Steve Johnson - Better than Daicos!

[Chewy]

Steve Johnson is an entertaining footballer to watch, but he would have to be one of the more overrated footballers ever to play AFL. He did nothing in his first 5 years. So we're basically talking about Stevie J of the past 6 years, averaging 50 goals a year (same as Milne) for a side that has lacked goal-kicking key forwards.

How many best and fairests has Johnson won? How many times has Johnson finished in the TOP FIVE of his club's best and fairest? If Johnson was as good people said, he would've won a couple of best and fairests, or at least made the TOP 5 on one occasion.

I don't think he has done either.

Daicos was a champion footballer from the word go, whose prime years were wrecked by injuries, but he still produced the goods in his latter years, won best and fairests as Collingwood's centreman and nearly kicked 100 goals in 1990.

Daicos was not only much better than Johnson, but he was also better to watch. Same foot skills, same vision & creativity, but he had better hands and did everything quicker. He played lower to the ground and had a shorter, quicker turning circle.

 

[footscore]

Steve Johnson is an entertaining footballer to watch, but he would have to be one of the more overrated footballers ever to play AFL. He did nothing in his first 5 years. So we're basically talking about Stevie J of the past 6 years, averaging 50 goals a year (same as Milne) for a side that has lacked goal-kicking key forwards.

How many best and fairests has Johnson won? How many times has Johnson finished in the TOP FIVE of his club's best and fairest? If Johnson was as good people said, he would've won a couple of best and fairests, or at least made the TOP 5 on one occasion.

again
you know nothing about the game except your own team and players.

Steve Johnson had chronic ankle issues when he started his career.
Not only were they bad but he broke his ankle one night early in his career which again set him back for a couple of years.
You may notice the way he walks, duck-like in a sense, ankles have been a major reason why he failed to live upto his full potential early on and if you still don't want to believe me.........I'll send you some links because I'm sure you won't take serious injuries such as his into consideration (being Geelong and all which you clearly detest)

When he did get well and it was time to play footy, he did however play poorly for a couple of seasons, so much that his own teammates had enough of him and the club put him up for trade (ironically Collingwood were very interested).
He worked hi arse off on the training track and his game took off from then on and he has not looked back since.

 

[Chewy]

Still Johnson is a champ in his own right and I'd prefer him being compared to the great man than Steven Milne who they were calling the greatest forward pocket ever on the radio earlier this year.

This.

The thread should be about Steve Johnson vs Stephen Milne

It's a much better comparison

 

[Chewy]

again
you know nothing about the game except your own team and players.

Steve Johnson had chronic ankle issues when he started his career.
Not only were they bad but he broke his ankle one night early in his career which again set him back for a couple of years.
You may notice the way he walks, duck-like in a sense, ankles have been a major reason why he failed to live upto his full potential early on and if you still don't want to believe me.........I'll send you some links because I'm sure you won;t take serious injuries such as his into consideration (being Geelong and all which you clearly detest)

Cyril Rioli has had serious hamstring issues for his entire 5 year career in the AFL, but that hasn't stopped him from playing good footy and it hasn't prevented you and every other peanut from bagging the crap out of him. Why should Johnson's dicky ankles be used an alibi?


Let me know when Steve Johnson gets close to being one of Geelong's best players in a season and then maybe we can discuss his worth against players like Daicos. I remember looking at the Geelong best and fiarest voting from 2007-2011 and I think Johnson may have finished 6th one year and that was his best. Most other years, he was 8th, 9th or 10th. This year he was 7th.

Daicos won 2 Copeland Trophies (and these weren't the seasons when he kicked 97 and 75 goals)

 

[Cursed Cat]

Steve Johnson is an entertaining footballer to watch, but he would have to be one of the more overrated footballers ever to play AFL.
.

I'm not sure it's actually possible to be a selected in four Grand Final sides and be 'one of the more overrated footballers to ever play AFL.'

You make Johnson out to be as overrated as Cyril Rioli, but he has been an absolute architect in the forward line during an extended period of success for Geelong.

Both Milne & Johnson have been consistently successful small/mid-sized forwards over an extended period while Cyril has never taken the next step toward being a consistently damaging forward, despite the almost unbearable hype that surrounds his every move on the field.
Over their careers, Johnson has Milne & Rioli covered in most statistical categories, Rioli is in front on free kicks per game, tackles and handballs. Milne has an edge in goal average over Johnson, but is well down on Johnson in possessions, and Johnson's possessions are generally damaging.

Overall I agree that Daicos/Steve Johnson is probably not the most apt match-up; different types of players but each has been among the most skillful & dangerous players of their era. I'd definitely give the nod to Daicos, but Johnson is a unique player and has been a key ingredient to Geelong's era of success.

 

[Conan Troutman]

This.

