Suns in the Media - Part I

[GC2015]

Recruitment is always going to be difficult for the Suns until success is realistic.

Why would any player move clubs? Aside from a personal reason (Weller) it's either money or success. Dunkley moved to Brisbane because they are a better chance of winning a flag, at least in the next couple of years.

With the number of high draft picks on the list, the Suns can't offer massive money to A-graders, so success is the only thing that will get most of them interested. And until that is seen as likely it's always going to be tough to get top players to the club.

Although I do agree in general that recruitment will become easier once we start having genuine success, Brisbane proved with Lachie Neale that it's not always the case. Neale had no link to Brisbane and the Lions had just finished 15th on the ladder, yet they found a way to convince one of the most promising young midfielders in the league to join them. Brisbane have dispelled a lot of myths about Queensland football over the last few years and this is one of them. Another myth that they dispelled over the last few years is the idea that a team in Queensland needs extra salary cap room to be competitive but that's clearly not true either. There's really no justifiable excuse for 10 years of mediocrity when you look at what Brisbane has achieved.

I understand it's not easy to run an AFL team in Queensland but I also know we can't keep making excuses if we want this team to be successful. I remember hearing every excuse in the book from Brisbane supporters 10 or so years ago but at a certain point they stopped making excuses and just accepted their situation while finding a way to make it work. Credit where it's due - they figured it out and we should be commending them just as much as anyone because we face very similar challenges to them and understand intimately how difficult it is to achieve what they have over the last five years. I would love nothing more than for us to embark on a five year journey like them starting this year and I really hope that's what 2023 has in store for us.

I feel like we can also learn a lot from the Swans and how important an academy can become if you resource it correctly. We may not always be in the running for A-graders but a constant stream of talented juniors from our zone can really flip the script in that sense. Outside of Buddy, the Swans really haven't had a significant recruiting coup in the last 20 years and yet they've found a way to compete in 16 of the last 20 finals series. How did they do it? I know they used to get a lot of credit for the 'Bloods Culture' and the way that they would develop drafted players but these days people don't really talk about that and it appears its their academy that continues to keep them competitive with players like Callum Mills, Isaac Heeney, Nick Blakey, Braeden Campbell, Erol Gulden etc all being outstanding academy prospects that they were able to secure. Now we finally appear to have our own impressive academy crop coming through over the next few years and I really hope this is the beginning of us following suit so we aren't so reliant on external recruiting in the future.

I think it's not as simple. 3 years ago, Levi wanted to continue playing with Blues and we would have to overpay him a lot is my guess, and he would still say probably no. Just look at how much we had to pay to lure Ellis, Atkins, Long (if you believe numbers). Playing finals should make it much easier for us to recruit players.

I think it worked out perfectly. We got him as a rookie on my guess is 120K and he exceeded expectations as a depth. Don't forget even last year most people were saying WTF for Casboult as a depth.

I know it's not simple but this is what a recruitment manager is paid to figure out. We can't just let a guy like Scotty Clayton come in and coast for years because he can hide behind a pretence like 'we need to spread the age gap'. When you think back on it, we really should have secured another top line midfielder in his prime to team up with Ablett or a top line key forward in his prime to show Dixon and Lynch the way during that 2013-14 period when we were climbing the ladder and were primed to qualify for the finals for the first time. Instead Clayton decided to draft more 18 year olds like Kolodjashnij, Leslie and Lemmens who always were going to take years before they significantly contributed and there's also no guarantee that they were ever going get there like we saw with KK.

We need recruiting staff who will actively make moves every year and try their best to convince the next Lachie Neale to join us so we can hopefully open as many finals windows as possible. I understand we're not going to land big name players every year but to have virtually nothing happen for 10 years is very lacklustre IMO. I'm not sure how many on this board follow the NBA but if you do then you would understand that the Miami Heat is the exact model we should be trying to replicate. Small market team that can offer a tropical lifestyle and is run by an unbelievable president/recruiting manager named Pat Riley. He found a way to make Miami more appealing than the some of the biggest markets in the world like New York/Los Angeles and that was proven in 2010 when he secured league MVP Lebron James' signature ahead of every other NBA team. There's no reason why we can't be the AFL's version of the Miami Heat.

 

[Jirik13]

Although I do agree in general that recruitment will become easier once we start having genuine success, Brisbane proved with Lachie Neale that it's not always the case. Neale had no link to Brisbane and the Lions had just finished 15th on the ladder, yet they found a way to convince one of the most promising young midfielders in the league to join them. Brisbane have dispelled a lot of myths about Queensland football over the last few years and this is one of them. Another myth that they dispelled over the last few years is the idea that a team in Queensland needs extra salary cap room to be competitive but that's clearly not true either. There's really no justifiable excuse for 10 years of mediocrity when you look at what Brisbane has achieved.

