Stats questions

[Cuzz09]

I am still amazed (and it ties in with your blocks of 4), the 16 goals kicked by the Eagles in the '92 GF were Sumich 6, Matera 5, Evans 3, Wilson 2.

So much for the theory that it's best to get a spread of goals

That snap right on half time by Sumich with all his weight away from the direction he kicked, for it to go 45m straight through, it was an astounding goal.

I don't have the stat but i'd hazard to say that no Premier, or possibly even grand finalist would have kicked as big a score with just four contributors in the goals column.

Yeah Id say the 4 goal kickers in a winning GF is the most recent probably again goes back to the 1900s

Geez I loved Suma.

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[Bob Neil]

Does anyone have - or know where to find - a table of the year-by-year ladder positions for all clubs? AFL Tables have this list which shows the ladder each year but it appears to be the ladder at the end of the minor round as opposed to the final ladder after the finals series which is what I'm looking for. TIA!

 

[stemline]

Can anyone provide a list of each club's last side fielded without an indigenous player?

 

[Falconista]

Can anyone provide a list of each club's last side fielded without an indigenous player?

Freo's only match without was Round 12 1995

 

[maskmcgee]

What is the most recent game from which no player remains on an AFL list?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

What is the most recent game from which no player remains on an AFL list?

The 2004 AFL Grand Final between Port Adelaide and Brisbane.

But, if we say that David Mundy was on Freo's list in 2004 (and he was but didn't play a league game,) then the revised answer is the 2003 AFL Grand Final.

 

[maskmcgee]

The 2004 AFL Grand Final between Port Adelaide and Brisbane.

But, if we say that David Mundy was on Freo's list in 2004 (and he was but didn't play a league game,) then the revised answer is the 2003 AFL Grand Final.

You seem to have misunderstood - I only am interested in the match. Just looked up the 2006 grand final teams - as far as I can tell, none of those 44 players are still on an AFL list, so it would count as one. Mundy or Franklin or whoever else being on some other list, or even being on Sydney or West Coast's list, or even being an emergency, as long as they didn't play, they don't count.

 

[JuniorWatch]

Say both teams being equal, has anyone ever made a scale of goals to wind advantage? A bit like the Beaufort scale.
Say 20km/hr going directly towards the goal kicking end = a 2 goal advantage?

 

[Bob Neil]

I heard a weird golf stat the other day which claimed that (to paraphrase) that for his round Cameron Smith had sunk a total of 185 feet worth of putts (numbers may be wrong) and that it was a really massive number in that metric...makes sense as if you made an average six footer on each hole it would be 108 feet in total.

Wonder if with ball tracking technology there is any data or calculation of the 'total goal distance' that a team has scored in any given match?

I think the AFLxScore Twitter account may provide approximate distance for each scoring shot so presumably it must be possible to calculate...love to see some data on this.

 

[Oliver G]

I heard a weird golf stat the other day which claimed that (to paraphrase) that for his round Cameron Smith had sunk a total of 185 feet worth of putts (numbers may be wrong) and that it was a really massive number in that metric...makes sense as if you made an average six footer on each hole it would be 108 feet in total.

Wonder if with ball tracking technology there is any data or calculation of the 'total goal distance' that a team has scored in any given match?

I think the AFLxScore Twitter account may provide approximate distance for each scoring shot so presumably it must be possible to calculate...love to see some data on this.

Yep and it's pretty easy to calculate too since shot locations are available off the AFL API.

For example in last week's Western Bulldogs v St. Kilda match...

WB - Goal Distance (13 goals)
480.7 metres at an average distance of 37.0 metres per goal.

STK - Goal Distance (7 goals)
262.8 metres at an average distance of 37.5 metres per goal.

*Measurements are taken from the shot location to the goal line.

Now if want to include all shots including behinds and misses...

WB - Shot Distance (21 shots)
850.7 metres at an average distance of 40.5 metres per shot.

STK - Shot Distance (22 shots)
829.3 metres at an average distance of 37.7 metres per shot.

 

[emuboy]

Only the second ever draw for Fremantle last night, coming nine years after they tied with the Sydney Swans at the SCG in 2013.

