Strong rumour - Bux to coach

[MarkT]

Collingwood are in an interesting position on this. They might want to grab Buckley so no-one else gets him, but there is no other reason they need to take a punt on an untried coach. And the more strong development the young Magpies show this season, the harder it will be to justify shifting Malthouse.

How long does Malthouse get before he has to start justifying his continuation and the club doesn’t have to justify a change?

I look at it the other way around. After a decade it is MM who should have to justify staying rather than the club having to justify changing coach. No flags in a decade and consistently losing finals with the same shortfalls in team make-up is prima facie a ticket out the door – or should be. I keep hearing how good a job Maltyhouse does with an ordinary list. If that is true then it is his ordinary list. Personally I think the list is under rated and the coach is over rated.

To quote an old election slogan:

IT’S TIME!

North on the other hand are not going forwards on field as well as Collingwood, or as they should be, notwithstanding injuries, so there's a better case for change - and with our less strong off-field position, fewer experienced coaching options are in our budget, and we've more reason to take a chance to bring the excitement factor into play.

Perhaps it’s time for North as well. I don’t see how Collingwood have done anything but tread water for 5 years. That’s Laidley’s whole career.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

To be fair, this - getting Buckley - is something we've been discussing at length on the North board basically since it became obvious last year laidley would go - the Port/finals loss then the McIntosh trade stuff up.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

How long does Malthouse get before he has to start justifying his continuation and the club doesn’t have to justify a change?

I look at it the other way around. After a decade it is MM who should have to justify staying rather than the club having to justify changing coach. No flags in a decade and consistently losing finals with the same shortfalls in team make-up is prima facie a ticket out the door – or should be. I keep hearing how good a job Maltyhouse does with an ordinary list. If that is true then it is his ordinary list. Personally I think the list is under rated and the coach is over rated.

To quote an old election slogan:

IT’S TIME! Perhaps it’s time for North as well. I don’t see how Collingwood have done anything but tread water for 5 years. That’s Laidley’s whole career.

The two clubs do have a lot in common with these coaches. Collingwood has a wonderful finals record that we don't, which may come back to Mick's greater experience coaching at that level, but a lot of sameness about the game style and personal style, and the overachieving underdog business. I'm not surprised to hear the same concerns from both sets of supporters about continuing with the incumbents.

 

[Chapter 11]

Buckley would be mad to go to North IMO. This may anger the North supporters on here (and I apologise in advance), but due to Norths financial state, they are essentially a 2nd class citizen in the AFL. Poor facilities, limited support staff, every penny spent probably needs 5 sign-offs, and probably selling off a few home games. Its the place where elite players (like Judd) steer clear of, and the same should go for elite coaches.

It would be twice as hard to win a flag at North, as it would be at, say, Essendon for example. I'm not saying it cant be done, and it has, but with the world supposedly open to Buckley, there is no need to start behind the 8-ball on day 1 of his coaching career.

 

[rb214]

Buckley would be mad to go to North IMO. This may anger the North supporters on here (and I apologise in advance), but due to Norths financial state, they are essentially a 2nd class citizen in the AFL. Poor facilities, limited support staff, every penny spent probably needs 5 sign-offs, and probably selling off a few home games. Its the place where elite players (like Judd) steer clear of, and the same should go for elite coaches.

It would be twice as hard to win a flag at North, as it would be at, say, Essendon for example. I'm not saying it cant be done, and it has, but with the world supposedly open to Buckley, there is no need to start behind the 8-ball on day 1 of his coaching career.

Mate I am guessing you were typing this with the best of intentions. But please explain why we have been the second or third most sucessful team in the past 20 years. And no it wasnt just because of Carey. Even the past 5 years with an average team we have done well.

Try the last 40 years as well.

Richmond and Collingwood have a lot more cash than us, compare their records with ours. You can't buy character.

 

[Z_K]

Buckley would be mad to go to North IMO. This may anger the North supporters on here (and I apologise in advance), but due to Norths financial state, they are essentially a 2nd class citizen in the AFL. Poor facilities, limited support staff, every penny spent probably needs 5 sign-offs, and probably selling off a few home games. Its the place where elite players (like Judd) steer clear of, and the same should go for elite coaches.

