Sydney's record in grand finals needs scrutinising

[sherb]

You know your desperate when your referencing the 1979 VFL GF

I know I shouldn't, as it will still trigger many Collingwood fans who still haven't gotten over it.

But the similarity was there, hence the reference. Collingwood kicked the first five goals, only to lose by 5 points, with both teams kicking 11 goals.

 

[LoungeLizard]

There was a Collingwood supporter acting high and mighty on the Swans board after the loss.

I'm not sure how the Pies can claim the moral high ground over the Swans - in my lifetime (and I go back a fair way) it's Collingwood 3 premierships to the Swans 2 premierships.

Not a lot between the two clubs based on that, although to be fair Collingwood have been better at losing Grand Finals - 11 (plus two draws) to the Swans' 6 (again in my lifetime).

Plus Collingwood still haven't completely shaken the wobbles, given their effort in 2018, shades of 1979 in that game.

So here you are whinging about Collingwood supporters having a go at Sydney and you don't even support Sydney.

My god some people are hilarious.

Yeah Collingwood are crap at winning, but since Carlton were caught cheating and penalised, they are the laughing stock of the league, both Sydney and Collingwood have Carlton covered, you need to make it to the big dance to lose it.

 

[theprospector]

Dont worry i can tell you dont understand. I'm saying that you're on fire.

Get outside mate and get some fresh air

 

[sherb]

So here you are whinging about Collingwood supporters having a go at Sydney and you don't even support Sydney.

My god some people are hilarious.

Yeah Collingwood are crap at winning, but since Carlton were caught cheating and penalised, they are the laughing stock of the league, both Sydney and Collingwood have Carlton covered, you need to make it to the big dance to lose it.

I'm a 31 year Swans member.

And my point was valid. Don't take shots at another club, on their board, when your club hasn't been much better. It reeks of a lack of self-awareness. And a lack of common courtesy.

 

[UncleImpairedRetina]

Get outside mate and get some fresh air

Genuinely already outside. It won't help. It's a birth defect.

 

[theprospector]

Genuinely already outside. It won't help. It's a birth defect.

You should be the one doing the comedy tour

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'm a 31 year Swans member.

And my point was valid. Don't take shots at another club, on their board, when your club hasn't been much better. It reeks of a lack of self-awareness.

If they want to go over there and risk being banned, that's up to them.

If you want to moderate, then put in for a moderating job.

 

[Lunchtime]

Collingwood copped both the loss and the margin in 1980........

Yep that's right.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

I know I shouldn't, as it will still trigger many Collingwood fans who still haven't gotten over it.

But the similarity was there, hence the reference. Collingwood kicked the first five goals, only to lose by 5 points, with both teams kicking 11 goals.

I see GF "wobbles" as being 7 goals down at HT rather than playing out and just losing a thriller

Cannot compare Sydney's disgraceful GFs to anything the Pies have done

 

[theprospector]

I'm a 31 year Swans member.

And my point was valid. Don't take shots at another club, on their board, when your club hasn't been much better. It reeks of a lack of self-awareness. And a lack of common courtesy.

classic diversion from yesterday

 

[sherb]

Good to see this thread is still about Sydney......

Yeah, sorry about that, I couldn't help but laugh at a Pies fan trying to assert the moral high ground over the Swans.

But - as to the thread topic, it's certainly a valid discussion to be held - which I hope the Swans do. Because losing their last 4 Grand Finals, three of them while putting in terrible performances, should not be considered acceptable.

Every club will eventually have a down period, which makes it vital that they capitalize on the times when they are up there. Four Grand Finals in an 11 season period is an amazing return, yet the Swans don't have a flag to show for it.

And flags - even Grand Final appearances - are considerably harder to achieve now than in the old VFL days, when there were only 12 teams. Now there are 18 teams, soon to be 19, with equalization measures in place. All the more reason to give it your best shot if you make the GF.