Today WAFL teams East Fremantle and South Fremantle meet at the WACA ground in wet conditions; could it be a trifecta of draws for the Fremantle teams? If so, it would be the first WAFL draw since 2012, the first time in 25 years South Fremantle have drawn a game since (1997 vs. East Perth), the first time East Fremantle have drawn any game in 33 years since 1989 (1st Semi Final vs. West Perth), the first time in 48 years East Fremantle has drawn a home and away match since 1974 and the first time in 80 years that the Sharks and Bulldogs have played a stalemate against each other, the last time being in 1942 with teams full of 16 & 17-year-olds during the Second World War.

 

[footyfan1978]

It looks like Cats, Demons, Carlton and Collingwood will all plays finals this year.
How many other seasons in history where they all played in the one finals series?

I can only think of 1994 off the top of my head.

Last time Carlton and Collingwood played against each other would have been the 1988 Qualifying Final and Melbourne were in that finals series but Cats would not have been in it.
But all four in the one finals series would be hard pressed to find much in history I would have thought..
Melbourne did not play finals from 1964 to 1987 so it would be hard to find I imagine.

 

[WheeloRatings]

It looks like Cats, Demons, Carlton and Collingwood will all plays finals this year.
How many other seasons in history where they all played in the one finals series?

I can only think of 1994 off the top of my head.

Last time Carlton and Collingwood played against each other would have been the 1988 Qualifying Final and Melbourne were in that finals series but Cats would not have been in it.
But all four in the one finals series would be hard pressed to find much in history I would have thought..
Melbourne did not play finals from 1964 to 1987 so it would be hard to find I imagine.

1994 is the only year all four have played in the same finals series.

Here are the seasons where at least three played finals.

2018: Coll, Melb, Geel
2013: Geel, Coll, Carl
2011: Coll, Geel, Carl
2010: Coll, Geel, Carl
2009: Geel, Coll, Carl
2000: Carl, Melb, Geel
1994: Carl, Geel, Melb, Coll
1989: Geel, Melb, Coll
1988: Coll, Carl, Melb
1981: Carl, Coll, Geel
1980: Geel, Carl, Coll
1978: Coll, Carl, Geel
1969: Coll, Carl, Geel
1967: Carl, Geel, Coll
1964: Melb, Coll, Geel
1962: Geel, Melb, Carl
1959: Melb, Carl, Coll
1956: Melb, Coll, Geel
1955: Melb, Coll, Geel
1952: Geel, Coll, Carl
1938: Carl, Geel, Coll
1937: Geel, Melb, Coll
1936: Coll, Carl, Melb
1931: Geel, Carl, Coll
1930: Coll, Carl, Geel
1928: Coll, Melb, Carl
1927: Coll, Geel, Carl
1926: Coll, Geel, Melb
1925: Geel, Melb, Coll
1921: Carl, Coll, Geel
1915: Coll, Carl, Melb
1903: Coll, Carl, Geel
1897: Geel, Melb, Coll

 

[footyfan1978]

1994 is the only year all four have played in the same finals series.

Here are the seasons where at least three played finals.

2018: Coll, Melb, Geel
2013: Geel, Coll, Carl
2011: Coll, Geel, Carl
2010: Coll, Geel, Carl
2009: Geel, Coll, Carl
2000: Carl, Melb, Geel
1994: Carl, Geel, Melb, Coll
1989: Geel, Melb, Coll
1988: Coll, Carl, Melb
1981: Carl, Coll, Geel
1980: Geel, Carl, Coll
1978: Coll, Carl, Geel
1969: Coll, Carl, Geel
1967: Carl, Geel, Coll
1964: Melb, Coll, Geel
1962: Geel, Melb, Carl
1959: Melb, Carl, Coll
1956: Melb, Coll, Geel
1955: Melb, Coll, Geel
1952: Geel, Coll, Carl
1938: Carl, Geel, Coll
1937: Geel, Melb, Coll
1936: Coll, Carl, Melb
1931: Geel, Carl, Coll
1930: Coll, Carl, Geel
1928: Coll, Melb, Carl
1927: Coll, Geel, Carl
1926: Coll, Geel, Melb
1925: Geel, Melb, Coll
1921: Carl, Coll, Geel
1915: Coll, Carl, Melb
1903: Coll, Carl, Geel
1897: Geel, Melb, Coll

Yeah, there is a lot with three I could think of but four, the fact it only once was a little surprising. Becomes a lot easier with a final 8 now and very hard when it was a final four before 1972.

