Swans' academy.

[RTTF]

I think the question would be why rather than how.

1m/5 year contract. 400k paid this year.

Eddie sock puppet making something out of nothing.......

 

[Justice]

Which is why Albury and Broken Hill are included?

Albury, ALL the Riverina and Broken Hill are in the GWS Academy zone. Nothing to do with the Swans Academy.

 

[Syd]

Albury and Riverena both already well represented in terms of junior AFL facilities and participation.

Bloody AFL always giving GWS another leg up.
It aint right I tells ya!

 

[The_Reaper]

Albury, ALL the Riverina and Broken Hill are in the GWS Academy zone. Nothing to do with the Swans Academy.

And?

The point is that the Riverina and Broken Hill show exactly how ridiculous this 'growing the game in non heartlands is'.

 

[Pharaoh]

Don't worry Swans and GWS fans. No further need to cover the expense of the NSW academies. Hawthorn has kindly volunteered to take these over and pick up the cheque. You can go back to paying Buddy Franklin with your money now.

 

[Justice]

And?

The point is that the Riverina and Broken Hill show exactly how ridiculous this 'growing the game in non heartlands is'.

You questioned why Albury and Broken Hill were included in response to a post by Replicant that stated:

"The Academy is specifically there to get kids for whom AFL is not their first sport, and commonly isn't second, third or fourth sport followed, if they even follow it at all. A lot of kids going to the academy try outs last week have have never even seen a sherrin, never handballed..."​

I'm just pointing out that the areas mentioned by you are not included in the Sydney Academy zone and Replicant's point is valid. The questioning of the inclusion Albury etc should be directed to this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gws-gold-coast-brisbane-academy.1067261/page-9#post-33844051

However, just for your information, the last player drafted onto a primary AFL list from Broken Hill was Taylor Walker in 2007 (under a NSW Scholarship). From Albury - Anthony Miles in 2011 (as a GWS Zone selection and he is now at Richmond). Hardly recruiting hotspots!

Just facts, no histrionics.

Cheers
Justice

 

[Indie_]

Do people not understand that fans of Sydney, Brisbane, GWS and GC would be happy for the AFL to fund the academies? The kids still get a pathway to the AFL, the game continues to develop in NSW/QLD and the prospects are available to everyone to pick whenever they want. However, the AFL have shown no inclination to take on such a burden and want the clubs to run it themselves. In return for this investment they give the clubs priority access, which no one had an issue with last year with Jono Freeman or two years ago with Brandon Jack. All of a sudden the first top ten talent from NSW since 2002 (hence the reason for the academies) comes along and everyone is up in arms.

If the AFL want to make it untenable to run these academies by changing the bidding process forcing clubs to give up kings ransoms for academy players then it will disincentivise the clubs to do it. As a result the development of the game in NSW/QLD suffers significantly, and the talent pool in total does as well. GWS have four players coming through their academy this year and won't be able to pick up all of them, and so we are presented with clear of evidence of the academy system being beneficial to the overall talent pool and the other clubs around the league.

The way I see it there are three outcomes from here on out,

1) The AFL takes over the entire academy system.

2) The AFL maintains the status quo

3) The academies become extinct.

 

[Faysals Swans]

So if every club wants access to the academy why don't you all start funding it too? Swans are funding it and growing the game therefore it's OUR academy. When other clubs start putting money in, feel free too join in. Till then, piss off.

 

[Cleric]

So if every club wants access to the academy why don't you all start funding it too? Swans are funding it and growing the game therefore it's OUR academy. When other clubs start putting money in, feel free too join in. Till then, piss off.

Ummm..all clubs pay hundreds of thousands of dollars each per year for the talent pathways fund, none of which goes back into SA or WA u16-u18 programs. The whole thing needs to redone.
If the Crows wanted to set an academy for aboriginal kids from SA would everyone be happy for us to get first access to them? If so ill send an email to Triggy and see if he could set it up before he heads to Melbourne.

 

[Crankyhawk]

starting base?

