Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Sphynx]

Why does it seem to be only the draft that should have integrity?

The draft is the single most important mechanism in the football system. It needs to be uncompromised. It's so far from uncompromised atm the moments it's ridiculous.


The fixture should be rectified next.

The GF is further down the list, in reality it only affects 2 clubs per year and the current fixture inequalities actually play a huge factor in who those two sides are each year. It needs to be fixed first.

 

[Sphynx]

I actually said Aliir for Campbell was too cheap.....

Remove top 20 bidding, needs to be removed for all including F/S

I agree, top 20 bidding is the issue currently. The system wouldn't be perfect, but it would solve 95% of the problems.

I agree, it should also include F/S, as it has gotten to the point it's an unfair advantage against GWS/GC for the rest of the competition.

 

[Elixuh]

Source please.

Terrific contribution to the thread.

 

[boncer34]

Terrific contribution to the thread.

Well I was going to make outlandish claims and not back them up but it appears you have that covered.

I'm genuinely interested in who has said they don't want to do it. Can you please provide the source for the statement so I can have a read?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I personally really have ZERO issue with the Swans getting their own kids from their own Academy, allowing for the fact they match bids as any other club does. I really don't get what the fuss is all about. Literally only a handful of players have ever played senior footy and maybe 1 or 2 of them have actually been any good, Heeney and Mills come to mind.

COLA was always the thing that I took issue with, it was a ****ing joke of a system installed to make Sydney relevant in NSW in AFL's battle with NRL, but now that's gone its a much fairer playing field.

 

[Elixuh]

Well I was going to make outlandish claims and not back them up but it appears you have that covered.

Well ok if you are unwilling to engage and want to just take pot shots from the sidelines, I will engage with you.

If the purpose of the academies is to increase talent pathways for those in NSW and Qld, grow the game in these states and to increase the overall talent pool (amongst other things) and if this is such a big advantage for the four clubs and we are all getting first round pick after first round pick, then why is it that the agitators in Victoria have continually asked for the academies to be wound up over the past decade. Why wouldn’t they want a slice of the pie?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

So you admit your only incentive is to double up on players?

I'm not saying you can't still draft these kids, you can, if you have a pick high enough.


In that system, Sydney would have still walked away from 2020 with Braeden Campbell and Errol Gulden.


Gulden's bid would have been matched in the second round.

Sydney would have drafted Campbell with Pick #4.


Sorry, how is the above scenario unfair?

Why was Aliir Aliir worth Logan McDonald?

Your club passed on Logan for Phillips. Stop bleating about the unfairness of it all. Be a better club.

 

[Lockyer24]

As long as you are paying a fair price for the talent it’s fine with me.

 

[boncer34]

Well ok if you are unwilling to engage and want to just take pot shots from the sidelines, I will engage with you.

If the purpose of the academies is to increase talent pathways for those in NSW and Qld, grow the game in these states and to increase the overall talent pool (amongst other things) and if this is such a big advantage for the four clubs and we are all getting first round pick after first round pick, then why is it that the agitators in Victoria have continually asked for the academies to be wound up over the past decade. Why wouldn’t they want a slice of the pie?

So you've just assumed no-one wants it? Nobody actually said it.

And in answer to your question because there isn't a big enough talent pool in NSW to divide between 16/18 clubs so the AFL would never agree to it. One of the purposes is to get them playing AFL for Sydney/GWS/Brisbane/GC, opening that up to the 14 Other clubs defeats that purpose doesn't it?

I have no issues with the Swans academy or any other academy. I enjoy reading this thread and your comment interested me to read more on that topic. Hence asking for a source.

Your reaction has been bizarre, I don't understand you getting defensive and hostile instead of just saying "I don't have a source." No skin off my nose if you'd just said it was your own assumption rather than a statement of fact.

 

[zyzzbruh]

So you admit your only incentive is to double up on players?

I'm not saying you can't still draft these kids, you can, if you have a pick high enough.


In that system, Sydney would have still walked away from 2020 with Braeden Campbell and Errol Gulden.


Gulden's bid would have been matched in the second round.

Sydney would have drafted Campbell with Pick #4.


Sorry, how is the above scenario unfair?

Why was Aliir Aliir worth Logan McDonald?

Logan Mcdonald came thanks to our pick 4 for finishing 4th from bottom. So no it wasn't Aliir Aliir for Mcdonald.
If you want to spin it that way then call it Aliir Aliir + Second round pick + a shit tonne of resources + low player retention, for Braeden Campbell. Fair if you ask me. 90% of most VIC club lists are all VIC based players. If you don't see the massive advantage other clubs have in that then there's no helping ya.

Would love to see your argument if the case was that academies get the axe, however all clubs must have a maximum of 12 home grown players. Because only then would VIC clubs experience interstate club restrictions. There goes half your list, and all of a sudden every VIC club would be squirming and would have no choice but to pump money into interstate development. Right now every Vic club is more than happy wiping their hands clean of any interstate development simply because they can't be bothered, and don't need it thanks to their whole list being from VIC. Yet here they are still pointing fingers like a spoilt child.

Putting every aspect of the academies into consideration makes it a very rational and logical system.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Did they balls it up?

Tell me how?

I know they invested in a whole heap of kids that probably didn't deserve to be drafted at the time and gave them 1 to 2 seasons at AFL level of development.

It didn't work for all of them, but the strike rate was decent given the exposure and the opportunity they had for each kid. Remembering the total amount allowed each year was what, 30 to 40 kids in total across the entire comp? And the earliest opportunity they were allowed to access them was 17 years of age?