I understand it's not easy to run an AFL team in Queensland but I also know we can't keep making excuses if we want this team to be successful. I remember hearing every excuse in the book from Brisbane supporters 10 or so years ago but at a certain point they stopped making excuses and just accepted their situation while finding a way to make it work. Credit where it's due - they figured it out and we should be commending them just as much as anyone because we face very similar challenges to them and understand intimately how difficult it is to achieve what they have over the last five years. I would love nothing more than for us to embark on a five year journey like them starting this year and I really hope that's what 2023 has in store for us.

I feel like we can also learn a lot from the Swans and how important an academy can become if you resource it correctly. We may not always be in the running for A-graders but a constant stream of talented juniors from our zone can really flip the script in that sense. Outside of Buddy, the Swans really haven't had a significant recruiting coup in the last 20 years and yet they've found a way to compete in 16 of the last 20 finals series. How did they do it? I know they used to get a lot of credit for the 'Bloods Culture' and the way that they would develop drafted players but these days people don't really talk about that and it appears its their academy that continues to keep them competitive with players like Callum Mills, Isaac Heeney, Nick Blakey, Braeden Campbell, Erol Gulden etc all being outstanding academy prospects that they were able to secure. Now we finally appear to have our own impressive academy crop coming through over the next few years and I really hope this is the beginning of us following suit so we aren't so reliant on external recruiting in the future.


I know it's not simple but this is what a recruitment manager is paid to figure out. We can't just let a guy like Scotty Clayton come in and coast for years because he can hide behind a pretence like 'we need to spread the age gap'. When you think back on it, we really should have secured another top line midfielder in his prime to team up with Ablett or a top line key forward in his prime to show Dixon and Lynch the way during that 2013-14 period when we were climbing the ladder and were primed to qualify for the finals for the first time. Instead Clayton decided to draft more 18 year olds like Kolodjashnij, Leslie and Lemmens who always were going to take years before they significantly contributed and there's also no guarantee that they were ever going get there like we saw with KK.

We need recruiting staff who will actively make moves every year and try their best to convince the next Lachie Neale to join us so we can hopefully open as many finals windows as possible. I understand we're not going to land big name players every year but to have virtually nothing happen for 10 years is very lacklustre IMO. I'm not sure how many on this board follow the NBA but if you do then you would understand that the Miami Heat is the exact model we should be trying to replicate. Small market team that can offer a tropical lifestyle and is run by an unbelievable president/recruiting manager named Pat Riley. He found a way to make Miami more appealing than the some of the biggest markets in the world like New York/Los Angeles and that was proven in 2010 when he secured league MVP Lebron James' signature ahead of every other NBA team. There's no reason why we can't be the AFL's version of the Miami Heat.

IMO, Clayton actually assembled pretty unbelievable list. Comparable to what we got now even Swallow said that. I watched some games 2012-14 recently and it was mostly impressive style. Imagine healthy and in their prime - Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Prestia, May, Thompson, Lynch, Dixon.

IMO, opinion, Suns should bring in 3-4 more mature players when they started but they run out of money and AFL did not allow it according to McKenna. Then injuries killed Suns with not adequate environment and overloading young players contributing.

As for Lions, all credit to Fagan, Noble and Swann. They did fabulous job and Lions were lucky AFL put them there. But let's not propagate a myth that Lions convinced Neale to join them. I am too lazy to search for it, but I am pretty sure it was Swann who said in his interview that Lions could not believe their luck when Neale contacted them that he wants to join them. They could not understand why. It turned out that Neale is a footy nerd, analysed lists and decided Lions is the best place for him. I believe Lions got in that year also Lyons and McCarthy which is credit to them and were good acquisitions.

Besides Neale, another critical aspect of Lions jumping from 17th to 2nd was unbelievable no injury run for like 3 years which allowed Lions to build synergy, continuity. So, credit should also go to Lions performance/medical staff. Once they started winning everything has changed. Players got confidence, average players suddenly looked great, more players interested to join them, etc. Even this year, Lions should have a full list available for the official practice game although something like 4 players had mostly shoulder/groin surgeries in the off-season.

Imagine if Suns had no injury like Lions had when they bolted into top 4. I am confident we would play finals even last year if all players were on the field. Not sure how Rigby and his team could have prevented all those knees, ankle injuries. Sometimes luck is needed. 6 ACLs in 2 years is the opposite.

Yes, I am a bit annoyed when Cochrane, Evans talk about quality (top) players contacting us, interested to join us and nothing happened. Hopefully now with cap in a decent shape and more promise that will change. But let's not kid ourselves, playing finals would help enormously with recruiting and keeping cap in check.

