Stolen generation ‘better off’

[Qsaint]

Or how about put some effort into improving the conditions themselves? The situation of a huge amount of Aboriginal Australia is diabolical - the solution is not taking away all their kids and doing sod all else.

Funky what else can we do?

Beattie thretened to take most of the children off Palm Island a couple of years ago because the place was out of control and child abuse rapant. We either 'steal' them or leave them to their plight. The current left wing thinking is let them rot they will be better off.

When the Govt trys to not be paternalistic, for instance allowing the communities to spend there tax refund how they like they use it on 3 Road Trains worth of Grog as a couple did last year.

For the aboriginal communities in plight to get a better deal they have to be combined in viable sized towns, the govt needs to provide services and somehow we need to provide employment prospects. Still even if this is achieved the aboriginals will have to want like Noel Pearson to dig themselves out.

 

[Qsaint]

There's no ending to the damage Christian fundementalists cause.

To this day people try and justify the fascist ****.

Whilst I don't mind hitting Hillsong with a 2 by 4, and there were some bad minister involved, Often no one else would look after the most disenfranchised in society other than the Christians

 

[Chief]

Funky what else can we do?

Beattie thretened to take most of the children off Palm Island a couple of years ago because the place was out of control and child abuse rapant. We either 'steal' them or leave them to their plight. The current left wing thinking is let them rot they will be better off.

This implies that there are only two solutions - take them away or do nothing - and that 'lefties' as an entire group would prefer that they died in squalor. Ridiculous.

Even the 'righties' who are gracious enough to say that is not the intent of 'lefties' say that as the effect is the same the 'lefties' are to blame anyway (intent being irrelevant).

Now, as far as I can see, for about a dozen years the 'righties' have been in power. Apart from pretending that an Aboriginal family has the resources to get a $400,000 loan for a dilapidated thirty year old house, what has been done in that time?

 

[Contra Mundum]

This implies that there are only two solutions - take them away or do nothing - and that 'lefties' as an entire group would prefer that they died in squalor. Ridiculous.

Even the 'righties' who are gracious enough to say that is not the intent of 'lefties' say that as the effect is the same the 'lefties' are to blame anyway (intent being irrelevant).

Now, as far as I can see, for about a dozen years the 'righties' have been in power. Apart from pretending that an Aboriginal family has the resources to get a $400,000 loan for a dilapidated thirty year old house, what has been done in that time?

We all remember "Practical Reconciliation" which in effect has amounted to Mal Brough issuing press statements about how badly the States are handling Aboriginal Domestic Violence

 

[Qsaint]

This implies that there are only two solutions - take them away or do nothing - and that 'lefties' as an entire group would prefer that they died in squalor. Ridiculous.

Even the 'righties' who are gracious enough to say that is not the intent of 'lefties' say that as the effect is the same the 'lefties' are to blame anyway (intent being irrelevant).

Now, as far as I can see, for about a dozen years the 'righties' have been in power. Apart from pretending that an Aboriginal family has the resources to get a $400,000 loan for a dilapidated thirty year old house, what has been done in that time?

Well again got any better ideas? There are no jobs on Palm Island more cops (not all of them great) than you can poke a stick at, even to Beatie there was 2 choices. If we take non aboriginal kids of their parents, why can't we take aboriginal kids?

10's of millions have been spent nothing has changed, perhaps we should try something different

 

[MSR273]

This implies that there are only two solutions - take them away or do nothing - and that 'lefties' as an entire group would prefer that they died in squalor. Ridiculous.

Yet, aboriginal children have been left to die and suffer in squalor because of hyper sensitivity to the stolen generation myth.

Now, as far as I can see, for about a dozen years the 'righties' have been in power. Apart from pretending that an Aboriginal family has the resources to get a $400,000 loan for a dilapidated thirty year old house, what has been done in that time?

As far as I know, it is the state governments who run the child welfare departments responsible for removing at risk children. To lay the blame for this at the feet of the federal government is unreasonable.

 

[rayven]

Whilst I don't mind hitting Hillsong with a 2 by 4, and there were some bad minister involved, Often no one else would look after the most disenfranchised in society other than the Christians

I am talking about the policies of the church not the hearts of some of the followers.

The most disenfranchised ever in society are pagans.

They never looked after Pagans as christianty plagaurised there belifes and myths and festivals and even gods.

This country was taken by force by a society bursting at the seems, the properganda to justify this invasion and resulting slaughter goes along way to why the "stolen generation" was justified and us white people excepted it.

 

[Mossie]

Come on ... be honest...you are using this as a "left" bashing excercise

You couldn't care less about them do you?

See you didn't answer this..say's it all really

 

[fabulousphil]

The stolen generation are better off in general IMO but as usuual there are exceptions to the rule.

Some kids were obviously "stolen" from good families but the bulk were "stolen" from drunken abusive parents.

The more kids they get out of the typical aboringinal cycle of drugs and violence and sexual abuse the better off everyone will be.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

There's no ending to the damage Christian fundementalists cause.


To this day people try and justify the fascist ****.

What the **** did the atheists do to help them?

Sweet F.A

They'd have left them there to rot

 

[MSR273]

See you didn't answer this..say's it all really

yes, it says it was a stupid post

 

[Chief]

Yet, aboriginal children have been left to die and suffer in squalor because of hyper sensitivity to the stolen generation myth.

When you stop parroting Andrew Bolt, then I might listen. Until then your arguments are just so much hyperbole and bluster.

 

[Chief]

The stolen generation are better off in general IMO but as usuual there are exceptions to the rule.

