Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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Blue__Balls said:
Bloke has a point that rookies get cycled heavily in the AFL? Not exactly groundbreaking. Even less so given our targeting of the early draft.

Post was clearly a drive by ;)
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It was driven because list building doesn’t stop with first rnd picks. I not blaming this on SOS. But he wears the hat. 5 years of rookie picks and hasn’t found anyone before 2018.
Is it recruiting or developing?

Here is a list of premiership rookies.
Castagna
Soldo
Pickett
Short
Baker
Lambert

And
Grimes PSD.

Stack best 22

You also need to strengthen your list through free agency ... Houli, Lynch.
Ellis is a gut running winger. If we don’t replace his run, then he will be missed.
Ellis would have cost nothing in terms of picks, so his value is worth more.
 

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nut said:
It was driven because list building doesn’t stop with first rnd picks. I not blaming this on SOS. But he wears the hat. 5 years of rookie picks and hasn’t found anyone before 2018.
Is it recruiting or developing?

Here is a list of premiership rookies.
Castagna
Soldo
Pickett
Short
Baker
Lambert

And
Grimes PSD.

Stack best 22

You also need to strengthen your list through free agency ... Houli, Lynch.
Ellis is a gut running winger. If we don’t replace his run, then he will be missed.
Ellis would have cost nothing in terms of picks, so his value is worth more.
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Context.

How much opportunity were we going to afford 18yo rookies when we were also bringing in 3-6 players each year inside the top 40? Answer: not much.

We used rookie spots to cycle through some mature age gap fillers so that we didn't have a squad of 35 kids plus a handful of old blokes.

We could have gone the other way, traded our early picks for quality mature agers, tried to find some nuggets in the rookie draft - but that's a strategy best left to clubs placed higher on the ladder who have worse draft picks to start with, stronger starting sides, and an environment where players are happy to toil away in the lower grade in the hopes they might get their chance in September if luck goes their way.
 
Ricky Mott said:
The CEO toured Ellis through the club behind SOS back. That is sackable!!
The conflict is the CEO has gathered his mates and put them in positions that now he has control of and can’t be challenged. Bad move by the Carlton Board. The conflict lies right there. SOS challenged his boys club in the interest of Carlton members.
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You might have the president and CEO confused. Because that's exactly what Mark Lo Giudice has done with his "independent" nominations committee
 
My two cents on the SOS Liddle fiasco.
PS, I only know what is reported via the press and a bit of gossip (even then its wrong)

Liddle is responsible for the club and all aspect of the club, even list management.
"no mans is greater than the club" and the club will be here long after I have gone.

So why sack the SOS (don't give me that rubbish "conflict of interest")
Why do you go outside the area of expertise and do list management without the department head knowing? Sending a message “he is not required” this was a very clear message.

Carlton was showing promise over the last 4 years, now its becoming a destination club.
So, bye SOS and thank you, I believe he did a great job and he has given a list I can believe in.
 
We’re not done yet at all. I've only just caught up on the news of the past few days and I have to say I am disgusted in how Liddle has treated Silvangi.

Not only is the man a Carlton legend; 2 time premiership player, full back of the century, adored by the Carlton faithful, but he is single handed reason as to why we are starting to rise back up the ladder once again.

When he took over as list manager back in 2015, our list was dead. We were hovering around mediocrity, we were reliant on older players to win us games who had well and truly passed their best. Yet he had the courage to go against the traditional Carlton way of doing things to take us on this list rebuild by going to the draft and clean the whole place out. While intially it was painful on the field, Silvangi saw the long term benefit the path we took. He was responsible all the young talent we got, for bringing in the likes of Jacob Wietering, Sam Petrevski-Seaton, Charlie Curnow, Sam Walsh and Paddy Dow. Player who we now hang our hops on to deliver us our next premiership. He was responsible for getting Caleb Marchbank, Lachie Plowman and Will Setterfield, who were initially declared GWS Recycled duds, but are now in our best 22. He's also a master deal maker. He saw the potential in getting Stocker and risked everything by swapping first round picks with the crows to get him. Given SOS's record so far, Stocker could be as good as Cripps or Walsh one day while the swap has proved to be a stroke of genius given our second half of the season and that the Crows missed the finals. Yet it was only a few weeks ago he made his smartest decision of all, rejecting Gold Coast's pathetic offer for Jack Martin and picking him up for NOTHING in the preseason draft.