 

[Jirik13]

Continuation of my post. For those interested, Swann on Neale. Just maybe there is another top player this time liking what Suns are doing

He has had a blistering start to the season, averaging 38 disposals per game and Swann said he initially had no idea why Neale wished to come to Brisbane.

“I’m actually on list management and I probably shouldn’t tell this story because it’s against myself and the club, but when it was raised that we were a chance to get him, I sort of looked at our list manager Dom Ambrogio and said what the hell does he want to come to us for?” Swan told SEN’s Whateley.

“He comes from South Australia, he’s playing in Perth, what’s he coming to Brisbane? Has he got family here?

“(Ambrogio) goes no, no, he just likes what we’re doing.

How the Lions reacted to learning Neale wished to join the club

"I’m actually on list management and I probably shouldn’t tell this story because it’s against myself and the club..."

www.sen.com.au

 

[RowellAnderson12]

IMO, Clayton actually assembled pretty unbelievable list. Comparable to what we got now even Swallow said that. I watched some games 2012-14 recently and it was pretty impressive style. Imagine healthy and in their prime - Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Prestia, May, Thompson, Lynch, Dixon.

IMO, opinion, Suns should bring in 3-4 more mature players when they started but they run out of money and AFL did not allow it according to McKenna. Then injuries killed Suns with not adequate environment and overloading young players contributing.

As for Lions, all credit to Fagan, Noble and Swann. They did fabulous job and Lions were lucky AFL put them there. But let's not propagate myth that Lions convinced Neale to join them. I am too lazy to search for it, but I am pretty sure it was Swann who said in his interview that Lions could not believe their luck when Neale contacted them that he wants to join them. They could not understand why. It turned out that Neale is a footy nerd, analysed lists and decided Lions is best place for him. I believe Lions got in that year also Lyons and McCarthy which is credit to them and were good acquisitions.

Besides Neale, another critical aspect of Lions jumping from 17th to 2nd was unbelievable no injury run for like 3 years which allowed Lions to build synergy, continuity. So, credit should also go to Lions performance/medical staff. Once they started winning everything has changed. Players got confidence, average players suddenly looked great, more players interested to join them, etc. Even this year, Lions should have a full list available for the official practice game although something like 4 players had mostly shoulder/groin surgeries in the off-season.

Imagine if Suns had no injury like Lions had when they bolted into top 4. I am confident we would play finals last year if all players were on the field. Not sure how Rigby and his team could have prevented all those knees, ankle injuries. Sometimes luck is needed. 6 ACLs in 2 years is the opposite.

Yes, I am a bit annoyed when Cochrane, Evans talk about quality (top) players contacting us, interested to join us and nothing happened. Hopefully now with cap in a decent shape and more promise that will change. But let's not kid ourselves, playing finals would help enormously with recruiting and keeping cap in check.

I'm a firm believer injuries just ruined alot of our development in the last decade.

We could just never get a run, from O'Meara's knees to Rory's knees.

I vividly remember a game against Essendon where we had our 9th best midfielder as our starting mid because everyone else was injured, managed to lose a goal.

Now no more excuses, the only one would be a tough early draw? But we've had soft draws to start the year every year so not really one to cry about.

We gotta break out, time to win a final.

 

[Jirik13]

I'm a firm believer injuries just ruined alot of our development in the last decade.

We could just never get a run, from O'Meara's knees to Rory's knees.

I vividly remember a game against Essendon where we had our 9th best midfielder as our starting mid because everyone else was injured, managed to lose a goal.

Now no more excuses, the only one would be a tough early draw? But we've had soft draws to start the year every year so not really one to cry about.

We gotta break out, time to win a final.

I am actually hoping Swans and Cats games early is good for us. Usually, Grand Finalists are not in their best early and our pressure should be at top level.

Similarly, last year we took it to Melbourne and I would say were a bit unlucky to not beat them. If only we converted our opportunities

 

[TheSunGod]

I am actually hoping Swans and Cats games early is good for us. Usually, Grand Finalists are not in their best early and our pressure should be at top level.

Similarly, last year we took it to Melbourne and I would say were a bit unlucky to not beat them. If only we converted our opportunities

I think we need Touk’s hamstrings to be 100% to have a good chance of beating both Sydney and Geelong. Fingers crossed he’s ready to go Round 1.

 

[Jirik13]

I think we need Touk’s hamstrings to be 100% to have a good chance of beating both Sydney and Geelong. Fingers crossed he’s ready to go Round 1.

4 weeks should be more than enough for tight hamstring. Fingers crossed it's not worse.

