Opinion Swap Carlisle & Hurley

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rines said:
I think some have under rated what Hurley gave us forward... a damn bit more than Carlisle has given thus far...

we are 2-3 and something is on the nose.. our coach is publicly flaying players and their preparation.. we have Dempsey getting banned from the main group.. we have a potential AA player facing VFL..

But okey dokey.. we'll just pretend it isn't happening...

I seem to remember the same amount of vitriol directed at me when I suggested Knights wasn't up to it after 5 games.. was told I was crazy and give him time.. and it got so much better didn't it?! Not.

You don't need a heap of time to see trends.

I'm not suggesting we won't make finals, I'm not suggesting we won't play good footy this year... in fact I EXPECT us to make finals and play some very good footy.. we SHOULD be a very good footy side.. just like we were last year.

All I'm suggesting is that we need to get back to a happy place.. not this shit.
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What are we pretending isn't happening?
 
for the record.. I suggested I didn't like our forward set up earlier too...

We have been struggling to kick scores since the pre-season..
 

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Dempsey was most likely given a spell for being lazy. That's not the coach's fault, and secondly and more importantly, it's not the first time he's had attitude problems.

As scezza said, it's one bad loss. Which we've had every single year, without fail, for a very long time.
 
rines said:
Carlisle isn't working forward.
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He's played 2.5 games there since 2010. Give him time, he was drafted as a forward, it's not like we're asking him to play in the ruck on the wing.
 
hurlygurdy said:
Disappointed to see you so reactionary rines.
There are entirely reasonable explanations for the past two weeks but you would rather throw the team structure out the window?
The major element to Hurleys game playing forward, is how he leads hard up the ground finding space only for the ball to bounce off his cast iron hands.
I never ever want to go back to that.
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Cause I don't think it is just the last two weeks.. I haven't like this forward structure since pre-season.. I think it is weak and can be stifled far too easily.

To be honest... you have to be a tiny bit reactionary in this game.. if we lose Friday and go 2-4.. then you are suddenly well and truly staring at a deep hole.

I get the excuses.. I'm not saying that we need to give up on the season.. far from it.. what I am merely suggesting is that in our games this year we have scored: 65, 89,65,99,86,138,60 and 65 points.

So ONE game over 100 points out of 8 attempts.. I don't care what our defence does or what people want to think.. it simply isn't good enough and won't win us enough games. The only game we looked damaging up forward was Carlton.. and I hardly think you hang your hat on that.

In fact we have scored 65 or under in 50% of our matches this year (and Pre-season were full length games).. that is simply NOT going to win enough footy games.

I feel like I am the only one seeing the clear writing here...
 
Didn't this discussion begin with playing Hurley back because he was having issues forward? Putting Hurley forward again won't fix the reasons why he was moved in the first place. Carslisle might be just out of touch or finding his feet, so too with Hurley.

If our mids were firing well then there might be less talk about this.
 
rines said:
Cause I don't think it is just the last two weeks.. I haven't like this forward structure since pre-season.. I think it is weak and can be stifled far too easily.

To be honest... you have to be a tiny bit reactionary in this game.. if we lose Friday and go 2-4.. then you are suddenly well and truly staring at a deep hole.

I get the excuses.. I'm not saying that we need to give up on the season.. far from it.. what I am merely suggesting is that in our games this year we have scored: 65, 89,65,99,86,138,60 and 65 points.

So ONE game over 100 points out of 8 attempts.. I don't care what our defence does or what people want to think.. it simply isn't good enough and won't win us enough games. The only game we looked damaging up forward was Carlton.. and I hardly think you hang your hat on that.

In fact we have scored 65 or under in 50% of our matches this year (and Pre-season were full length games).. that is simply NOT going to win enough footy games.

I feel like I am the only one seeing the clear writing here...
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We are playing our experimental forwards as experimental rucks while sick with the flu! Wtf did you think was going to happen?
There is no writing on any wall.
 
When the game was on the line last year, Carlisle almost shut down cloke completely. Regardless of whats been said througout the week, surely the Anzac day last year is reviewed and common sense prevails.....unfortunately i cant see this happening!! Theres a bigger difference in Carlisle v Hurley playing back thean there is carlisle v hurley fwd for mine!
 

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Ben the Gooner said:
No! Putting Hurley back into the forward line opens you up to the risk of Jack Wattsing him.