Stephen Silvangi is the best thing that ever happened to the Carlton Football Club, we wouldn't be in the ****ing position we are in now, to be pushing for finals, if it wasn't for SOS. Now some unelected CEO, who has no prior connection to Carlton, who played no role in the rebuild, thinks he can just smash his fists on the table and pull all the strings without even consulting the Carlton members. His reason? Had nothing to do with his performance, it was because HE personally disliked the man. It was all because he didn't get his beloved Brandon Ellis to come across from Richmond, which by the way would have been a dumb move given he's age and our overall list strategy. Yet despite knowing NOTHING about football, Liddle still thinks he can get he's way even if it isn't in the best interest for the Carlton football club. Come on, we know it has nothing to do with his sons. This is just Liddle trying to find a scapegoat so he didn't have to admit the real reason. I never heard any issues about a "conflict of interest" last year from Liddle, nor at all this year. To Liddle personalities are bigger than the football club as a whole. Shame on the President as well, he's more like a constitutional monarch than a leader. Mr Invisible, thought he was friends with Silvangi, he has the power to OVERULE Liddle, yet he was either too scared, of a guy who is technically below him, or couldn't be bothered which seems to be the story of his tenure at Carlton. The board is a darn disgrace, how 1 man can sack arguably the most popular person at the club at the moment bar Teague all because he had a temper tantrum is extraordinary. Doesn't matter what spin Liddle tries to sell the members, I think we all know the real reason.

As a member I am disgusted. I thought we were over this "boys club" mantra which has stuck with us like a bad smell up until the last few years. If the board doesn't wanna listen to its members, than why should we even bother signing up? I wish we had a strong board who would actually challenge stupid decisions like this instead of an invisible president who is probably sitting on his arse playing pokies with Mathieson as we speak.
 

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"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

It's interesting to read some of the outrage regarding Silvagni's departure, and I'm grateful overall for the work he's done as list manager. I also loved watching him as a player and was constantly enthralled by his bravery on the field.

That said, I've also had several conversations over the years with past administrators who made clear that Silvagni was always about Silvagni. This was highlighted by his role in 'fessing up to the 'under the table' payments he received whilst a player over several years, which was a catalyst of the penalties which were imposed on our club.

Despite the high revenues and profiles of AFL teams, ultimately they're still just footy clubs, with the same internal squabbles occurring at them all. For those condemning the president and CEO, I'd suggest bearing in mind the overall health of the club compared to where we stood just a few short years ago. Finances are dramatically healthier, the playing list, potentially, is as good as it's been in decades and membership is on a significant upward trend.

Yes, I thank SOS for his contribution this time around, as I felt gratitude for his on-field performances. But I also note that this isn't the first occasion he's left the club under 'curious' circumstances.
 
The Flying Headband said:
No, were not done yet at all. I've only just caught up on the news of the past few days and I have to say I am disgusted in how Liddle has treated Silvangi.

Not only is the man a Carlton legend; 2 time premiership player, full back of the century, adored by the Carlton faithful, but he is single handed reason as to why we are starting to rise back up the ladder once again.

When he took over as list manager back in 2015, our list was dead. We were hovering around mediocrity, we were reliant on older players to win us games who had well and truly passed their best. Yet he had the courage to go against the traditional Carlton way of doing things to take us on this list rebuild by going to the draft and clean the whole place out. While intially it was painful on the field, Silvangi saw the long term benefit the path we took. He was responsible all the young talent we got, for bringing in the likes of Jacob Wietering, Sam Petrevski-Seaton, Charlie Curnow, Sam Walsh and Paddy Dow. Player who we now hang our hops on to deliver us our next premiership. He was responsible for getting Caleb Marchbank, Lachie Plowman and Will Setterfield, who were initially declared GWS Recycled duds, but are now in our best 22. He's also a master deal maker. He saw the potential in getting Stocker and risked everything by swapping first round picks with the crows to get him. Given SOS's record so far, Stocker could be as good as Cripps or Walsh one day while the swap has proved to be a stroke of genius given our second half of the season and that the Crows missed the finals. Yet it was only a few weeks ago he made his smartest decision of all, rejecting Gold Coast's pathetic offer for Jack Martin and picking him up for NOTHING in the preseason draft.