So the very first year of a final 8 was when it happened.
I attended two of those finals in that year which did not end well.
1988 was the last time Carlton and Collingwood played in a final together.
Amazing that 34 years back now.

 

[Cuzz09]

1994 is my all time fave final series

WCE d Coll (under a goal)
Geel d Foots (after the siren)
NM d Haw (draw extra time)
Melb (7th) upset Carl (2nd)
Geel d Carl (half cats team out)
Melb d Foots (Lyon 10 goals)
Geel d NM (Ablett after siren - one of the greatest Prelims ever)
WCE d Melb (Eagles flex)
WCE d Geel (PARTY TIME )

So good

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[footyfan1978]

1994 is my all time fave final series

WCE d Coll (under a goal)
Geel d Foots (after the siren)
NM d Haw (draw extra time)
Melb (7th) upset Carl (2nd)
Geel d Carl (half cats team out)
Melb d Foots (Lyon 10 goals)
Geel d NM (Ablett after siren - one of the greatest Prelims ever)
WCE d Melb (Eagles flex)
WCE d Geel (PARTY TIME )

So good

It is actually my all time least fav finals series.
Best side but we were out in straight sets.
Incredible and never really got over that.

We did make up for it the next season winning 16 in a row to take out the premiership but I still mystified to this day how we lost all form at end of 1994.
1994 preliminary final was good though.

 

[X_box_X]

In heavy rain in Perth yesterday, West Perth clung to a 1-point lead late in a low-scoring match against Peel Thunder. Could the Thunder manage a point in the dying minutes to level the scores and produce not only the first WAFL draw in over 10 years, but the first draw for Peel in 25 years since their 1997 WAFL debut? Alas, it wasn't to happen, the Falcons kicking two more points late in the final quarter while the Thunder didn't score again and the final siren saw West Perth home by 3 points.

While there are indeed longer draw droughts in high level football (AFL, WAFL, SANFL, VFL/VFA, Under 18s, other state leagues) than Peel's 25 years - for example Coburg went 36 years from 1983-2019 without playing a draw while WAFL team East Fremantle haven't drawn since 1989 - are there any other examples of teams that took such a long time from debut to play a drawn match? (Not that Peel have drawn a game yet).

In the AFL, Essendon and Geelong took 14 years to draw matches in 1911 after their 1897 debuts, but the record belongs to Fremantle, the Dockers taking 18 years after their 1995 debut to draw a game against the Sydney Swans in 2013, and they haven't tied since.

Adelaide drew with the Saints in 1994 and didn't draw again until a few years ago against Collingwood IIRC. McGovern goal after the siren.

That's clearly the longest drought in Vfl/AFL

 

[X_box_X]

1994 is my all time fave final series

WCE d Coll (under a goal)
Geel d Foots (after the siren)
NM d Haw (draw extra time)
Melb (7th) upset Carl (2nd)
Geel d Carl (half cats team out)
Melb d Foots (Lyon 10 goals)
Geel d NM (Ablett after siren - one of the greatest Prelims ever)
WCE d Melb (Eagles flex)
WCE d Geel (PARTY TIME )

So good

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Also the last time a player kicked ten goals in a final.

 

[X_box_X]

Apart from Carlton in 1995 and Brisbane in 2001, have any other teams won the premiership after winning (exactly) their last 16 matches?

Geelong are on track for this.

 

[footyfan1978]

Apart from Carlton in 1995 and Brisbane in 2001, have any other teams won the premiership after winning (exactly) their last 16 matches?

Geelong are on track for this.

Interesting observation that for Carlton and Brisbane cases. They both lost two matches in a row before going on the 16 match winning streak to take the flag in those seasons.

 

[X_box_X]

Interesting observation that for Carlton and Brisbane cases. They both lost two matches in a row before going on the 16 match winning streak to take the flag in those seasons.

And Brisbane's winning streak began only thanks to a famous Arnold Schwarzenegger quote in Predator.

 

[X_box_X]

Between 1998-2003, the Bulldogs and Geelong played each other five times at Geelong's home ground. The Bulldogs won all five matches:







They have since played ten matches at Geelong between 2005 and 2021, with Geelong winning all ten matches.

Bulldogs five straight wins
Cats ten straight wins

What I'm hoping is for this trend to continue, resulting in the Bulldogs winning the next 20 matches against Geelong in Geelong.