As soon as TBC and Ambrose are fit, play them all back and make do up forward with Daniher, Ambrose and Bellchambers. Carlisle can suck it up and move into the forwardline again to cover injuries.
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There is no way a forward line with T-Bell/JD and Ambrose as the talls will work. No way at all.
 
Doss said:
I've seen some fairly odd things being suggested in the last twenty-four hours.

Players don't play for Bomber like they do Hird? Not to restart that whole debate, but what proof of that is there? Wildly jumping the gun after one bad loss. We had bad losses under Hird too, had he lost the players in those weeks? No, we'd just had a bad game.

A disconnect between Bomber and the players? What is that based on, exactly? One reasonably firm but fair public rollicking for a talented player who is under performing? Seems to be a fairly large disconnect between that and the likelihood of a large scale rift.

I'd suggest people need to just take a deep breath and stop jumping the shark.

Now, as for the actual topic, I've come around to wanting both Carlisle and Hurley back ideally, with Hooker also being back.
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And who will be the talls in the forward line ?
 
Ben the Gooner said:
This week would be an ideal one to play all four back. Fletcher to Elliott, and the other three to Cloke, White and Witts.

Obviously predicated on Ambrose and Bellchambers being fit, but it's very doable.

Then just play all four back against Footscray and Brisbane regardless of personnel and keep them below 100 points combined.
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Do you realise that Elliott has been spending about 50% rotating through the midfield. Playing Fletch on Elliott is madness. last time we went that route Ballantyne cut up Fletcher.
 
A lot of reactionary thinking in this thread.

Carlisle is 22, and a mere 2.5 games into his career as a permanent KPF was thrown to the wolves against Warnock and Sandilands.
Hardly ideal.

KPF's feed on confidence more than any other position - with the way the ball was kicked to him on the weekend Wayne Carey wouldn't have had an impact. No wonder he was frustrated.

He has received his wake-up call - I for one am confident of an improved performance on Friday :thumbsu:
 
Doss said:
Daniher, Ryder/Bellchambers and Ambrose.
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Too big, not enough tricks, unwieldy, cumbersome and little scoreboard pressure. Teams with 2 or 3 decent tall defenders will be licking their licks. One of Hooker,Hurley and Carlisle need to play forward.
 
Carlisle FWD 2/10
Carlisle DEF 9/10
Hurley FWD 6/10
Hurley DEF 7/10

IMO we should DEFF play Carlisle back. That doesn't nessessary mean Hurley should play forward. We can fit Hurley/Carlisle/Hooker all in the defensive six. I'm happy with that.

Fletch can play fwd or be 'rested'.

The issue is what the hell do we do with our forward line. We have lost Monfries/Crameri/Gumbleton in the last couple of years. IMO Daniher just isn't ready but we have to play him as a nessessity. Goddard should be played in the 50 more and more. We need to look at drafting in a young KPP. We can't relay on just Daniher for the future. One forward doesn't work (look at Richmond/Carlton). Most gun sides have two KP forwards.
 
I'm firmly in the Daniher, Ryder/Bellchambers and Ambrose. up forward camp. Having said that, I am willing to persist with Carlisle up forward for a bit longer, things should come together for him as he clearly has the talent.
 
Carlisle played forward for three games last year.. was crap in all 3..

So he is now 5.5 games into his shitty 'forward' career.. I guess y'all want to wait another 10 weeks.. and then we can say that he is 15.5 games into his shitty 'forward' career...

Personally I'd prefer to move him back to defence, let him monster opposition forwards, provide intercept marking and be responsible for 20% of our scoring chains started from HB, like he was last year.. that kinda really worked for me.
 
rines said:
Carlisle played forward for three games last year.. was crap in all 3..

So he is now 5.5 games into his shitty 'forward' career.. I guess y'all want to wait another 10 weeks.. and then we can say that he is 15.5 games into his shitty 'forward' career...

Personally I'd prefer to move him back to defence, let him monster opposition forwards, provide intercept marking and be responsible for 20% of our scoring chains started from HB, like he was last year.. that kinda really worked for me.
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The only way he's going back is when Hirdy returns imo.
 
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
The only way he's going back is when Hirdy returns imo.
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Yep.. gonads are apparently linked to where he plays...

Gotta love this pearl "it wouldn't matter where he played, he is that out of form".. ummmm yeah ok. great confidence boost there. Maybe you should whack his recovery efforts while you are at it.. oh right you did already.. good work, carry on.
 

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Opinion Swap Carlisle & Hurley

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