Oook so
1- Everyone should be travelling the same
2- Every club should have equal access to prime time tv
3- Every club should have equal access to big ticket games (Anzac Day etc)
4- Every state should get equal juniors or close to. If not then academies are needed to boost numbers
5- After 9th position on the ladder its a lotto. Kills the vic love affair with tanking. No pride...
6- As vic clubs dont travel they pay the "interstate" clubs for the artificial boost in crowds playing so many home teams (home and away) at their own city

probably can think of more but will leave it for now.

THATS TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE STARTS FAIR AND EVEN.

How do you propose that given the way the competition is structured? No Victorian club will play 14 away games and only 8 home games so that the interstate clubs play 14 games at home. (rough maths).

 

[Crankyhawk]

The dynamic is simple.

COLA was an equity measure bought in to counter balance the cost of living in Sydney and the 'go home' factor. The Academies solves that issue by creating a local pool of talent, just as exists everywhere else. All we need is for the AFL to fund the Academies and the problem is solved - we grow the game nationally and get an expanded pool of talent (with equal access through draft).

Instead, Eddie has run a hysterical campaign calling Sydney cheats on national TV and destroying the reputation of AFL in NSW. I am sorry - I understand the desire for equality - I don't understand the destructive power given to the Collingwood president by the Victorian clubs.

Well, I guess he is the COLLINGWOOD president after all, so it makes sense for him to try to destroy any advantage your club gets.

 

[master bate]

If the AFL want to make it untenable to run these academies by changing the bidding process forcing clubs to give up kings ransoms for academy players then it will disincentivise the clubs to do it. As a result the development of the game in NSW/QLD suffers significantly, and the talent pool in total does as well. GWS have four players coming through their academy this year and won't be able to pick up all of them, and so we are presented with clear of evidence of the academy system being beneficial to the overall talent pool and the other clubs around the league.

The way I see it there are three outcomes from here on out,

1) The AFL takes over the entire academy system.
2) The AFL maintains the status quo
3) The academies become extinct.

What's wrong with paying fair price? You already pay fair price for all the second, third, fourth rounders and rookies? A fair price bidding system would only really impact you in the first round. Most other times any change to a bidding system will make negligible difference. No one will make exorbitant bids that will cost a kings ransom for 2nd or 3rd rounders, it doesn't make sense. In fact as long as your first round pick matches up roughly with a players worth it wont change anything. If Heeney was worth pick 15 a new bidding system would mean nothing if you had pick 18. If Heeney was worth pick 5 and you had pick 5 then any change in bidding system wouldn't change anything.

A simple change to the bidding system will keep all the other incentives of the academies.

And the benefits should be in getting multiple NSW/QLD players in to the system, more fans in those states, more draftable players, more home grown players at those clubs, better talent in the local leagues.

Everything will stay the same besides getting an elite junior for massively under value. Isn't that fair enough when that was never the goal of the academies?

What if Gold Coast or GWS get 3 elite kids for 3 years in a row when they are in their prime and you guys are rebuilding? Won't you claim that as unfair?

 

[Syd]

How do you propose that given the way the competition is structured? No Victorian club will play 14 away games and only 8 home games so that the interstate clubs play 14 games at home. (rough maths).

Not even to create true equality in the comp?

Isn't that what all these VFL sides are crying out for?

Maybe the extra 3 games in each "interstate" location will help grow the code

 

[Yoda_]

The other clubs AFL practically fund these academies anyways? If the AFL are so adamant it is to grow the game in these second tier states then why not allow extra spots on AFL lists for kids?

Put all Academy kids under one state umbrella run by the AFL and then into a separate draft allowing ALL clubs 4 spots for additional picks (academy kids, Category B, international) with the luxury of unspecified contract lengths.

Doubt it would ever work but the sooner the AFL scrap the romanticism of the Father/Son rule, and then the Academies, the closer Eddie the AFL get to a more equalised competition.

 

[Colonial]

How do you propose that given the way the competition is structured? No Victorian club will play 14 away games and only 8 home games so that the interstate clubs play 14 games at home. (rough maths).

