Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Kwality]

When the NGA bidding rules were changed in the offseason and the Academy rules left untouched. I think the AFL is of the same opinion as the Swans fans.

The NGA was about the Melbourne clubs, nothing to do with growing the game.
The entrenched junior comps statewide for Aussie Rules will develop these kids, same in WA & SA, nowhere as easy. in States where other codes dominate.

How big are the junior rugby comps?

 

[Sphynx]

The NGA was about the Melbourne clubs, nothing to do with growing the game.
The entrenched junior comps statewide for Aussie Rules will develop these kids, same in WA & SA, nowhere as easy. in States where other codes dominate.

How big are the junior rugby comps?

The single biggest NGA program and benefactor of the program was Fremantle.

WB may have landed JUH, but Fremantle churned out how many top 25 prospects?

 

[Taylor]

But where is the incentive to pour money into development from grass roots if you have to enter and auction and pay more than the player is worth to draft them?

If Sydney develop a player from the age of 10 and he is a solid 2nd round pick and is bid on at say 24 but then they have to enter an auction with another club who has not committed any resources towards this person and have to in effect spend a first round worth of points on him - why would anyone bother when the hit rate re just getting an academy player onto a list is less than 0.5%.

Surely if having access is such a big benefit then all clubs would be happy to set up their own academies in NSW and Qld? Yet no one wants to do it. Why do you think that is?

There is a reason why Eddie was always asking for academies to be wound up and never asking for Collingwood to have access.

The incentive is that you can pick a player with your top five draft pick and then get an extra top ten draft pick with the points you pick up out of various later picks.

One of the great equalisers in this entire system was that the academy clubs used to be able to trade your first round picks for bulk later picks worth more points and hold onto them, getting both your talent and giving another non academy club a bump up the draft order.

So I would reopen that loophole too.

Then a side like Greater Northern Sydney Bayers can trade their pick #9 to the South Adelaide Tugs for their bulk extra picks - pick their academy player up when Mattholemu Kingston-Hemsworth-Briggs is bid on at #8 and South Adelaide get another look at the top ten talent.

The AFL controls where clubs can set up academies. All of WCE, FRE, ADE and POR wanted to include their metro indigenous talent in the NGA academies - the local indigenous elders were right behind this because it gave their young men access to the pathway no matter where they lived, the clubs were happy to give up priority access to ALL NGA talent inside the first round to accommodate that - AFL had to think long and hard about it.

For obvious reasons.

The AFL/Swans/Giants funding a uniform program for juniors in NSW and the AFL/Lions/Suns funding a uniform program for juniors in QLD would serve the purpose of introducing talent pathways for local juniors. I liked the idea of each club getting priority access to one player each in reverse ladder order, but from then on each club can decide how much it wants a player, by that time the player is already going to be an AFL player - they've been bid on.

The Swans spend approximately $2,000 per boy in their academy. If a club were to offer scholarships to rural indigenous young men to move to Perth and put them through high school costing $15,000 per boy per year - are they entitled to priority access and an even greater discount?

I'd expect the answer is no because the 500 boys in the Swans academy is about growing local talent interest in AFL, those goals are clear and have a financial feedback to the AFL - it's arguably why the Sydney clubs exist in the first place and having a community improvement program couldn't ever be an AFL priority when pokies are so heavily rewarding.

So long story short, the AFL should pay for the academies in NSW/QLD/NT and the clubs in those states can deal between themselves for access to that talent - because if paying for junior development was the reason a club gets priority access to talent then WCE should have Logan McDonald, Luke Jackson, Jordan Clark and Aaron Naughton on their list from the last four drafts.

 

[Taylor]

The single biggest NGA program and benefactor of the program was Fremantle.

WB may have landed JUH, but Fremantle churned out how many top 25 prospects?

One?

 

[Kwality]

Will this do?


View attachment 1095930

You are thinking of 1999.

No I am thinking of Tarryns father, not Lindsay. Am I wrong?

 

[Sphynx]

No I am thinking of Tarryns father, not Lindsay. Am I wrong?