Now, give those clubs 3,000 kids I'm sure the results would have been different.

You can have 3,000 kids. Move to Tassie and make it a condition that you find the local development program and get priority access to the graduates. Hell, they’re even born and raised AFL down there.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

The draft is the single most important mechanism in the football system. It needs to be uncompromised. It's so far from uncompromised atm the moments it's ridiculous.


The fixture should be rectified next.

The GF is further down the list, in reality it only affects 2 clubs per year and the current fixture inequalities actually play a huge factor in who those two sides are each year. It needs to be fixed first.

And there’s your broad motherhood statement that justifies the angst over Academies whilst ignoring or kicking down the road all of the other inequities.

Why is the draft more important, say, than the welfare of young men being taken from their local communities at age 17/18?

 

[Elixuh]

So you've just assumed no-one wants it? Nobody actually said it.

And in answer to your question because there isn't a big enough talent pool in NSW to divide between 16/18 clubs so the AFL would never agree to it. One of the purposes is to get them playing AFL for Sydney/GWS/Brisbane/GC, opening that up to the 14 Other clubs defeats that purpose doesn't it?

I have no issues with the Swans academy or any other academy. I enjoy reading this thread and your comment interested me to read more on that topic. Hence asking for a source.

Your reaction has been bizarre, I don't understand you getting defensive and hostile instead of just saying "I don't have a source." No skin off my nose if you'd just said it was your own assumption rather than a statement of fact.

It is usually nice to show people the courtesy of stating some kind of position or opinion when people are taking the time to post. Saying ‘source’ and not providing any meaningful contribution yourself isn’t going to get a great reaction most of the time. You might be unfamiliar with posting on forums I don’t know.

Yes it is an assumption based on seeing a decade of wind the academies back. If you’re running a PR campaign against the academies existence you don’t come out and show your hand and say ‘get rid of academies. We don’t want one just get rid of em’. So I doubt you’ll ever get a club coming out and saying it explicitly.

 

[SM]

Absolutely. And no clubs would have issues with GWS and Swans pooling resources, after all then we wouldn't need two sets of coaches etc. would be cheaper for the two clubs to run.

Notice you went a bit quiet after this comment Taylor.. no response?

 

[Sphynx]

And there’s your broad motherhood statement that justifies the angst over Academies whilst ignoring or kicking down the road all of the other inequities.

Why is the draft more important, say, than the welfare of young men being taken from their local communities at age 17/18?

Does this come from the same place criticising mummy boy Victorian kids for preferring to stay at home?

 

[Sphynx]

You can have 3,000 kids. Move to Tassie and make it a condition that you find the local development program and get priority access to the graduates. Hell, they’re even born and raised AFL down there.

Tassie is dead mate.

There were 3,500 Aus Kick participants in Tasmania last year, it's been lost to Soccer and Basketball.

8,000 junior footballers in total in the entire state.


But that's of no great interest to you guys, right?

 

[Kwality]

He wanted to be close to Melbourne University for his studies.

Had nothing to do with football teams in the end, nor even who his father had won flags with.

& his father played in what flags?

 

[Kwality]

If I was Gil and said you can keep your academies as is with the following updates:
- removal of the discount
- you can only match with points from your next available pick, otherwise you go into a deficit for next year.

would you be happy?

We all benefit from NSW & Q developing players.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Does this come from the same place criticising mummy boy Victorian kids for preferring to stay at home?

I’ve wanted the draft age raised to 21 for at least 12 years now.

There are some who talk about Mummies’ boys. I don’t. I have, however, been more critical of older players using homesickness as a cover for getting out of contracts in hard times. Something the Academies should and do assist with allaying.

 

[Sphynx]

& his father played in what flags?

1996.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Tassie is dead mate.

There were 3,500 Aus Kick participants in Tasmania last year, it's been lost to Soccer and Basketball.

8,000 junior footballers in total in the entire state.


But that's of no great interest to you guys, right?

Yeah. NSW was dead too. And Gold Coast. And Brisbane.

Why don’t North just roll up their sleeves and get on with something, anything, rather than sit and bitch about the unfairness of it all.

Be a better club.

 

[Kwality]

I think West Coast would like to not cough up millions of dollars every year to prop up the WAFL.

It is a strength of the WA model, it cheap to avoid the AFL & its VFL hanger on'rs. The WAFL clubs do plenty in their zones & AFL zones are about getting their noses in come draft year.

 

[Sphynx]

Yeah. NSW was dead too. And Gold Coast. And Brisbane.

Why don’t North just roll up their sleeves and get on with something, anything, rather than sit and b*tch about the unfairness of it all.

Be a better club.

Lol. **** you lot are rich.

Do something about it?

We aren't allowed to.


You know there are rules around approaching, training, coaching players under the age of 19, right?



Do Sydney fund the entirity of AFL NSW?


No.

Hang on, I'm not doing it right - "Where's the incentive to train, invest and if we can't have top 5 picks and they are only pick 22... whinge whinge".


When the AFL abolishes the Tasmanian state side, abolishes the Tasmanian Nab League side, pumps a few hundred million into grass roots in schools and junior programs, sets up the North Academy in their place and funnels all 12+ year old registered male footballers in the state into it, readmits it into the Nab League yeah, we can probably do something about it.

 

[Kwality]

1996.

Got a link to support that?

 

[Sphynx]

Got a link to support that?

Will this do?




You are thinking of 1999.