 

[TheSunGod]

4 weeks should be more than enough for tight hamstring. Fingers crossed it's not worse.

Hope so. Would be great to see him get some practice match minutes in beforehand though he’s such a pro it wouldn’t surprise if he just picks up where he left off last year.

 

[Jirik13]

Hope so. Would be great to see him get some practice match minutes in beforehand though he’s such a pro it wouldn’t surprise if he just picks up where he left off last year.

Most probably no chance against Essendon but if it's only awareness he could play against GWS but my guess is that we will not see him in practice games.

 

[TheSunGod]

Most probably no chance against Essendon but if it's only awareness he could play against GWS but my guess is that we will not see him in practice games.

Yeah hopefully he’s good for even a half against GWS. Still, gives Flanders and others the opportunity to impress.

 

[Jirik13]

Yeah hopefully he’s good for even a half against GWS. Still, gives Flanders and others the opportunity to impress.

In the spirit of Flanders Hype thread, after Flanders replacing Miller, people will be saying "Who needs Touk?"

 

[GC2015]

IMO, Clayton actually assembled pretty unbelievable list. Comparable to what we got now even Swallow said that. I watched some games 2012-14 recently and it was mostly impressive style. Imagine healthy and in their prime - Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Prestia, May, Thompson, Lynch, Dixon.

Did he though? Ablett was offered more money than he could possibly consider turning down which is what's possible when you have a blank cap. I get that GAJ was the best player in the league at the time but in terms of a premiership window it didn't give us a lot of wiggle room to team a 27 year old Ablett up with a bunch of 18 year olds. Even if everything went right and we got those 18 year olds to hit their straps after 3-4 years in the league then you're dealing with a ridiculous amount of salary cap tied up in one player in his 30s who could physically decline at any moment. The window was so small when you really think about it because Ablett's salary was always going to hurt out ability to recruit/retain other players and we were really just relying in the idea that we would be playing finals by that stage and players would take less to stay with us.

If you look at the first round picks from the 2010 draft class, you could easily argue we had more misses than hits. Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch and Tape. I would say Swallow, Prestia and Lynch have all lived up to their top 10 pick billing but the others are questionable. Bennell had the talent but couldn't control his off field problems, Day has had an underwhelming career for a pick 3, Caddy played a few good games but not as good as you'd expect from a top 10 pick (plus he was on the first flight home), Gorringe was a complete flop and even admits that himself and then Tape was also a disappointment. Now I understand you can't nail every pick in a draft but when we had access to players like Andrew Gaff (pick 4), Dyson Heppell (pick 8), Brodie Smith (pick 14), Cam Guthrie (pick 23) and Jack Darling (pick 26) then it makes you wonder. Add in the fact that our age issue got even worse by going after O'Meara and Martin while also passing on a local in Zorko that would go on to have an outstanding AFL career (I know you guys hate him but you can't deny he's had a really solid AFL career), then I really have a lot of questions about our recruiting staff back then...

Was that team good enough to play finals? Yes, albeit with a small window caused by Ablett's exorbitant salary. Was that team good enough to win a premiership? I don't think so and we were cap tied to the point that we couldn't really add to it. The best we could have hoped for was a GWS like run where we made a prelim or two but there's no way we would have been able to beat Hawthorn's triple premiership team during that period. We put way too much money into one player and went way too young with our list build. GWS did the opposite and didn't put ridiculous money into one player and were clever about recruiting talented guys in the 20-22 year old range like Ward and Davis so they would still be in their prime years when the original draft crop kicked on. We needed more guys like 23 year old Jarrod Harbrow and less guys like 27 year old Jared Brennan, 28 year old Nathan Bock, 28 year old Campbell Brown and 29 year old Josh Fraser. I won't go as far as to say we shouldn't have recruited a 27 year old Gary Ablett Jr but it certainly didn't make a whole lot of sense when you really get down to the nitty gritty of trying to assemble a team that can play finals/win premierships.

Continuation of my post. For those interested, Swann on Neale. Just maybe there is another top player this time liking what Suns are doing

How the Lions reacted to learning Neale wished to join the club

"I’m actually on list management and I probably shouldn’t tell this story because it’s against myself and the club..."

www.sen.com.au

That's interesting but let's not forget these guys and their managers are fairly aware of which clubs have cap room and which don't. Let's not forget the $1 million price tag Brad Crouch tried to hover over our heads a few years ago. Do you think Crouch really wanted to join us or was he just trying to secure a godfather deal from a desperate team that might be willing to give it to him? I'm sure Neale did his homework on Brisbane's list but he was also aware of the fact that the Lions had the kind of cap room that made it possible for him to secure a very nice pay packet and, perhaps more importantly, Fremantle didn't because they were already sinking huge money into Fyfe. Just remember some of these guys are as much businessmen as they are athletes and they know there's a small window in their mid 20s where they can get paid a lot of money that will set them up for the rest of their lives.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Lynch Dixon Day
Ablett Swallow Bennel Prestia Caddy
May Thompson Bock