 

[Handsuper47]

I can't recall the exact moment it happened, either in the first quarter or early in the second, a Swans player (I wanna say it was Rampe) right outside the Lions F50 went down for the ball, tried to get a free kick and rather than focus on the game they looked at the umpire for a free while a Lions player took the ball and slotted in a goal. That moment said everything about how the Swans played that game (for me at least). Not enough focus on the hard stuff.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I can't recall the exact moment it happened, either in the first quarter or early in the second, a Swans player (I wanna say it was Rampe) right outside the Lions F50 went down for the ball, tried to get a free kick and rather than focus on the game they looked at the umpire for a free while a Lions player took the ball and slotted in a goal. That moment said everything about how the Swans played that game (for me at least). Not enough focus on the hard stuff.

I think it was Blakey
Was an awful look

 

[kickazz]

I can't recall the exact moment it happened, either in the first quarter or early in the second, a Swans player (I wanna say it was Rampe) right outside the Lions F50 went down for the ball, tried to get a free kick and rather than focus on the game they looked at the umpire for a free while a Lions player took the ball and slotted in a goal. That moment said everything about how the Swans played that game (for me at least). Not enough focus on the hard stuff.

Yeah reminded me of Schneider in 2009, focusing on trying to get frees and 50s instead of cracking in. Wrong mindset.

It was probably a free, but geez you don't stop playing. It was the look of a loser.

 

[SuperSub17]

I think this over analyzing it. The simple reality is that Sydney hadn't recaptured their form for the first 13 rounds. They hadn't really played well for 3 months. I posted earlier in this thread that on Grand Final day the winning team is normally the one who is in better form over the last 2 months. Brisbane had been in far better form in the recent 8-10 weeks than Sydney.

Look at Geelong 2022 as an example. They had a reputation over a 10-year period from 2012-2021 as being finals chokers. They had a terrible record in finals, an 0-5 record in Preliminary Finals (including some beltings). In 2022 however none of that mattered because they entered the finals with 15 straight wins. Champion Data indicated that their profile was so strong that it was almost impossible for them to not win the premiership. They of course won easily, as they did the week before versus Brisbane, proving that 2022 wasn't just a "Swans" thing. Brisbane also got belted. Why does no one criticize Brisbane in 2022 who lost just as heavily as Sydney?

Consider that Sydney was 13-1 after round 15 with a percentage of 149% this year.

Sydney's last 11 matches entering the Grand Final yielded only a 6-5 record with a percentage of 99.5%

Brisbane's last 19 matches yielded a 15-3-1 record with a percentage of 134%

So, that's really what the Grand Final was: A team that had a percentage of less than 100% (going by recent form) versus the hottest team in the competition. It's probably not a surprise, in retrospect, that Brisbane won easily. Nor was it a surprise in 2022 if you look at the form of Geelong. With a percentage of 99%, Sydney were essentially playing at "8th-9th-on-the-ladder" level for 3 months.

The reality is that Sydney did not enter the 2024 decider in good form and had not played consistently well for a long, long time. If they enter the Grand Final with the amazing recent form of Brisbane in 2024 or Geelong in 2022, there is every historical precedent to say they would be competitive. They really just need to ensure they are playing the best football of the year at the end rather than the start.

I don’t mind saying Brisbane’s form was overall better - and I tipped them yesterday reasonably confidently - but these stats are a bit cherry picked.

Alternatively, I can spin them this way:
From round 22 until grand final day-
Sydney 5-0 131%
Brisbane 4-2 109%

All of Sydney’s 5 losses came in a 6-week block, where they were clearly not up to standard. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say their following 5 games were significantly better - not to the heights of their May or June form, admittedly.

Also, 2022 saw them win 9 straight games heading into the GF at a % of 144. Yes Geelong were even better, but there is NO WAY that team should’ve lost by anywhere near as much as they did.

This is now a pattern of behaviour.

 

[Asapartyhat]

The Hawks were favourites in that GF. They were thrashed at Princes Park, but treated the return game in Perth as a recon mission which completely set them up for what really was an upset, their win in the QF again in Perth. By this point, it was the same old premiership minded Hawks, and once they narrowly got past the Cats they were going to beat whoever they fronted up against. WC were the dominant team for five of the six months of that season, but that loss to Fitzroy has since been revealed by insiders as indicative of one or two problems the team was facing in September 1991...