We were talking about Bailey Scott/Robert Scott.

 

[boncer34]

It is usually nice to show people the courtesy of stating some kind of position or opinion when people are taking the time to post. Saying ‘source’ and not providing any meaningful contribution yourself isn’t going to get a great reaction most of the time. You might be unfamiliar with posting on forums I don’t know.

Yes it is an assumption based on seeing a decade of wind the academies back. If you’re running a PR campaign against the academies existence you don’t come out and show your hand and say ‘get rid of academies. We don’t want one just get rid of em’. So I doubt you’ll ever get a club coming out and saying it explicitly.

I've never had anyone get upset like that when asked for a source.

As it turns out it's because you didn't have one. Which is perfectly fine as I said, next time just say that instead of getting defensive.

 

[Elixuh]

I've never had anyone get upset like that when asked for a source.

As it turns out it's because you didn't have one. Which is perfectly fine as I said, next time just say that instead of getting defensive.

I was inconsolable.

 

[boncer34]

The single biggest NGA program and benefactor of the program was Fremantle.

WB may have landed JUH, but Fremantle churned out how many top 25 prospects?

The same as North?

 

[RUNVS]

I don't look at this thread for a few hours and it has already progressed 5 pages. There are games on Saturday night where their match threads move slower than that.

 

[boncer34]

I was inconsolable.

Strange melt. Oh well. Maybe I'm not the one unfamiliar with posting on a forum.

 

[Elixuh]

Strange melt. Oh well. Maybe I'm not the one unfamiliar with posting on a forum.

Ohhhh I gotcha now, sorry I didn’t mean to offend you with that comment. I’m on bigfooty mobile web thingy (all I can see if names and content posted) and just clicked on your profile and see you have a lot of posts. My bad. Apologies.

I am clearly just very distressed at the present.

 

[Alfonz]

The single biggest NGA program and benefactor of the program was Fremantle.

WB may have landed JUH, but Fremantle churned out how many top 25 prospects?

What on earth are you on about? We put effort into a big program. But so far we have a top 10 pick who averages 6 touches over his 5 games. Then 3 more on our list who were picked at 50, 55 and rookie and haven't played a game.

 

[Tedeski]

You realise all of the Victorian clubs had access to NSW talent via the NSW Scholarship scheme and completely ballsed it up?

So true Bruce.
Have a look at this information from 2010 regarding the NSW/ACT Scholarship Program.
Have a look at all the clubs that had players from the program at their clubs & see how many made it.

It is proof that they are few & far between & the program was very, very costly for clubs to run without the proper development of the players.
The AFL may have short memories but those in the know will not get rid of our academies knowing full well how many resources we are putting into our own one, whilst giving the whole competition a free leg up in having some access to those players we can't & don't take, who in turn can end up at other AFL clubs who can also cherry pick players such as Luke Parkes at a later time without having put ANY work or funds into their development.

NSW/ACT Scholarship Program

NSW/ACT Scholarships AFL Objectives > Attract quality athletes to our code by providing a direct path to the elite AFL competition. > To e...

afldraftinfo.blogspot.com

 

[Tedeski]

I should add that the only two notable players on those lists are Jarrod Witts

28

Jarrod Witts

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.8

4star

CL

3.3

5star

HO

31.8

5star

D

10.8

3star

K

5.9

2star

HB

4.9

3star

CL

3.4

4star

HO

29.5

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.6

3star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

8.0

5star

at Collingwood & Daniel Lloyd

38

Daniel Lloyd

Age

32

Ht

187cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.1

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.8

4star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

4star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

at Bulldogs.

Isn't it so ironic with all the whinging on here from Vic club supporters, that both players have ended up at Gold Coast & GWS respectively, two teams that actually have an academy.
So to go with all the sooking, they had these players at their club, yet couldn't develop them further into the players they seem to have become at their new clubs.

 

[RUNVS]

I should add that the only two notable players on those lists are Jarrod Witts at Collingwood & Daniel Lloyd at Bulldogs.