Pretty decent

 

[Jirik13]

Did he though? Ablett was offered more money than he could possibly consider turning down which is what's possible when you have a blank cap. I get that GAJ was the best player in the league at the time but in terms of a premiership window it didn't give us a lot of wiggle room to team a 27 year old Ablett up with a bunch of 18 year olds. Even if everything went right and we got those 18 year olds to hit their straps after 3-4 years in the league then you're dealing with a ridiculous amount of salary cap tied up in one player in his 30s who could physically decline at any moment. The window was so small when you really think about it because Ablett's salary was always going to hurt out ability to recruit/retain other players and we were really just relying in the idea that we would be playing finals by that stage and players would take less to stay with us.

If you look at the first round picks from the 2010 draft class, you could easily argue we had more misses than hits. Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch and Tape. I would say Swallow, Prestia and Lynch have all lived up to their top 10 pick billing but the others are questionable. Bennell had the talent but couldn't control his off field problems, Day has had an underwhelming career for a pick 3, Caddy played a few good games but not as good as you'd expect from a top 10 pick (plus he was on the first flight home), Gorringe was a complete flop and even admits that himself and then Tape was also a disappointment. Now I understand you can't nail every pick in a draft but when we had access to players like Andrew Gaff (pick 4), Dyson Heppell (pick 8), Brodie Smith (pick 14), Cam Guthrie (pick 23) and Jack Darling (pick 26) then it makes you wonder. Add in the fact that our age issue got even worse by going after O'Meara and Martin while also passing on a local in Zorko that would go on to have an outstanding AFL career (I know you guys hate him but you can't deny he's had a really solid AFL career), then I really have a lot of questions about our recruiting staff back then...

Was that team good enough to play finals? Yes, albeit with a small window caused by Ablett's exorbitant salary. Was that team good enough to win a premiership? I don't think so and we were cap tied to the point that we couldn't really add to it. The best we could have hoped for was a GWS like run where we made a prelim or two but there's no way we would have been able to beat Hawthorn's triple premiership team during that period. We put way too much money into one player and went way too young with our list build. GWS did the opposite and didn't put ridiculous money into one player and were clever about recruiting talented guys in the 20-22 year old range like Ward and Davis so they would still be in their prime years when the original draft crop kicked on. We needed more guys like 23 year old Jarrod Harbrow and less guys like 27 year old Jared Brennan, 28 year old Nathan Bock, 28 year old Campbell Brown and 29 year old Josh Fraser. I won't go as far as to say we shouldn't have recruited a 27 year old Gary Ablett Jr but it certainly didn't make a whole lot of sense when you really get down to the nitty gritty of trying to assemble a team that can play finals/win premierships.


That's interesting but let's not forget these guys and their managers are fairly aware of which clubs have cap room and which don't. Let's not forget the $1 million price tag Brad Crouch tried to hover over our heads a few years ago. Do you think Crouch really wanted to join us or was he just trying to secure a godfather deal from a desperate team that might be willing to give it to him? I'm sure Neale did his homework on Brisbane's list but he was also aware of the fact that the Lions had the kind of cap room that made it possible for him to secure a very nice pay packet and, perhaps more importantly, Fremantle didn't because they were already sinking huge money into Fyfe. Just remember some of these guys are as much businessmen as they are athletes and they know there's a small window in their mid 20s where they can get paid a lot of money that will set them up for the rest of their lives.

As for Neale, I was just addressing your claim that Lions convinced him to join them when in fact he chose them first.

It's almost impossible to attract top player when at the bottom especially interstate. I have no doubt Cameron, Dew do their best. Chol first interview was telling. Dew was still calling him every day even after his commitment to make sure he does not change his mind. BTW, Chol could be our best recruitment so far. If we pay him around speculated 400K that's pretty unbelievable considering his output in first year.

As for the list under Clayton, one thing is to bring players in the other one is how the club develop them, performance/medical environment, injuries and so on. I am with Swallow - that list was as good as it is now. And Clayton was a list manager in that time - so he deserves some credit for it like it or not. If they were allowed to bring 3-5 more experienced players as they wanted and had perfect environment to develop kids - who knows what would happen. Did Clayton or Cameron make mistakes? For sure. All list managers do including Lions and other teams ones.