Freo in 2013 is a perfect example of what you're talking about, though. Hawks were favourites, heaviest scoring team in the comp, but there was a huge swell for Freo because their defence was almost legendary. But you win games by scoring, and those of us watching as Hawk fans felt no great worry even when Freo got themselves a goal down late...we knew we had the guns and it would happen, and sure enough. No surprises when Freo's first trade targets after that were forwards...they were desperate enough to make Colin Sylvia their focus...

1991 is ancient history now and the Eagles accept that they were outplayed in the finals in 1991.
But in 1991 the Eagles finished the season on top with a percentage of 165 and conceded about five hundred points less that season than the second best defensive team. After that grand final the Eagles tweaked the game plan with less resources dedicated to defence and won two of the next three grand finals.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Yeah reminded me of Schneider in 2009, focusing on trying to get frees and 50s instead of cracking in. Wrong mindset.

It was probably a free, but geez you don't stop playing. It was the look of a loser.

Not an isolated incident, a few of them were looking for frees especially Heeney

Can't expect frees in a GF even obvious ones, umps are nervous too

 

[le dominateur]

Sydney being non competitive spoilt the day to be honest, it was such a pathetic effort.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RCAB]

Sydney being non competitive spoilt the day to be honest, it was such a pathetic effort.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It has to be Longmire.

They have the runs on the board, the players, the wins, but even after the loss, he provided no real insight into it and hardly seemed disappointed.

For decades now, we've been told how well Sydney is run as a club, essentially suggesting they’re the best. They don’t need to bottom out, always make finals, and are always in contention. Yet... are they happy with this status? Maybe, just maybe, they’re content with it all. The media never criticizes them, always praising them for being 'on top'.

 

[Defabs]

They were never getting past Harris Andrews. A great game by him. Pressure is the key. Be relentless and the best will crack at some point.

On another note, that call of Sydney being equal to or better than Essendon of 2000. Haha

Only one man can take down Harris Andrews and we all know who that man is

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Give them some more priority, sorry academy, picks. That should help.

 

[Toump Ass]

I can't recall the exact moment it happened, either in the first quarter or early in the second, a Swans player (I wanna say it was Rampe) right outside the Lions F50 went down for the ball, tried to get a free kick and rather than focus on the game they looked at the umpire for a free while a Lions player took the ball and slotted in a goal. That moment said everything about how the Swans played that game (for me at least). Not enough focus on the hard stuff.

Nick Blakey.
I don't follow the swans closely but I've really enjoyed watching him play and never seen him duck before, I was genuinely shocked by that.

Said everything about his team's mindset IMO, hoping the umpire would get involved so they didn't have to? Absolutely weak as piss.

Also saw on Reddit he was posting pictures of himself last night with the caption "life so good" while he's off his nut on powders... not a great look.

Edit: soz already answered. FWIW great call from the umpire IMO, he ducked his head.

 

[Defabs]

Another reason a lot of Pies fans took pleasure in yesterday. Papley rubbed it in hard after winning the ‘22 prelim. Would gladly never see him win one.

ironic that since he carried on about his “forward craft” and really rubbed it into Pies fans following the 2022PF, he has played in 2 losing GFs and the Pies went on to win in 2023.

 

[domus]

Is there bad blood between the swans and pies or something? I've seen a lot of pies supporters really revelling in Sydney's loss. Not just on BF but everywhere the game is being discussed. Seeing a lot of pies fans that seem extra invested and it feels odd.

I was all aboard the Lion's wagon throughout the finals as they were so classy in defeat last year. Sydney on the other hand have an arrogant strain which shits me. Longmire clearly has a chip on his shoulder about us and Fly so that's a good reason to be delighted with yesterday's outcome.

Sydney's previous president hated us and Eddie with a passion and never hid the fact.

Most supporters have a couple of teams they have a particular hatred for and it's not always logical.

 

[Freomaniac]

Geelong didn't exactly destroy Collingwood in the QF

We talking about te 2022 Cats Vs Magpies QF?

Yeah.... it was only a 6 point loss to magpies. You beat my mob the next week by 20 points then lost by a point in the prelim. It was a tight top 6.