Very true and agree. BUT I was just trying to show that it will never be a fair and equal comp. Which is why each clubs have pros and cons.
example. Northern clubs dont have the entire state wanting to grow up playing the game, and deals with go home factor. But get academies to help that out.

 

[momentbymoment]

Well, I guess he is the COLLINGWOOD president after all, so it makes sense for him to try to destroy any advantage your club gets.

That's true.
The plan is - grow the Swans into a super club, form alliances with other clubs then impose a rule whereby club presidents cannot run Fox Footy.

Then we can start enjoying the greatest game in the world without all the negativity.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Staggers me how people are concerned about Sydney and GWS gaining the tiniest advantage they're wanting to kill off ways to grow the game substantially.

Stop being so short sighted and narrow minded FFS. The game growing benefits everyone.

 

[Indie_]

What's wrong with paying fair price? You already pay fair price for all the second, third, fourth rounders and rookies? A fair price bidding system would only really impact you in the first round. Most other times any change to a bidding system will make negligible difference. No one will make exorbitant bids that will cost a kings ransom for 2nd or 3rd rounders, it doesn't make sense. In fact as long as your first round pick matches up roughly with a players worth it wont change anything. If Heeney was worth pick 15 a new bidding system would mean nothing if you had pick 18. If Heeney was worth pick 5 and you had pick 5 then any change in bidding system wouldn't change anything.

Do you not think clubs will instantly bid overs for all players because they know the northern clubs have put millions of dollars in these academies and therefore are going to less likely to let play elsewhere. It's not going to impact our first rounders because #5 is worth well more than our first two picks this year, but what happens when clubs decide to bid their second round picks on Abe Davis (a third/fourth round prospect)? Do we have then have to commit our first four picks to two players? Surely you realise that a new bidding system is going to an imperfect science that will almost certainly force all clubs into paying over for any academy player unless they are a top five talent?

No one thinks that the northern clubs shouldn't pay a fair price, but they aren't going to be doing that in the majority of cases under what seems to be the proposed bidding system. Right now they pay a fair price for the majority of players, with a few a few exceptions. It'll reverse under a bidding system.

 

[loki04]

You questioned why Albury and Broken Hill were included in response to a post by Replicant that stated:

"The Academy is specifically there to get kids for whom AFL is not their first sport, and commonly isn't second, third or fourth sport followed, if they even follow it at all. A lot of kids going to the academy try outs last week have have never even seen a sherrin, never handballed..."​

I'm just pointing out that the areas mentioned by you are not included in the Sydney Academy zone and Replicant's point is valid. The questioning of the inclusion Albury etc should be directed to this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gws-gold-coast-brisbane-academy.1067261/page-9#post-33844051

However, just for your information, the last player drafted onto a primary AFL list from Broken Hill was Taylor Walker in 2007 (under a NSW Scholarship). From Albury - Anthony Miles in 2011 (as a GWS Zone selection and he is now at Richmond). Hardly recruiting hotspots!

Just facts, no histrionics.

Cheers
Justice

By games played Broken hill AFL/VFL players, bolded are current AFL listed players.

209 games - Dean Solomon (Essendon/Fremantle) - 2000 Premiership player
143 games - Brent Staker (West Coast/Brisbane)
92 games - Bob Troughton (Geelong) - 1931 Premiership player
69 games - Taylor Walker (Adelaide)
55 games - George Lakes (Melbourne)
43 games - Brett Cook (Fitzroy/St Kilda)
40 games - Ron O'Dwyer (Carlton/C'wood)
35 games - Andy Bennett (Hawthorn/St Kilda)
28 games - Ron Serich (Richmond)
13 games - Steve Hywood (Richmond)
8 games - Mitch Clisby (Melbourne)
5 games - Chris Lynch (Geelong)
4 games - Stuart Bown (Adelaide)
3 games - Chris Duthy (Fitzroy)
1 game - Robert Caprioli (Sydney)

There have also been numerous rookie listed players from the hill that didn't make it for what ever reason.