 

[Ben Drever]

Although I do agree in general that recruitment will become easier once we start having genuine success, Brisbane proved with Lachie Neale that it's not always the case. Neale had no link to Brisbane and the Lions had just finished 15th on the ladder, yet they found a way to convince one of the most promising young midfielders in the league to join them. Brisbane have dispelled a lot of myths about Queensland football over the last few years and this is one of them. Another myth that they dispelled over the last few years is the idea that a team in Queensland needs extra salary cap room to be competitive but that's clearly not true either. There's really no justifiable excuse for 10 years of mediocrity when you look at what Brisbane has achieved.

I understand it's not easy to run an AFL team in Queensland but I also know we can't keep making excuses if we want this team to be successful. I remember hearing every excuse in the book from Brisbane supporters 10 or so years ago but at a certain point they stopped making excuses and just accepted their situation while finding a way to make it work. Credit where it's due - they figured it out and we should be commending them just as much as anyone because we face very similar challenges to them and understand intimately how difficult it is to achieve what they have over the last five years. I would love nothing more than for us to embark on a five year journey like them starting this year and I really hope that's what 2023 has in store for us.

I feel like we can also learn a lot from the Swans and how important an academy can become if you resource it correctly. We may not always be in the running for A-graders but a constant stream of talented juniors from our zone can really flip the script in that sense. Outside of Buddy, the Swans really haven't had a significant recruiting coup in the last 20 years and yet they've found a way to compete in 16 of the last 20 finals series. How did they do it? I know they used to get a lot of credit for the 'Bloods Culture' and the way that they would develop drafted players but these days people don't really talk about that and it appears its their academy that continues to keep them competitive with players like Callum Mills, Isaac Heeney, Nick Blakey, Braeden Campbell, Erol Gulden etc all being outstanding academy prospects that they were able to secure. Now we finally appear to have our own impressive academy crop coming through over the next few years and I really hope this is the beginning of us following suit so we aren't so reliant on external recruiting in the future.


I know it's not simple but this is what a recruitment manager is paid to figure out. We can't just let a guy like Scotty Clayton come in and coast for years because he can hide behind a pretence like 'we need to spread the age gap'. When you think back on it, we really should have secured another top line midfielder in his prime to team up with Ablett or a top line key forward in his prime to show Dixon and Lynch the way during that 2013-14 period when we were climbing the ladder and were primed to qualify for the finals for the first time. Instead Clayton decided to draft more 18 year olds like Kolodjashnij, Leslie and Lemmens who always were going to take years before they significantly contributed and there's also no guarantee that they were ever going get there like we saw with KK.

We need recruiting staff who will actively make moves every year and try their best to convince the next Lachie Neale to join us so we can hopefully open as many finals windows as possible. I understand we're not going to land big name players every year but to have virtually nothing happen for 10 years is very lacklustre IMO. I'm not sure how many on this board follow the NBA but if you do then you would understand that the Miami Heat is the exact model we should be trying to replicate. Small market team that can offer a tropical lifestyle and is run by an unbelievable president/recruiting manager named Pat Riley. He found a way to make Miami more appealing than the some of the biggest markets in the world like New York/Los Angeles and that was proven in 2010 when he secured league MVP Lebron James' signature ahead of every other NBA team. There's no reason why we can't be the AFL's version of the Miami Heat.

How good was KK in his prime… to come out and do what he did as a 19yr old was almost unheard of back then.

Pity our clubs doctors destroyed his career

 

[GC2015]

Lynch Dixon Day
Ablett Swallow Bennel Prestia Caddy
May Thompson Bock

Pretty decent

And yet we only won 6 out of a possible 44 games in our first 2 seasons. Now I know you're going to say of course it was always going to take several years before the draftees started to significantly contribute but why was that not taken into consideration when recruiting guys like 27 year old Ablett and 28 year old Bock?

Key Defenders - We literally got 1 good season out of Bock before his body decided he was done. I know it was a freak injury but he never properly recovered/returned and that probably had a lot to do with his age. Powell also broke his leg in a similar way last year but I think we're all expecting him to play another 5-10 years from here so age it certainly a big factor. Also, May and Thompson were both drafted as forwards so we didn't even really draft any key defenders if you actually think about it. We just lucked out when May and Thompson found their feet in the backline but that was never a guaranteed proposition when we drafted them. When Bock broke his leg in 2012 we needed to bring in someone like a 24 year old James Frawley, not a 29 year old Matthew Warnock.

Forwards - It wasn't until 2014 that Lynch actually kicked on and you can say something about Dixon so once again, this was always going to take years before we had a fully functioning forward line. We really needed someone like a 24 year old Kurt Tippett to join us in 2012/13 to steady the ship and kick a consistent 30-40 goals a year while Lynch, Dixon and Day developed. I know we tried to get Kurt back then but did we do everything possible to get him?