The thread should be about Steve Johnson vs Stephen Milne

It's a much better comparison

forwardflanker is saying he would rather Steve Johnson be compared to Daicos, rather than Milne being compared to Daicos.

Steve Johnson vs Milne - no one but you is saying that.
You may have trolled just a little too hard there Chewy.

 

[footscore]

Geelong's golden era where we won 3 flags in 5 years
and St Kilda's golden era where they had to run into us, Collingwood and Sydney:

Johnson averaged 20 disposals, 5 marks, 3.5 tackles, 1.8 goals & 0.8 goal assists in 14 finals matches
Milne averaged 11 disposals, 3.5 marks, 2.5 tackles, 1.6 goals & 0.4 goal assists in 11 final matches

Look at their careers:
Milne has averaged 12 disposals (5 of them contested), 3.6 marks, 2 tackles, 2 goals & 0.6 goal assists per game over the span of 12 season and 258 games.
Johnson has averaged 18 disposals (6.5 contested), 5.5 marks, 2.5 tackles, 2 goals & 1 goal assist per game over his 11 seasons and 196 games.


Johnson not only has Milne covered for average amount of goals but he's also able to play midfield or down back while Milne plays forward pocket and that's it.

 

[kidkenobi]

Yeah but assists are only valuable when it's unlikely you can make the goal yourself. Daicos didn't need assists because he'd never miss.

Also the two goals that Daicos kicked in the 1990 GF and the miracle goal in the prelim are better than anything Johnson did in 2011.

Daicos averaged more behinds per game than Stevie J currently does. I think Daicos get a few bonus points for doing things that in those days the majority of guys would only try on the training track, however Stevie J has also left his mark on the game and has challenged the accepted norms.

Both guns and make the game better to watch Regardless of who is better, I'm glad for Daicos, for if nothing else, he inspired Johnson to become what he has today.

 

[DidakDelight]

You are seriously overrating Modra's play. He was a great aerialist and very good on the lead, but not so great once the ball was on the ground. Unless he could grab the ball on the first hop and had the time to wheel around, he was ineffective.

He was pretty sharp at getting his boot to ball for close range soccer goals (like Lloydy) but his actual footy smarts and team play were non-existent. Modra was la slightly better version of Warwick Capper - quicker, more explosive, better on the lead. asically a lead out and mark type of full forward. Not very versatile, the defensive pressure and tackling were non existent.

Neither Capper nor Modra kicked many goals once the full back had negated their one-on-one marking battle. Franklin gets the majority of goals from these situations. For Buddy's opponents, the danger starts once they've spoiled the initial contest.

You make a lot stupid comments on Big Footy, but saying that Modra would shit on Buddy in the air and on the ground is right up there as one of your most idiotic.

Very hard to disagree with any of this

 

[forwardflanker]

Daicos averaged more behinds per game than Stevie J currently does. I think Daicos get a few bonus points for doing things that in those days the majority of guys would only try on the training track, however Stevie J has also left his mark on the game and has challenged the accepted norms.

Both guns and make the game better to watch Regardless of who is better, I'm glad for Daicos, for if nothing else, he inspired Johnson to become what he has today.

Yeah I'm not disputing the fact that Johnson is champion, I just don't see any valid argument to say that he was better than Daicos. I'm not saying that you never saw him play, but clearly a lot of people in here advocating Johnson never saw Daicos play. No player has come close to scoring the ridiculous goals that he did on such a regular basis. Even more amazing is that if you check out any of his highlights reels he has scored just as many ridiculous goals on his left as his right, not to mention, other than Blight, I doubt there has been anyone better at the torp than him.

A lot of people forget that we won the 1990 GF without a dominating tall forward. There's a good chance we wouldn't have made the GF, let alone the win it without Daicos. Could that ever be said about Johnson, who was always playing in one of the all time great sides.

Daicos along with Bartlett and Mathews are light years ahead of anyone in terms of GOAT forward pocket.

 

[Grizzly_82]

Yeah I'm not disputing the fact that Johnson is champion, I just don't see any valid argument to say that he was better than Daicos. I'm not saying that you never saw him play, but clearly a lot of people in here advocating Johnson never saw Daicos play. No player has come close to scoring the ridiculous goals that he did on such a regular basis. Even more amazing is that if you check out any of his highlights reels he has scored just as many ridiculous goals on his left as his right, not to mention, other than Blight, I doubt there has been anyone better at the torp than him.

A lot of people forget that we won the 1990 GF without a dominating tall forward. There's a good chance we wouldn't have made the GF, let alone the win it without Daicos. Could that ever be said about Johnson, who was always playing in one of the all time great sides.

Daicos along with Bartlett and Mathews are light years ahead of anyone in terms of GOAT forward pocket.

SJ won the Norm smith in '07 with one of the most dominating side the cats had ever , and was vital for us and played very well injured in the 2011 GF .

