Autopsy Swans defeat Dogs (78 v 76)

[grassman75]

Delusional, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2016 shits all over our current crop

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Yet we regularly play finals, have made two GFs - it’s frustrating but we are still in the hunt

 

[grassman75]

And the suns lost and the cats lost. Those loses apart from Port v1 have happened in the last 7 wrens. We were two games ahead of 8 in Round 10 and now I’d Adelaide beat GWS we are out of the 8 completely. Embarrassing

Can only control our own destiny, not what other teams do. Look at last night. Went to bed with Bris up 97 to 60 odd and got up to see they lost. Don’t get me wrong, I’m frustrated with losing games like we have, but it’s not all doom and gloom

 

[lachy]

Yet we regularly play finals, have made two GFs - it’s frustrating but we are still in the hunt

3 of those 4 teams not only made finals they finished top 4

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[grassman75]

3 of those 4 teams not only made finals they finished top 4

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And what did we get out of those teams? Top 4 is a myth

Does that make Rocket a shit coach, he made top 4 a few times but couldn’t win…sack Rocket

 

[lachy]

And what did we get out of those teams? Top 4 is a myth

Lol given we are the only team this century to win a flag from outside the top 4 would think that makes it a significant myth if you want to actually challenge for flags and not just make finals

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[yebach]

Agree on some of the players you say but what I am really envious about the Pies and what I want from them is their system of play, the way they move the ball and how that works with the list they have .

I would take the latter before any player.
Any of the players noted would struggle with a gorilla on their back the way we operate.

That's the whole point of my post.

Our list is good enough to be performing better.

Our system is one of the worst in the league.

 

[Mojorisin]

Fox reported that McNeil has a concussion and thus will miss next week.

Considering it happened in the first quarter. I'd hope we didn't leave him out there all game with a concussion. He and treloar were listed as injured on the afl app in the at the end of the first quarter but both resumed the second.

 

[Dog 36]

Considering it happened in the first quarter. I'd hope we didn't leave him out there all game with a concussion. He and treloar were listed as injured on the afl app in the at the end of the first quarter but both resumed the second.

If it was the incident with Rampe then

4 umpires and they missed it?

Behind the play , guy has concussion and 2 weeks ? AFL must appeal this if they are serious about protecting the head.

Again the key here is head contact, concussion and BEHIND THE PLAY

 

[Dogs Rule]

Nah, that 90’s group was a who’s who of battlers.

Sure, we had handful of guns, but there were a heap of average players on those lists.

For that short period, Wallace was simply outsmarting a lot of the old fossils coaching at other clubs. Add to that Chris Grant and 1-2 others peaking.

The late 2000’s list had a lot of holes. Maybe more brilliance than the current lot, but there was zero key fwds before Hall and Lake held that backline together for the most part.

Our current list is a lot more balanced than both of those eras.

That right there is the most telling thing of all.

We're wasting this era, we're wasting Bont, we're wasting Libba, we're wasting our talent and before we know it, it'll be gone.

Since 2016 we've massively underperformed, let's face it. Again, we played out of our skins for three weeks in the 2021 finals, but that's it.

There are coaches that would kill for our list, our talent, but all we get week after week is selection head scratchers, bizarre structures, a one paced game plan, a headless chook approach when the our opponent has a run on and a lack of accountability and on field. Do our players really care enough? Are they desperate enough to do what they have to do to win? Don't know.

Make no mistake, we will rue the last few years as p****** golden opportunities down the drain and that's a hell of a shame.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Bont
Naugton
Treloar
English
Richards
McCrae
Bailey Smith (Bevo is using him appalling)
Libba
Liam Jones (When healthy)
JUH
Weightman
Caleb Daniel and Bailey Dale (To an extent)

Look at the talent here and tell me we overrate our roster. You’re never going to have a roster with 22 AA players. It’s the coaches job to get the most out of it. I’m not saying we have the best roster but * we got a pretty good one. Definitely a roster that should be fighting for Top 4 at minimum.

Take Bont out and we have a solid list with potential. My opinion is that we overate our list. Apart from Red and Jones our backline is shithouse. No wings to speak of. Great mids albeit a bit slow. Decent forward line with more potential than runs on the board.
Don’t get me wrong, I love our players as much as Bevo but we’re lacking in a lot of positions.

 

[Dog 36]

Take Bont out and we have a solid list with potential. My opinion is that we overate our list. Apart from Red and Jones our backline is shithouse. No wings to speak of. Great mids albeit a bit slow. Decent forward line with more potential than runs on the board.
Don’t get me wrong, I love our players as much as Bevo but we’re lacking in a lot of positions.

How do you see our list compared to (sample)


Collingwood
Port
St Kilda

I say lack of system is hurting the list more than the list itself

Could not believe Thursday night with game on the line with minutes remaining Dale had to manufacture something and got caught out because there was no plan for kick out.