Mids - I've already pointed out the age issue with Ablett so I won't go into that again. In retrospect we know Caddy was a massive flight risk but I guess you don't 100% know the extent of that at the start. However you want to look at it, we really only got 1 season out of Caddy due to his injury in the first season. We also knew Bennell potentially had massive issues off field but we were able to keep him on the straight and narrow for 3-4 seasons. Can't really say anything negative about Swallow or Prestia as they were exactly what you would have wanted from a draftee during that period.

Overall I think there's definitely several questions that could be asked of the recruitment team back then but I do think our team was good enough back then to play finals if we had more luck with injuries. I'm just not sure the finals window would have stayed open for very long with how cap tied we were by Ablett's salary and I'm certain the spine you listed above wouldn't have been able to beat Hawthorn's triple premiership spine during that period:

Roughead, Franklin, Gunston (Rioli too)
Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Sewell, Smith, Shiels
Lake, Gibson, Stratton (Burgoyne & Hill too)

As for Neale, I was just addressing your claim that Lions convinced him to join them when in fact he chose them first.

It's almost impossible to attract top player when at the bottom especially interstate. I have no doubt Cameron, Dew do their best. Chol first interview was telling. Dew was still calling him every day even after his commitment to make sure he does not change his mind. BTW, Chol could be our best recruitment so far. If we pay him around speculated 400K that's pretty unbelievable considering his output in first year.

As for the list under Clayton, one thing is to bring players in the other one is how the club develop them, performance/medical environment, injuries and so on. I am with Swallow - that list was as good as it is now. And Clayton was a list manager in that time - so he deserves some credit for it like it or not. If they were allowed to bring 3-5 more experienced players as they wanted and had perfect environment to develop kids - who knows what would happen. Did Clayton or Cameron make mistakes? For sure. All list managers do including Lions and other teams ones.

Sure but again, we had Brad Crouch knocking on our door just a few years ago so it's not completely unheard of to be approched when a team has cap room. It's just rare that the quality is as high as Neale when it happens.

I would certainly agree that Chol's signature has been a fruitful one for us and credit goes to the recruiting team for that one. I don't think it was a huge factor in his decision making but I would just add that Chol grew up in Queensland and the concept of returning 'home' probably made his decision to join us easier. Still a great signing though, especially for the reported $400k salary.

They were allowed to bring in more experienced players at the start. We were permitted one off contract player from each club in the AFL so that's a maximum of 16 experienced players but they chose to only bring in 8 experienced players from other clubs. Did that have to with Ablett's salary? It would have been a factor for sure.

How good was KK in his prime… to come out and do what he did as a 19yr old was almost unheard of back then.

Pity our clubs doctors destroyed his career

Very rare to see a 19 year old play like that at the top level. Who knows what KK would have become had he not run into concussion issues. You mention our club doctors and I remember someone saying that was a factor in O'Meara's decision to leave as well so you do wonder how many players we lost because of our doctors at the time...

 

[Jirik13]

They were allowed to bring in more experienced players at the start. We were permitted one off contract player from each club in the AFL so that's a maximum of 16 experienced players but they chose to only bring in 8 experienced players from other clubs. Did that have to with Ablett's salary? It would have been a factor for sure.

Not sure what Crouch has to do with Neale. Crouch is an average player at best and not many teams were interested in him. Manager tried to sell, increase his value.

On the contrary, Neale is genuine star and to have him select Lions was unbelievable. He also liked Fagan. Most team would be able to create cap for Neale - simply dumping players.

According to McKenna, AFL put aside specific amount of money for senior players to bring in from other clubs. Then prices (salaries went up), AFL refused to increase the money so the club could not bring in the number of players they originally wanted.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

Barry Rigby (father of Alex) has been our match day doctor from day one and remains so as far as I'm aware.
He's an ED/ICU physician

He wouldn't have been advising on management of O'Meara's long term injuries. Jaeger would have been seeing some unaffiliated orthopaedic surgeon.

 

[Supersuns]

Jesus who gives a **** about what we did and didn't do 8 years ago.

 

[CommittedSuns]

I just want milk that tastes like real milk… oh and some god damn footy since the cricket sucks

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

Jesus who gives a * about what we did and didn't do 8 years ago.

Thank God someone said it.

 

[GC2015]

Jesus who gives a * about what we did and didn't do 8 years ago.

 

[Choppers]

"And the only thing you get from looking back,
is a sore neck"

-Chopper's Dad.

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

 

[GC2015]

"And the only thing you get from looking back,
is a sore neck"

-Chopper's Dad.