Stephen Silvangi is the best thing that ever happened to the Carlton Football Club, we wouldn't be in the ******* position we are in now, to be pushing for finals, if it wasn't for SOS. Now some unelected CEO, who has no prior connection to Carlton, who played no role in the rebuild, thinks he can just smash his fists on the table and pull all the strings without even consulting the Carlton members. His reason? Had nothing to do with his performance, it was because HE personally disliked the man. It was all because he didn't get his beloved Brandon Ellis to come across from Richmond, which by the way would have been a dumb move given he's age and our overall list strategy. Yet despite knowing NOTHING about football, Liddle still thinks he can get he's way even if it isn't in the best interest for the Carlton football club. Come on, we know it has nothing to do with his sons. This is just Liddle trying to find a scapegoat so he didn't have to admit the real reason. I never heard any issues about a "conflict of interest" last year from Liddle, nor at all this year. To Liddle personalities are bigger than the football club as a whole. Shame on the President as well, he's more like a constitutional monarch than a leader. Mr Invisible, thought he was friends with Silvangi, he has the power to OVERULE Liddle, yet he was either too scared, of a guy who is technically below him, or couldn't be bothered which seems to be the story of his tenure at Carlton. The board is a darn disgrace, how 1 man can sack arguably the most popular person at the club at the moment bar Teague all because he had a temper tantrum is extraordinary. Doesn't matter what spin Liddle tries to sell the members, I think we all know the real reason.

As a member I am disgusted. I thought we were over this "boys club" mantra which has stuck with us like a bad smell up until the last few years. If the board doesn't wanna listen to its members, than why should we even bother signing up? I wish we had a strong board who would actually challenge stupid decisions like this instead of an invisible president who is probably sitting on his arse playing pokies with Mathieson as we speak.
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Sorry but on one hand you complain it's a boys club and on the other you're upset with MLG for not looking after his "friend".
Secondly, you state we all know the real reason Silvagni is gone. Yes, a lot of us do but it appears to be different reasoning to yours.
Thirdly you call him the "unelected CEO". Is Brendon Gale elected? Is ANY CEO elected? I don't believe that has any relevance to his capability. As for him "smashing his fist on the table and pulling all the strings without consulting the Carlton members", what does that even mean? There's too many unsubstantiated rumours and fictional stories floating around from people who have zero knowledge of the machinations involved.

Some of the people on the list management committee have offered insights into what occurred, when and how. No one with any credibility has been able to dispute any of those facts. Yes there are fools who make unsubstantiated comments but it's not the reality.

I loved SOS as a player and I think he did a great job at rebuilding the list. But the conflict exists. Not just for SOS but people who deal with him on a day to day basis.

As for Liddle, you claim he knows nothing about football? He played TAC football and was drafted to Geelong where he played 4 games. He was a TAC and Vic Metro coach in the state championships. He has gone on to be in administration at 2 AFL clubs.
What are your qualifications or skills that would see you knowing more about football? I'm tipping Liddle knows a shitload more about AFL football than you, me and the rest of the posters here so let's not be silly with the accusations.
 
shagger said:
Sorry but on one hand you complain it's a boys club and on the other you're upset with MLG for not looking after his "friend".
Secondly, you state we all know the real reason Silvagni is gone. Yes, a lot of us do but it appears to be different reasoning to yours.
Thirdly you call him the "unelected CEO". Is Brendon Gale elected? Is ANY CEO elected? I don't believe that has any relevance to his capability. As for him "smashing his fist on the table and pulling all the strings without consulting the Carlton members", what does that even mean? There's too many unsubstantiated rumours and fictional stories floating around from people who have zero knowledge of the machinations involved.

Some of the people on the list management committee have offered insights into what occurred, when and how. No one with any credibility has been able to dispute any of those facts. Yes there are fools who make unsubstantiated comments but it's not the reality.

I loved SOS as a player and I think he did a great job at rebuilding the list. But the conflict exists. Not just for SOS but people who deal with him on a day to day basis.

As for Liddle, you claim he knows nothing about football? He played TAC football and was drafted to Geelong where he played 4 games. He was a TAC and Vic Metro coach in the state championships. He has gone on to be in administration at 2 AFL clubs.
What are your qualifications or skills that would see you knowing more about football? I'm tipping Liddle knows a shitload more about AFL football than you, me and the rest of the posters here so let's not be silly with the accusations.
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"but it appears to be different to yours", apologies but I haven't read many of the other comments so I don't know what everyone elses was. Based on media reports though, the conflict over recruiting Ellis appears to be the number 1 conflict of interest between the 2. This is a direct quote out of The Age "A more cohesive football club would have found a way to navigate the differences between Silvagni, a favourite son, and his chief executive, which played out in the course of 2019, although some club insiders say these differences – most notably over free agent Brandon Ellis – were exaggerated". Yes there were other reasons such as Silvangi being on the outer due to Liddle's close relationships with other departments, but I think its pretty obvious Ellis was the tip of the ice burg. Do you honestly think it would have been a smart decision to recruit Ellis from a list standpoint? Do you also think its right that personal relationships should determine someones value within a football club? I think most of us agree Silvangi was doing an excellent job as list manager. As they say a picture tells a thousand words


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Liddle is no different than Malthouse in bringing across Daisy and Wood, how did that work out for us in the first few years?