So while not a HOT spot it certainly isn't a non AFL place, I think it is however great that it is in the zone as a lot of talented kids miss out from there who imo could of played at the highest level.

 

[clogged]

fair point. the AFL ****** up in their role as competition administrator by using the league as a pawn for their role as governing body. There's an argument that the AFL being both has been a big reason for the growth in the game. But the perception is that the league is less a sporting competition and more a strategic tool to boost expansion. With 5 premierships going north of the murray in 11 seasons, it's pretty hard to argue against it.

Which helps the executives of AFL justify their million dollar bonuses.

It's a rorted competition done solely for the benefit of those at the top of it. Andrew Demetriou did very well out of it.

 

[clogged]

Staggers me how people are concerned about Sydney and GWS gaining the tiniest advantage they're wanting to kill off ways to grow the game substantially.

Stop being so short sighted and narrow minded FFS. The game growing benefits everyone.

Don't parrot rubbish.

Sydney have been in NSW for 30 years and their effect on growing the game is marginal. Carlton had Mark McLure and Alex Jesaulenko playing for them before the wreckage of South Melbourne was salvaged by shunting them off to NSW.

Meanwhile the best ever player from Queensland debuted before the Brisbane Bears were even thought of.

Has the game really come much further in terms of yielding talent from NSW and QLD given how many millions of dollars and favourable concessions have been given to the clubs up there?

How much more is needed?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Don't parrot rubbish.

Sydney have been in NSW for 30 years and their effect on growing the game is marginal. Carlton had Mark McLure and Alex Jesaulenko playing for them before the wreckage of South Melbourne was salvaged by shunting them off to NSW.

Meanwhile the best ever player from Queensland debuted before the Brisbane Bears were even thought of.

Has the game really come much further in terms of yielding talent from NSW and QLD given how many millions of dollars and favourable concessions have been given to the clubs up there?

How much more is needed?

So you don't see any possible way academies will help in growing the game? You think they're pointless?

Growing the game doesn't only mean players making it to AFL Level. I trust you acknowledge that.

 

[MarkP]

So you don't see any possible way academies will help in growing the game? You think they're pointless?

Growing the game doesn't only mean players making it to AFL Level. I trust you acknowledge that.

Thanks for that.

The fact that this "argument" has dissolved into ensuring Heeney is seen as the greatest AFL player of all time and the academy was set up by the Swans in a master-stroke to snare this number 1 draft pick (LAWL) on the nudge nudge wink wink sly is quite moronic.

 

[clogged]

So you don't see any possible way academies will help in growing the game? You think they're pointless?

Growing the game doesn't only mean players making it to AFL Level. I trust you acknowledge that.

I think they will achieve little outside of boosting the playing ranks of the clubs involved. There will be minimal 'trickle down' effect from the academies.

Having lived in Sydney for a number of years, I'm well aware of the challenges Australian football faces in becoming popular in this city and more broadly the state. The first is that by the majority it is seen as a sloppy, skilless game played by rake thin athletes. The most popular sports in NSW (the two rugby codes and soccer) emphasise retention and handling of the ball above all else - the fact that fumbling is not against the rules in footy is a massive negative in Sydney. Similarly, compared to the raw brutality in both rugby codes, modern AFL looks meek. Speak to a diehard league, union or soccer fan in Sydney on why they don't like AFL and they will tell you one of two things - it's physically weak or it's skilless.

Furthermore, as mcgarnacle identified, the kinds of people who play the game at junior levels are not the same kind of broader salt of the earth types you'd find playing in the pro-footy states. They are by and large private school educated kids who are not good enough for the First XV. Footy happily fills a niche for those too soft for rugby union but see league as too bogan and soccer as too ethnic (although this is changing).

If you think the AFL can make any in roads into this cultural mindset, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Lach72]

So if every club wants access to the academy why don't you all start funding it too? Swans are funding it and growing the game therefore it's OUR academy. When other clubs start putting money in, feel free too join in. Till then, piss off.

We help fund WA footy...where you get equal access to players and we get no priority