I just can't agree with that. Check out this 2008 article from Mark Williams when a new Gold Coast team was first being talked about as a possibility. Sadly, we repeated a lot of the same mistakes the Bears made like not having proper training facilities, putting inexperienced admin in charge, questionable player leadership etc. History has a funny way of repeating itself...

Learn from the Bears’ mistakes
By Mark Williams

I suppose I’m in a bit of a unique position having been the first signed player of the Brisbane Bears and also very much involved in the infancy stages of Port Adelaide, where I still am, 12 years on.

There are a lot of things to consider when you decide to add a new team to an existing competition, and I’m a lot more confident now than I was 20 years ago that the AFL has covered all the necessary bases.

In 1987 the Brisbane Bears were set up to fail. The draft concessions the club received were totally unfair because no one was compelled to come to Queensland.

The existing clubs were given the opportunity to choose which players they would cast off, so naturally, most of the players weren’t of a recognised high standard, were injured or decided to jet off overseas.

South Australian players like Chris McDermott, David Brown and the Jarman brothers were drafted to Brisbane, but they didn’t have to come, so they didn’t.

The players who did make the move soon realised there were no facilities or training venues in place. I think we probably trained at four or five different bases in the first year and we didn’t have a home ground. There was so much debate over where we would be based that everyone bought houses in the wrong places and we were forced to relocate one or two years later.

It didn’t help either that the people put in place to run the club, both on and off the field, had little or no experience in AFL football or in the particular position they were given.

Peter Knights was a fantastic ambassador for the club and a great player, but I’m not even sure if he had coached before. Just like Mark Mickan, who was a wonderful player and person, but had never played a game of AFL prior to coming to Brisbane. Straight away there were two people on the match committee, who had had no experience at AFL level in the new roles they were given.

All these people had the greatest intentions and worked hard, but because the club was built on such an inexperienced foundation, it fell apart after only a few short years. New owners came in, took over and basically started the untried route again …only to fail…again.

The club also wasted an exorbitant mount of money. In the beginning, I think players and their partners spent up to three months in a hotel with all expenses paid and no limits on spending…the seafood platters were great at the Park Royal.

At times the owners were arriving at games in stretch limousines and were flying in food from Maxim’s restaurant on Toorak Road in Melbourne so they could eat it pre-game and half time. It was the 80s – a time of excesses and the Skases, so all in all it was a bit of a circus.

We had an older group of players at Brisbane, who were consistent without being stars. We won six, seven and then eight games in the first three years, but it was when we traded in some star players that animosity was created among the group.

At the time, it was said that some of these players couldn’t be dropped because it had been written into their contracts that they would play every week. You just can’t build a solid culture around such flawed values.

My advice to the new licensees would be to put people in place who have actually done the job, who have an intimate knowledge of interstate teams and travel and have a good track record.

I think it made sense when Port Adelaide entered the AFL in 1997 that we traded away some of our early draft picks for experienced players. Port Adelaide became competitive very quickly, unlike Brisbane, who didn’t make the finals for nine years.

With the introduction of many young players into these new club lists, I think a ‘footy school’ environment will work best. The search for improvement and perfection is the key. The working conditions must be well resourced with money and cutting edge equipment, combined with innovative, hard working and resilient people surrounding and moulding these future stars. A solid leadership program is also essential.

The people chosen to lead the Gold Coast team off the field also need to be able to handle poor on-field results, as well as poor crowds and poor financials. The ability to deal with bad press is also an essential pre-requisite for longevity and success at a football club.

One thing I’m certain of is that having five coaches in six years at Collingwood and three coaches in three years at the Bears, along with countless owners, CEOS, presidents and managers cannot work and will never work, so choose carefully!

In the Coaches Association meeting last week, the issue of draft concessions the 17th and 18th teams would need in today’s competition was raised. We all agreed that it was important the AFL looked at the impact having limited early picks in the next few years would have on the individual clubs.

Every club’s list is at a different stage, age level of experience and needs. For instance, right now Melbourne would be very, very disadvantaged if they couldn’t get some of the very best young players in the coming years.

Every team will have to face the fact that, probably, one very good, uncontracted player will have to go to the Gold Coast or to western Sydney.

Every team will be affected, but at the same time, you’ll get another good, young player in return and in a few years time you’ll be building up again, just like Essendon did when Gavin Wanganeen came back to Port Adelaide.

The 17th and 18th teams will change everything, just like the national competition did. I suppose the oldies will always say the earlier years were better, and maybe I’m part of that too now, but I think the game is going quickly in the right direction.

The AFL has consulted greatly with the clubs and also with people in the know before deciding upon this expansion of the league. The idea of another team certainly excites the 16 football clubs and, in time, I’m sure it will excite the public too.