It would be twice as hard to win a flag at North, as it would be at, say, Essendon for example. I'm not saying it cant be done, and it has, but with the world supposedly open to Buckley, there is no need to start behind the 8-ball on day 1 of his coaching career.

I'm 26 and have seen my side play in 9 prelims.

Horrible run. I don't know how we cope.

 

[HUTCHYHAIR]

Big mail out of the North Melbourne Football Club today that Nathan Buckley is there man for next year. Can't mention names but the guy has played for 2 inner city clubs..... Could even be sitting on a coaching review panel!!!
As they "time will tell"

 

[Two Eyes]

I'm keen to see Buckley coach and I could live with it being North. Pies fans have to accept he may never return to Collingwood, it just happens that way sometimes. See Lethal and Hawthorn.

On the other hand it wouldn't hurt Buckley to be an assistant coach for a couple of years, thing is, I don't think young coaches like Knights, Rattan or Bailey would be keen to have such a highly touted assistant coach, so his options might be limited. I reckon Geelong would be a good option.

 

[goalpie]

Arocca running a club, couldnt run a pub. It doesnt surprise me the Kangaroos are in so much trouble. He would have got the job a Collingwood if he had have been deemed capable.

 

[numchuks]

Arocca running a club, couldnt run a pub. It doesnt surprise me the Kangaroos are in so much trouble. He would have got the job a Collingwood if he had have been deemed capable.

There's no suprise why the Magpies are making $6 milllion losses. Look at who their President is, a failed CEO who ran Channel 9 into the ground and almost ruined the station

But keep blaming Swann and Arocca and everybody else for your Pub disaster. lmao

 

[goalpie]

There's no suprise why the Magpies are making $6 milllion losses. Look at who their President is, a failed CEO who ran Channel 9 into the ground and almost ruined the station

But keep blaming Swann and Arocca and everybody else for your Pub disaster. lmao

Its not looking to good at the moment. Road kill.

 

[MarkT]

I'm 26 and have seen my side play in 9 prelims.

Horrible run. I don't know how we cope.

I know where you are coming from and I am a believer that North Melbourne have character and that does impact results however if you really looked at the drivers of success you could easily put a large chunk of the credit down to:

Mid 70’s: Smart administration and daring actions.

Early/mid 90’s to early 00’s: good recruiting and tight footy department with a good dose of luck/skill in landing Carey, Longmire and Archer thanks largely to Greg Miller (who later became a burden but at least you flicked him to damage Richmond so all’s well that ends well).

OK that is over simplifying it but these factors are not present going forward. The rules are different so as it stands it is hard to see a repeat.

Basically North and everyone else are at the mercy of equalisation and their own ability to exploit it. Unfortunately the AFL don’t want North (or any other existing club in an established football state) to be successful they are pre occupied with another group of start-ups. North’s ability to exploit the reverse ladder draft now they have slipped a bit on the field is impeded by the desire form success in the north.

So why would Buckley choose to go to North. It’s pretty simple, he is a smart man and he understands money doesn’t drive success at football clubs it just allows less stress. He’d go to North if he had confidence in the administration.

 

[mattys123]

Perfect situation this for Collingwood.

Let Buckley coach North for 2 years, let him do his apprenticeship, then grab him at the end of his initial contract.

I believe Buckley needs several years of coaching experience before he is ready to coach a team to its full potential, so 2-3 years at Nth, then down the road to the Lexus Centre once MM leaves.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Would certainly boost North's profile and would get the people going to matches. I rate Buckley. He talks very well in the media and seems to have very good knowledge of the game (as most champions) but more importantly he is smart. He's good at analyzing a game and has some very intelligent special comments. Now I'm not saying just because he's a good commentator he can become a good coach but he seems like a person with good attention to detail when looking at football. While he's a punt as he hasn't had a coaching "apprenticeship" I reckon he has the potential to be a very fine coach. North would do well to get him.

 

[snrub]

Arocca running a club, couldnt run a pub. It doesnt surprise me the Kangaroos are in so much trouble. He would have got the job a Collingwood if he had have been deemed capable.