Absolutely disgraceful that was appalling.

That spoke volumes to me accompanied with our lack of effort and plan on the goal line both when we are attacking and defending.


Swans kicking for goal has been suspect over last month so you would think you would have a plan to move the ball from a kick in

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

How do you see our list compared to (sample)


Collingwood
Port
St Kilda

I say lack of system is hurting the list more than the list itself

Could not believe Thursday night with game on the line with minutes remaining Dale had to manufacture something and got caught out because there was no plan for kick out.

Absolutely disgraceful that was appalling.

That spoke volumes to me accompanied with our lack of effort and plan on the goal line both when we are attacking and defending.


Swans kicking for goal has been suspect over last month so you would think you would have a plan to move the ball from a kick in

Yep, we have no idea what to do at the finish of close games. Watch the end of the Suns game - where we had the momentum as well.

Compare Beveridge to Macrae and both the Scott bros here - our preparation is miles behind.

 

[Dog 36]

Yep, we have no idea what to do at the finish of close games. Watch the end of the Suns game - where we had the momentum as well.

Compare Beveridge to Macrae and both the Scott bros here - our preparation is miles behind.

And that no idea at finish of close games gives me no confidence we have an idea going into games

When the players saw what happened with Dale they knew we are going by hope rather than a plan

Sad but reality

 

[grassman75]

Lol given we are the only team this century to win a flag from outside the top 4 would think that makes it a significant myth if you want to actually challenge for flags and not just make finals

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I’m guessing sarcasm is lost on you

 

[_Mike_]

The list isn’t the issue, it’s the coaching

If it was the incident with Rampe then

4 umpires and they missed it?

Behind the play , guy has concussion and 2 weeks ? AFL must appeal this if they are serious about protecting the head.

Again the key here is head contact, concussion and BEHIND THE PLAY

I think it's more to do with the injury report which the club must lodge all concussion events. Then the report would describe when it happened and the AFL would need to review via the MRP

 

[geoffjennings79]

Considering it happened in the first quarter. I'd hope we didn't leave him out there all game with a concussion. He and treloar were listed as injured on the afl app in the at the end of the first quarter but both resumed the second.

That might explain why he looked like he was running in waist deep water late in the game?
He's not the quickest bloke we've got, but late in the game I reckon a 90yo on a walking frame would have passed him.
I know other players looked gassed too though, not sure what distance he covered, so maybe a combination of things.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Collingwood
Port
St Kilda

I say lack of system is hurting the list more than the list itself

Could not believe Thursday night with game on the line with minutes remaining Dale had to manufacture something and got caught out because there was no plan for kick out.

Absolutely disgraceful that was appalling.

That spoke volumes to me accompanied with our lack of effort and plan on the goal line both when we are attacking and defending.


Swans kicking for goal has been suspect over last month so you would think you would have a plan to move the ball from a kick in

I agree, our list, or certain parts of our list, are better on paper than those teams. We’ve got some big names. Maybe it’s our lesser types that are dragging us down, maybe it’s the game plan, maybe it’s an inability to carry out the game plan, maybe it’s not having a backline, maybe it’s the coach… plenty of opinions.
A couple of facts about the Swans game though… for the first 3 quarters Sydney had 4 extra players on the ground ie. the umpires… and in the last quarter in our forward line Red made 2 howlers and Bont one that would have won the game. Those factors can’t be on the coach.

 

[Dog 36]

I agree, our list, or certain parts of our list, are better on paper than those teams. We’ve got some big names. Maybe it’s our lesser types that are dragging us down, maybe it’s the game plan, maybe it’s an inability to carry out the game plan, maybe it’s not having a backline, maybe it’s the coach… plenty of opinions.
A couple of facts about the Swans game though… for the first 3 quarters Sydney had 4 extra players on the ground ie. the umpires… and in the last quarter in our forward line Red made 2 howlers and Bont one that would have won the game. Those factors can’t be on the coach.

Agree but I don’t look at the Swans game is isolation I look at the seasons as a whole including pre season

There are issues that should have been addressed but for some reason that haven’t. Ball movement , consecutive goals conceded etc etc

It is painful to see how hard we seem to make things and there are many contributing factors to this.

Look at Dale kick out and I say that is a lack of a plan rather than a player stuffing it up.

 

[W W Biscuit]

I think that you can have been following the Dogs through the dark years of the seventies and early eighties (as I have) and still be frustrated that we have underperformed in the last few years. I’m eternally grateful for the 2016 premiership, but I’m certainly not thankful for most of what has come after that. It has not been good enough relative to the resources we’ve had to work with. Stumbling and bumbling our way into finals, bottling it at the most key moments and persisting with a game style that lacks system and relies heavily on our opponents having an off day…it has been a significant let down. I cannot simply be grateful for a good era relative to the dark old days. It’s precisely because I put up with those god-awful years that our recent underachievement hurts so much. We should have been genuinely contending for the flag in every one of those seasons post 2016. We have had a top four list for most of that time. We haven’t capitalised on it at all.