Some kids were obviously "stolen" from good families but the bulk were "stolen" from drunken abusive parents.

The more kids they get out of the typical aboringinal cycle of drugs and violence and sexual abuse the better off everyone will be.

You do realise you're voicing some hard-core socialist dogma there don't you? The state is all, the family unit is nothing.

 

[funkyfreo]

There are probably many kids who were shipped out from the UK as "orphans" whose families are better off today than had they stayed in the UK too.

Does that make it a great policy?

 

[MSR273]

There are probably many kids who were shipped out from the UK as "orphans" whose families are better off today than had they stayed in the UK too.

Does that make it a great policy?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by better off. If it means that they aren't;

- addicted to drugs
- sexually abused
- neglected by drunken parents
- neglecting their own kids
- spending a large percentage of their time in jail
- assualting and robbing innocent members of society
- committing suicide

then yeah it was great policy.

But what is most disturbing is the perpetuation of the cycle of abuse by leaving children at severe risk with their abusive parents. That is the main issue.

 

[estibador]

You do realise you're voicing some hard-core socialist dogma there don't you? The state is all, the family unit is nothing.

But what if by breaking up some families now we ensure that the next generation of familes are given the chance to escape from the cycle of abuse and alcoholism. Better for the state yes, but more importantly better for the individuals invoved.

BTW I'm not necessarily talking about sending children to suburbia to be brought up 'white'. Aboriginal run hostels for abused children is a great start, if run properly. Some friends of my family, an Aboriginal couple, are doing a fantastic job in Perth of housing 8 or 9 disadvantaged kids and giving them the chance for a safe upbringing and proper education. At risk children can still be given a safe haven without being cut off from their culture.

 

[funkyfreo]

But what if by breaking up some families now we ensure that the next generation of familes are given the chance to escape from the cycle of abuse and alcoholism. Better for the state yes, but more importantly better for the individuals invoved.

BTW I'm not necessarily talking about sending children to suburbia to be brought up 'white'. Aboriginal run hostels for abused children is a great start, if run properly. Some friends of my family, an Aboriginal couple, are doing a fantastic job in Perth of housing 8 or 9 disadvantaged kids and giving them the chance for a safe upbringing and proper education. At risk children can still be given a safe haven without being cut off from their culture.

The argument is not that I think proactive intelligent solutions tailored to the great needs of or abiriginal communities are bad - sure some kids are beter off in some sort of care.

The argument is that there is no valid argument that the Stolen Generation policies were good.

Jews are probably better off since WW2...

 

[estibador]

The argument is that there is no valid argument that the Stolen Generation policies were good.

Ok fair enough. I've gotten sidetracked on the effect that the past has had on the situation of kids that I see today.

For the record, in no way do I defend any policies of the past to remove Aboriginal children carte blanche regardless of just cause to do so.

 

[Richo83]

I never knew taking a child from they parents and placing him or her in care of a family she or he doesn't know is beneficial.

Oh well, could be a new wave of child care, Australia wide swapping of children.

And btw can we stop quoting Bolt? This is the guy who still doesn't believe in global warming ffs, he's an idiot.

 

[Brown Bottle]

I refer to the myth of the stolen generation

What's next? Will you deny the holocaust as well?

 

[funkyfreo]

I never knew taking a child from they parents and placing him or her in care of a family she or he doesn't know is beneficial.

Don;t throw the bvaby out with the bathwater Richo. Of course there are situations where kids need care. My family has been heavily involved in fostering when I was younger kid, one of whom was very severly treated and for all I know in her mid 20s is probably in a right mess. Others were kids who just needed a break (or their folks did) FOR A WIDE RANGE OF REASONS. (excuse caps) My cousin was adopted from a family who locked her in cupboards, cut her arms and stubben ciggies out on her skin.

but the thread is not about adoption or fostering or care - it appears to be about how the Stolen Generation was a good policy - which is clearly absurd.

 

[Richo83]

Don;t throw the bvaby out with the bathwater Richo. Of course there are situations where kids need care. My family has been heavily involved in fostering when I was younger kid, one of whom was very severly treated and for all I know in her mid 20s is probably in a right mess. Others were kids who just needed a break (or their folks did) FOR A WIDE RANGE OF REASONS. (excuse caps) My cousin was adopted from a family who locked her in cupboards, cut her arms and stubben ciggies out on her skin.

but the thread is not about adoption or fostering or care - it appears to be about how the Stolen Generation was a good policy - which is clearly absurd.

I wasn't talking about children in general, but relating to the topic.

As in, I never knew taking a child (aboriginal) from they parents and placing him or her in care of a family she or he doesn't know (some random middle-class white family) is beneficial.

Is that better? Sorry if I came across as confusing.

 

[funkyfreo]

Is that better? Sorry if I came across as confusing.

In the face of extreme right wing views I fully understand that it is easy to misplace some emphasis or whatever

The stolen generation was an assumption that living in an aboriginal community was a bad thing - and made no discrimination between good and bad parenting. it just took people from poor communites, in the hope those communities would die and we could rid ourselves of the stain of our indigenous borthers and sisters.

The modern version, however, of trying to keep kids with families, I'd have thought applies to all parents regardless of race. maybe it is too far, maybe not, but it has nothing to do with the blight of the stolen generation.

 

[MSR273]

What's next? Will you deny the holocaust as well?

Why would I deny the holocaust. There is actual evidence to support that it occurred .

 

[funkyfreo]

Why would I deny the holocaust. There is actual evidence to support that it occurred .

it is amazing you can post so much in a thread about the benefits of a period in history you don't think existed.