I think you don't realise how important SJ is to our team considering he plays very well in the midfield as well as a roaming forward.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Cyril Rioli has had serious hamstring issues for his entire 5 year career in the AFL, but that hasn't stopped him from playing good footy and it hasn't prevented you and every other peanut from bagging the crap out of him. Why should Johnson's dicky ankles be used an alibi?


Let me know when Steve Johnson gets close to being one of Geelong's best players in a season and then maybe we can discuss his worth against players like Daicos. I remember looking at the Geelong best and fiarest voting from 2007-2011 and I think Johnson may have finished 6th one year and that was his best. Most other years, he was 8th, 9th or 10th. This year he was 7th.

Daicos won 2 Copeland Trophies (and these weren't the seasons when he kicked 97 and 75 goals)

Brad ottens never made it close to a B and F, but he was absolutely integral to the dynasty! Steve Johnson, equally as important.

His first 5 years also contained plenty of great footy, he just found consistency over the last 6....which is very similar to a bloke named Gaz Jnr, whom I don't think even you could argue is right up there with the all time greats.

Seriously, you need to watch a few more SJ games...perhaps I could recommend the 07, 09 prelims and the 2011 GF for starters as he seems to save his better games for the Pies.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Stevie J is a freak and great player.
Daicos was a freak and great player.
Comparisons between eras is dumb IMO, I have loved watching some Stevie magic over the years and love to watch old highlights of Daics at the top of his game.
Why do we need the pissing contests?

 

[Thommo 42]

Stevie J, growing up as a mad Collingwood supporter with Peter Daicos as his idol would be embarassed by this comparison.

As good as SJ is, and I love the man - Daicos was in a completely different league. People say that we see some of the stuff Daicos did so often these days, which is true, but when Daicos was doing it, he was the ONLY one doing it and he was doing it every week. He was ahead of his time and a pioneer.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

i think you can classify Ablett senior as a KPF or full forward. i am talking about non-KPF kicking 100 goals.

Only from 1993-1995, and not all of that time either.

Kicked plenty of goals form a HFF/Wing

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Brownlow votes, All-Australian numbers and B&F results would match up well. Ablett Snr was a great, but Pavlich has carried a mediocre team like no other over the past decade. If Pav played for a successful Melbourne-based club over the journey, he'd go down as good as Ablett Snr.

In a thread full of shocking posts, this one stands out.

 

[nineteen eighty]

SJ is mercurial but he doesn't get close to Daicos. Hate saying it but Daicos was an absolute star.

I agree and it pains me to be agreeing with you

SJ is great to watch but Daicos was something else...and then some. I can't put SJ in the same bracket as Daicos. And that's not denigrating SJ in the slightest. To be merely compared to the great man Daics is an enormous complement!

 

[STC]

This.

The thread should be about Steve Johnson vs Stephen Milne

It's a much better comparison

No it isn't. Milne isn't an elite midfielder too.

Is he as good as Daicos? Not at some things, but at others. It's the other things that Stevie J can do that make him elite - I'd rather Milne dribble it in from the pocket but I'd still take SJ over Milne every day of the week.

There are very few players in the competition you wish could be playing in two different positions at once. SJ is one of those players.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Stevie J, growing up as a mad Collingwood supporter with Peter Daicos as his idol would be embarassed by this comparison.

As good as SJ is, and I love the man - Daicos was in a completely different league. People say that we see some of the stuff Daicos did so often these days, which is true, but when Daicos was doing it, he was the ONLY one doing it and he was doing it every week. He was ahead of his time and a pioneer.

Ditto SJ....no-one in the league even attempts some of the degrees of difficulty that he consistently pulls off. SJ has already pioneered the set shot snap and is probably one of the most clever users of the lookaway pass. He is doing things that others can't....Daicos v SJ is a relevant and worthy comparison, and let's not forget he has a good 4 years to go!

 

[DidakDelight]

If you look at the highlights of Daicos, he was regularly doing the set shot snap before Johnson, he ain't no pioneer.

Like 7seconds into this?

 

[4#Didak#4]

Waiting for the "Tom Hawkins - Better than Plugger!" thread.

 

[Go Hoops]

Both top players with the x factor. Daicos by a nose.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Waiting for the "Tom Hawkins - Better than Plugger!" thread.

The thread wasn't started by a Geelong supporter, so the thread you've mentioned is no more likely than a Swan > Diesel thread.

 

[betchsta]

Waiting for the "Tom Hawkins - Better than Plugger!" thread.

Waiting for the "Collingwood's Dynasty "better than Geelong's" thread.

 

[i_hate_scams]

Only from 1993-1995, and not all of that time either.

Kicked plenty of goals form a HFF/Wing

so you are telling me he kicked 100 goals playing on the wing?