You have "Perty".

 

[snrub]

Buckley would be mad to go to North IMO. This may anger the North supporters on here (and I apologise in advance), but due to Norths financial state, they are essentially a 2nd class citizen in the AFL. Poor facilities, limited support staff, every penny spent probably needs 5 sign-offs, and probably selling off a few home games. Its the place where elite players (like Judd) steer clear of, and the same should go for elite coaches.

It would be twice as hard to win a flag at North, as it would be at, say, Essendon for example. I'm not saying it cant be done, and it has, but with the world supposedly open to Buckley, there is no need to start behind the 8-ball on day 1 of his coaching career.

http://www.kangaroos.com.au/arden street plans/tabid/10191/default.aspx


A brand, spanking new $16 million facility opening around the time that the new coach takes the reigns. But don't let your ignorance or lack of research spoil your argument.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

It amazes me how the same old tired incorrect tripe about North just recycled again and again.

Buckley isn't stupid - he knows where we stand on and off field.

 

[Bubble Wrap]

Realistically you have no idea do you? You just realised Rocca worked at Collingwood and thought you'd make a thread saying Buckley will go to North. I'm pretty sure the source for all this is your head.

If I was to suggest someone had no idea, I would make sure I knew the difference between a centre half forward (Rocca) and a CEO (Arocca).

Eugene Arocca is a pretty shrewd operator, I can imagine he and Buckley getting along well. I'd love to have Arocca at Collingwood instead of that bumbling fool Pert, but our loss is North's gain.

The main obstacle to Buckley at North is that having no previous experience, there is added scrutiny on his performance (those that believe assistant coaching experience is required will be lining up to say "I told you so"). A club that may not always have the best facilities or the ability to pay 100% of the salary cap might make it harder for him to have success relatively quickly. Having said that, he might relish that challenge.

I hope he does and succeeds - something else to add to the list of stuff ups resulting from the Eddie and Mick love-in.

 

[Bubble Wrap]

http://www.kangaroos.com.au/arden street plans/tabid/10191/default.aspx


A brand, spanking new $16 million facility opening around the time that the new coach takes the reigns. But don't let your ignorance or lack of research spoil your argument.

Good on North for the new development, but we all know that there's a lot more to a football department than the building it works from.

North cannot afford the same level of support staff as some of the larger clubs, in terms of assistant coaches, medical staff, etc. Without knowing for sure, I doubt they have the full complement of rookies, nor could they afford to invest heavily in talent from overseas, etc. All those things do add up.

I'm sure Bucks knows exactly where things stand at North, and I hope he, and North, do well if he did end up coaching. But there would be some challenges that he wouldn't have to deal with if he was coaching someone more financially secure.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

. Without knowing for sure, I doubt they have the full complement of rookies, nor could they afford to invest heavily in talent from overseas, etc. All those things do add up.

You've made some good posts on this thread so I'll be gentle.

I believe we do have the full complement of rookies. In fact, we've been remarkably successful with rookies.

Cruize Garlett debuting this week. Matt Campbell, Mick Firrito, Ben Ross, all have come off the rookie list.

We have an Irish guy on our list: Conor Meredith.

Seriously, the cash thing is so overspun. There's an effective minimum you need to be hitting to be as competitive as anyone else and if you at that, you're grand. Low altitude flights are a big toss in my book. Its more wang waving than anything else.

Buckley will be inetersted in a few things.

The list for a start. North have a good young list and some quality veterans. You can see Buckley being very happy to work with an emerging talent like Ziebell in one regard and established champs like Simpson and Boomer at the other.

Stability: despite the received wisdom of the various mouthbreathers who frequent these threads, North is actually remarkably stable at the moment. We may not have much cash in the bank, but we are stable.

The club has been returned to its members and the members are united behind Arocca and Brayshaw. They have a plan and we'll stick with them. Neither is going anywhere.

Compare and contrast with say Richmond. That's stability.

So Buckley has a talented young list to work with, brand new facilities, a stable management team, an excellent club culture and I would suspect, pretty much carte blance on the support team he wants to recruit and the way he wants to operate.