I think the president and CEO's from all football clubs should be elected by the members, considering were the football clubs most valuable assets after the players.

I still don't buy this argument that SOS had conflicts with others in the football department. Where's the proof? Why haven't we heard about any of this throughout the whole season. Why is it all these issues with Silvangi only start to emerge after Liddle throws a fit about not getting Ellis?
 
The Flying Headband said:
"but it appears to be different to yours", apologies but I haven't read many of the other comments so I don't know what everyone elses was. Based on media reports though, the conflict over recruiting Ellis appears to be the number 1 conflict of interest between the 2. This is a direct quote out of The Age "A more cohesive football club would have found a way to navigate the differences between Silvagni, a favourite son, and his chief executive, which played out in the course of 2019, although some club insiders say these differences – most notably over free agent Brandon Ellis – were exaggerated". Yes there were other reasons such as Silvangi being on the outer due to Liddle's close relationships with other departments, but I think its pretty obvious Ellis was the tip of the ice burg. Do you honestly think it would have been a smart decision to recruit Ellis from a list standpoint? Do you also think its right that personal relationships should determine someones value within a football club? I think most of us agree Silvangi was doing an excellent job as list manager. As they say a picture tells a thousand words


View attachment 792253
Liddle is no different than Malthouse in bringing across Daisy and Wood, how did that work out for us in the first few years?

I think the president and CEO's from all football clubs should be elected by the members, considering were the football clubs most valuable assets after the players.

I still don't buy this argument that SOS had conflicts with others in the football department. Where's the proof? Why haven't we heard about any of this throughout the whole season. Why is it all these issues with Silvangi only start to emerge after Liddle throws a fit about not getting Ellis?
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This bit..

"I think the president and CEO's from all football clubs should be elected by the members,"

If what has been blindly vented, the knee jerk reactions and general histrionics witnessed here over the past week or so, is an accurate sample size of the broader membership base, I think it probably best we advise against this!!

Opinions are merely like ar$eholes everyone has one, insight however is like being kissed on the d!ck by a fairy. Very rare and you know it when you come across it. To this point lots of the former not much of the later. So onwards and upwards.

Looking forward to the footy to start!

Have a good Christmas Bluebaggers.
 
To say SOS was let go because of a conflict of interest is false..he did not even partake in discussions regarding his sons and never used his position for his sons gain, he never recruited or done anything remotely close to advancing his sons interests to my knowledge...so va fa to culo to the disgraceful allegation that was made by Liddle in the club statement.

Liddle goes on to say that SOS was let go because he was unable to partake in all strategic decisions regarding all players therefore the football department is not running at its optimal level.

I thought maintaining non participation regarding his sons was the point but I suppose he had to say something.

The truth imo was that SOS was sacked mid year at board level and the sub committee was created; as the idiotic de Luca overruling would suggest, as the tours behind SOS back with full backing would suggest and ultimately as the Betts saga unfolded but by that time he knew what was going and thought it would be a befitting end.

His employment status was kept a secret because he was preparing for papley and Martin which would be great gets.

The problem ended up being that we started winning games of football...and the knee jerk decision mid year came home to roost as baggers finally got a taste.

In a perfect world; I’m sure this would’ve been handled in a much better way.

Surely we couldnt go back..or could we?

I hope when the list starts challenging that SOS can sit back and watch his boys go at it with Serge.

Caaarnn Caaarlton!!
 
Arr0w said:
Oh my, how did I miss this pearler
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I was asked a question, and answered it, if you want to be a smart arse, go ahead stick a feather in your ear and flap your arms, the run way is clear.

Alternatively you could have been paying attention 8 days a go and been a smart arse then.
 
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LeonardHayes87 said:
Apparently Saints bound.

Haven’t kept tabs on SOS since he left us in 2011 but seems to have done a great job setting up your list for long term success.
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He’s a gun. If your club is lucky enough to secure him, you’ll be in for an amazing ride as far as list trading and drafting goes. I’ll even silently barrack for him to continue kicking butt come trade and draft time. Hope he lands at your club.
 
LeonardHayes87 said:
Apparently Saints bound.

Haven’t kept tabs on SOS since he left us in 2011 but seems to have done a great job setting up your list for long term success.
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If this happens, then it's further evidence that SOS had huge sway with MLG.

Lethlean was rumoured to have been offered our CEO role until the board knocked it back. Has been a few comments suggesting Lethlean and SOS are good mates.
 

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Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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