By the way…did anyone see Jake Melksham

18

Jake Melksham

Age

33

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

2star

G

0.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

interviewed after last night’s game, when he mentioned how seriously Melbourne take goal kicking practice at training, particularly under simulated match pressure? Contrast that to what we know about the Dogs’ approach…which is…which is what, exactly? That it’s all a bit of a waste of time?

 

[Mojorisin]

I think that you can have been following the Dogs through the dark years of the seventies and early eighties (as I have) and still be frustrated that we have underperformed in the last few years. I’m eternally grateful for the 2016 premiership, but I’m certainly not thankful for most of what has come after that. It has not been good enough relative to the resources we’ve had to work with. Stumbling and bumbling our way into finals, bottling it at the most key moments and persisting with a game style that lacks system and relies heavily on our opponents having an off day…it has been a significant let down. I’m cannot simply be grateful for a good era relative to the dark old days. It’s precisely because I put up with those god-awful years that our recent underachievement hurts so much. We should have been genuinely contending for the flag in every one of those seasons post 2016. We have had a top four list for most of that time. We haven’t capitalised on it at al

By the way…did anyone see Jake Melksham interviewed after last night’s game, when he mentioned how seriously Melbourne take goal kicking practice at training, particularly under simulated match pressure? Contrast that to what we know about the Dogs’ approach…which is…which is what, exactly? That it’s all a bit of a waste of time?

The goals will take care of themselves.

 

[Libbaaaa]

And the suns lost and the cats lost. Those loses apart from Port v1 have happened in the last 7 wrens. We were two games ahead of 8 in Round 10 and now I’d Adelaide beat GWS we are out of the 8 completely. Embarrassing

Gold Coast were far superior to us in the second and third quarters and we broke even in the first and last. Geelong smashed us in the last. Port were easily the better side after the first quarter at Marvel as well. The final margins are completely deceiving in those games.

 

[ossie_21]

Considering it happened in the first quarter. I'd hope we didn't leave him out there all game with a concussion. He and treloar were listed as injured on the afl app in the at the end of the first quarter but both resumed the second.

Would think it has to be delayed concussion. There’s no rule about the effects coming 5 minutes or 5 hours later. I do remember seeing him go to the bench and he looked sore, the boundary rider (Lynch maybe?) pointed it out he came off hurt and said he’d try to find out what happened, but then there was nothing more said & he came back on.

The effects may have only really been felt after all the adrenaline wore off after cooling down

 

[The Inbetweener]

I agree, our list, or certain parts of our list, are better on paper than those teams. We’ve got some big names. Maybe it’s our lesser types that are dragging us down, maybe it’s the game plan, maybe it’s an inability to carry out the game plan, maybe it’s not having a backline, maybe it’s the coach… plenty of opinions.
A couple of facts about the Swans game though… for the first 3 quarters Sydney had 4 extra players on the ground ie. the umpires… and in the last quarter in our forward line Red made 2 howlers and Bont one that would have won the game. Those factors can’t be on the coach.

It’s not just about the Swans game though in isolation. We’ve seen that game play out over a dozen times over the last 2 years. Start very well, dominate clearances, concede a massive run on of goals and goals out the back like the papley match winner. If it was a one off no one would care. But it’s a constant formula the team hasn’t been able to address and ultimately that’s on the coach.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Would think it has to be delayed concussion. There’s no rule about the effects coming 5 minutes or 5 hours later. I do remember seeing him go to the bench and he looked sore, the boundary rider (Lynch maybe?) pointed it out he came off hurt and said he’d try to find out what happened, but then there was nothing more said & he came back on.

The effects may have only really been felt after all the adrenaline wore off after cooling down

Concussion effects can be delayed enough, to only present themselves even the next day. There is no real on the spot test for delayed ones unfortunately. I reckon most contact sport players have had a few micro concussions and played on, passing their tests etc, across their career. And gone through the week like normal and still put on the boots for the next weekend like nothing happened. Repeat.

 

[wayniac]

Concussion effects can be delayed enough, to only present themselves even the next day. There is no real on the spot test for delayed ones unfortunately. I reckon most contact sport players have had a few micro concussions and played on, passing their tests etc, across their career. And gone through the week like normal and still put on the boots for the next weekend like nothing happened. Repeat.

I had a bad concussion once playing rugby. I wasn't knocked but went onto auto-pilot. My skipper noticed I was wandering aimlessly at set pieces and told me to go off. AFL being a much more 360 degree game, it's difficult to diagnose if a player gets a knock and steps up. Would need some close monitoring of a players movements to pick up the problem.

Hope McNeil is OK, I like the kid and I wish people would give him more credit.