Seriously, he's not going to get a better deal anywhere else.

 

[Zvim]

Buckley would be mad to go to North IMO. This may anger the North supporters on here (and I apologise in advance), but due to Norths financial state, they are essentially a 2nd class citizen in the AFL. Poor facilities, limited support staff, every penny spent probably needs 5 sign-offs, and probably selling off a few home games. Its the place where elite players (like Judd) steer clear of, and the same should go for elite coaches.

It would be twice as hard to win a flag at North, as it would be at, say, Essendon for example. I'm not saying it cant be done, and it has, but with the world supposedly open to Buckley, there is no need to start behind the 8-ball on day 1 of his coaching career.

Look, there is a massive difference between what we spend on football and what Collingwood does, none of our supporters are questioning that.

But, by November our new facilities will be complete and they will be as good as what is available at Lexus, tha advantage we have is the stuff going in is years ahead of what went into Lexus, anything built recently has an advantage over stuff built years ago.

But, we don't spend as much in other areas. We won't have high altitude training in Arizona, we don't over-pay assistants. We pay everything we can afford to pay, we have been generating more revenue of late and the bulk of that has gone into the football department.

Once the stadium deal issue is resolved, I don't think there will have to cut any corners at all. We will never spend as much as Collingwood or Eagles, but really, you don't need to. Sure, Eagles can get anyone be an assistant for them and pay them $600k a year, but realistically, the talent pool is that deep that we can pay $200k and probably end up with someone just as good, they are just not the first choice of the richer clubs.

North has struggled since the 90s for one major reason, we stopped the development of youth. We were the leaders of junior development in the 80s, we didn't build a great side because we got Carey and Longmire to the club, we built a strong side because we spent the time and effort in junior development and that is as important today as it was back then.

If you can get the most out of your young kids then you are a red hot shot at a flag. Our standard slipped. From recruiting to development, we have started to address that.

Realistically, there is very little difference between most sides. You are only as good as your players have developed. You picked Fraser, Cloke, etc and they haven't become the players you had hoped and had they been you would have been a much stronger side with a real chance at a flag.

A lot of work goes into the top talent but after that it is a black hole, yet North with the smallest football budget and only one guy employed to evaluate young players in comparison to a dozen by rich clubs has probably the best record of turning later picks and rookie picks into AFL grade players.

According to the budget variance, that doesn't make any sense at all. But 3/4 of our kids were passed over by every other clubs.

$$$ doesn't equal success. Bucks might have thought that in the late 80s but he got a very rude reality check. Reality is, if we recruit better and develop better than anyone else we will have ultimate success, you don't need a massive budget to do that.

 

[Chapter 11]

My view is that the very small clubs (North, Melbourne, Dogs)can win flags when all the stars align, and one of their recruits becomes almost player of the century. Otherwise it seems top 4 is the ceiling. Western Buldogs are in that zone at the moment. All three, apart from a Carey-led North havent been able to land a flag at their peak.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

My view is that the very small clubs (North, Melbourne, Dogs)can win flags when all the stars align, and one of their recruits becomes almost player of the century. Otherwise it seems top 4 is the ceiling. Western Buldogs are in that zone at the moment. All three, apart from a Carey-led North havent been able to land a flag at their peak.

We haven't been at our peak since Carey.

What about Hawthorn? They almost died in recent memory. Same with Geelong.

Your theory is, unsurprsingly, flawed.

 

[Chapter 11]

We haven't been at our peak since Carey.

What about Hawthorn? They almost died in recent memory. Same with Geelong.

Your theory is, unsurprsingly, flawed.

Unsurprisingly ? Based on what?

Anyway, Hawthorn and Geelong arent classified as small clubs.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Unsurprisingly ? Based on what?

Anyway, Hawthorn and Geelong arent classified as small clubs.

On the grounds that you are unlisted, a noob, and have made a series of posts recently littered with tired old assumptions, factual errors and egeneral floggery.

The point is we may be 'small' now but both Hawthorn and Geelong were in deep trouble - Hawthorn pulling very low crowds only 5 years ago - and they bounced back to become premiers.