Isn't it so ironic with all the whinging on here from Vic club supporters, that both players have ended up at Gold Coast & GWS respectively, two teams that actually have an academy.
So to go with all the sooking, they had these players at their club, yet couldn't develop them further into the players they seem to have become at their new clubs.

I could be wrong but wasn't Taylor Walker a NSW Scholarship player?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I could be wrong but wasn't Taylor Walker a NSW Scholarship player?

Pretty sure yes, old system though.

 

[Tedeski]

I could be wrong but wasn't Taylor Walker a NSW Scholarship player?

From 2006. Not on this list from 2010.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Swans co-captain Josh Kennedy and chairman Andrew Pridham have hit back at academy critics, with the latter suggesting the AFL should “say goodbye to the father-son system” before tinkering with the Swans’ academy system.

And Swans champion and Brownlow Medallist Gerard Healy says rival clubs should look at their own recruiting misses before taking aim at the Swans’ talent pathway.

Sydney’s young guns have featured heavily in the club’s blistering 3-0 start to the 2021 season, especially 2020 academy graduates Errol Gulden and Braeden Campbell.

‘Go figure’: Andrew Pridham and Gerard Healy point out hypocrisy in rivals’ academy criticism

‘Go figure’: Swans boss and club great expose hypocrisy in rivals’ ‘outrageous’ academy swipe

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Kwality]

The single biggest NGA program and benefactor of the program was Fremantle.

WB may have landed JUH, but Fremantle churned out how many top 25 prospects?

Ignored the WA clubs because they will benefit. I dont support heartland States needing any incentive (priority picks), whereas the developing States need successful Academys to build local pathways.
How supporters of the game can ignore (deny) the benefits of their junior pathways amaze me.

It is only a matter of time before the NGA benefits the WA clubs & the normal suspects whinge.

 

[Kwality]

We were talking about Bailey Scott/Robert Scott.

... missed that, I was thinking NGA priority.

 

[Sphynx]

Ignored the WA clubs because they will benefit. I dont support heartland States needing any incentive (priority picks), whereas the developing States need successful Academys to build local pathways.
How supporters of the game can ignore (deny) the benefits of their junior pathways amaze me.

It is only a matter of time before the NGA benefits the WA clubs & the normal suspects whinge.

The apocalypse will come in the near future when a Northern Academy side bids on a first round NGA prospect, the parent club are unable to match under the new rules. Said Northern academy drafts NGA prospect, same side then matches bid on their own northern academy prospect a pick or two later in the first round. Double dipping on both.

Walking away with the NGA prospect and the northern Acadamy prospect.

This will happen and it may be the event that effects change in the Northern academy bidding process.

It would have been close to happening in 2019 with Liam Henry and Josh Green as an example under current rules.

 

[Kwality]

I support WC and I don't support special academy rules for WC (or Freo).

.... BUT, the developing States need support to offset our benefits, e.g Elliot Yeo.

WA has well established pathways & that helps WA put more players into the draft than the Eagles & Dockers pull out of the player pool.
The developing States dont have that luxury.

 

[Kwality]

The apocalypse will come in the near future when a Northern Academy side bids on a first round NGA prospect, the parent club are unable to match under the new rules. Said Northern academy drafts NGA prospect, same side then matches bid on their own northern academy prospect a pick or two later in the first round. Double dipping on both.

Walking away with the NGA prospect and the northern Acadamy prospect.

This will happen and it may be the event that effects change in the Northern academy bidding process.

It would have been close to happening in 2019 with Liam Henry and Josh Green as an example under current rules.

Disagree.
There are a set of rules with anomalies, but to isolate these versus the other anomalies in the AFL comp is self serving & not in the best interests of our national game.

 

[sherb]

Tassie is dead mate.

There were 3,500 Aus Kick participants in Tasmania last year, it's been lost to Soccer and Basketball.

8,000 junior footballers in total in the entire state.


But that's of no great interest to you guys, right?

Shows how well the Hawthorn/North ATM ventures, coupled with the AFL's "management" of the game there, have worked.