Edit. I should have posted this in the 'stats observations' thread.

 

[Catsace]

Between 1998-2003, the Bulldogs and Geelong played each other five times at Geelong's home ground. The Bulldogs won all five matches:

View attachment 1456810
View attachment 1456811
View attachment 1456815
View attachment 1456816
View attachment 1456818

They have since played ten matches at Geelong between 2005 and 2021, with Geelong winning all ten matches.

Bulldogs five straight wins
Cats ten straight wins

What I'm hoping is for this trend to continue, resulting in the Bulldogs winning the next 20 matches against Geelong in Geelong.

Edit. I should have posted this in the 'stats observations' thread.

I think the 2001 and 2002 games Geelong had streamed out to quite a big lead before the likes of Eagleton, Brad Johnson etc would come alive and dominate. 2003, well ugh, Geelong were 10 goals down to a side that was 1-13-1 at that point, and the crowd was pretty angry at 3/4 time.

Always wondered why Rhode was so disliked as a coach, as he certainly had Geelong's number.

The late Ron the Bear confirmed that when the Dogs won the 2016 flag, they were the only side to win a Premiership with a 10 game losing streak against a club, being Geelong in their case. I doubt any Flag won by anyone else in future would match that.

 

[X_box_X]

I think the 2001 and 2002 games Geelong had streamed out to quite a big lead before the likes of Eagleton, Brad Johnson etc would come alive and dominate. 2003, well ugh, Geelong were 10 goals down to a side that was 1-13-1 at that point, and the crowd was pretty angry at 3/4 time.

Always wondered why Rhode was so disliked as a coach, as he certainly had Geelong's number.

The late Ron the Bear confirmed that when the Dogs won the 2016 flag, they were the only side to win a Premiership with a 10 game losing streak against a club, being Geelong in their case. I doubt any Flag won by anyone else in future would match that.

Yeah, Bevo made a point after the 2016 premiership that Geelong was the only team he had failed to beat in his two years of senior coaching.

In relation to the 2001 and 2002 comebacks, they were enjoyable for a Bulldogs supporter. The 2002 was pretty spectacular given we were seven goals down during the second quarter yet we were ahead at Half Time.

In the first meeting between the sides at Docklands (2000), I recall Geelong being about seven goals up in the second quarter in that match also. Despite Eagleton kicking a career high seven goals, you guys just managed to hang on.

And the match prior to that (1999 at Kardinia Park), Geelong were about four goals up with seven minutes to go, before the Bulldogs kicked five straight goals to win by seven points.

We had a habit of giving up early leads against you guys and having a bit of success coming from behind to win in those matches. We were known as the comeback Kings under Wallace.

Three of them came in the space of three weeks in 1999:




And the following week as previously mentioned (kicking the final five goals in seven mintues)



And the following week against Carlton, we fell five points short after being 17 points down with three minutes to go. I thought we were going to do it again!

 

[North park]

Yeah, there is a lot with three I could think of but four, the fact it only once was a little surprising. Becomes a lot easier with a final 8 now and very hard when it was a final four before 1972.

So the very first year of a final 8 was when it happened.
I attended two of those finals in that year which did not end well.
1988 was the last time Carlton and Collingwood played in a final together.
Amazing that 34 years back now.

It is surprising that Carlton, Collingwood, Geelong and Melbourne have competed in only one final series together before this year.

Also surprising that Carlton and Collingwood have not played each other in a final in 34 years, especially given their regular finals match-ups in the 1970s and 1980s.

There are a few other finals match-up 'droughts' that could possibly end this year.

While Melbourne and Geelong (2018 and 2021) and Collingwood and Geelong (2019 and 2020) have recently met in finals, the other combinations are many years ago:

Carlton v Collingwood - 1988 Qualifying Final
Collingwood v Melbourne - 1989 Elimination Final
Carlton v Geelong - 1995 Grand Final
Carlton v Melbourne - 2000 Qualifying Final

Three other long finals droughts could also end - Melbourne v Sydney 1987 Semi Final, Carlton v St.Kilda 1972 Preliminary Final, and Melbourne v Richmond all the way back in the 1940 Grand Final.

There could also be some first-time finals match-ups. Fremantle have never played Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, St.Kilda or Western Bulldogs in a final, while Carlton and the Bulldogs have also never met in a final.