the coast. They have had a long haul back.

Devonport also got hit with a huge tax bill in around 1997 or something if memory serves. Well into six figures.

 

[Kingpin]

Devonport also got hit with a huge tax bill in around 1997 or something if memory serves. Well into six figures.

I'm thinking the tax thing might have been later than '97 because they were in pretty good shape around '97 - the year they became the Power.
Burnie Dockers ended up 'in the poo' not long after that.
I remember their president Terry Lamprey (first class knobshiner of the highest order) boasting how they had hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash sponsorships and how great a power they were and how they were going to take over as the big powerbase in TFL footy.
Around that time they bought out the Burnie Tigers' old Bayview Hotel up in Burnie and spent a fortune turning it into some ritzy venue and employed some of the players as a staff.
I saw the pics in the paper, it looked pretty sharp, a lot more modern than the same place I'd had a meal and got pissed at a few years earlier, with its Tiger carpets and old style decore complete with elderly lady selling BFC Tigers raffle tickets in the main foyer.
Problem was the renovated pub never did very well custom-wise and went broke, the Burnie Council had to bail the Dockers out to stop them from going out of business completely.
It was after we'd left the TFL, and I remember the hulabaloo from many ratepayers up there venting their displeasure at the local council spending their dollars on rescuing a football club which had wasted a lot of money on poor investments, especially after it had been financially very strong only 18 months prior.
They weren't the first club in TFL footy to have a council bail them out to avoid extinction - Glenorchy, New Norfolk and to a lesser extent North Hobart are another three that spring to mind...

 

[hardnut69]

I'm thinking the tax thing might have been later than '97 because they were in pretty good shape around '97 - the year they became the Power.
Burnie Dockers ended up 'in the poo' not long after that.
I remember their president Terry Lamprey (first class knobshiner of the highest order) boasting how they had hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash sponsorships and how great a power they were and how they were going to take over as the big powerbase in TFL footy.
Around that time they bought out the Burnie Tigers' old Bayview Hotel up in Burnie and spent a fortune turning it into some ritzy venue and employed some of the players as a staff.
I saw the pics in the paper, it looked pretty sharp, a lot more modern than the same place I'd had a meal and got pissed at a few years earlier, with its Tiger carpets and old style decore complete with elderly lady selling BFC Tigers raffle tickets in the main foyer.
Problem was the renovated pub never did very well custom-wise and went broke, the Burnie Council had to bail the Dockers out to stop them from going out of business completely.
It was after we'd left the TFL, and I remember the hulabaloo from many ratepayers up there venting their displeasure at the local council spending their dollars on rescuing a football club which had wasted a lot of money on poor investments, especially after it had been financially very strong only 18 months prior.
They weren't the first club in TFL footy to have a council bail them out to avoid extinction - Glenorchy, New Norfolk and to a lesser extent North Hobart are another three that spring to mind...

mate if you think the bayview at burnie is ritzy
(even back then) then i would hate to think what you think the hilton is! but your right, it did send the club broke as well as spending ludicrus amounts on player payments ( having a fly in player) and the rate payers were peeved let me tell you!