Sydney's record in grand finals needs scrutinising

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Yeah cats were crap in 94, but you are wrong about 89 - they gave up a bad first q lead due to poor discipline but were very competitive in one of the toughest grand finals ever after that. Mentioning only the Hawthorn injuries - probably need to do a bit of research on this game.

Yep both teams had blokes injured. Geelong were clearly our biggest threat to a flag that year because once you guys got going you could score very heavily. Happened in the game earlier that year was an absolute belter with over 50 goals kicked. We did enough in the last QTR to keep you guys at bay scoring a few times against the flow. Anderson kicked a big goal from a centre bounce from memory.

 

[eddiesmith]

Sydney starting SO many games poorly and then coming back is really interesting.

Were they just fitter earlier in the year? Were they a little bit arrogant, getting away with it a few times? Whilst it would have been good for them to know that they had the comeback in them, it did seem like they were learning bad habits.

Or is it simply a case of having a game style more suited when players are a bit more tired and things open up? That can be a strength, sure, but to exploit that in a final you really need to lock down and hold the fort in the first half. Teams get too much adrenaline when they have big leads in Grand Finals. There's no next week to preserve the body for, to take the foot off the gas. It's go, go go.

It’s interesting to compare to Collingwood who regularly came back in 2023, but come finals they went out hard and led at qtr time in every game and for all 4 qtrs on grand final day.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

At least when Geelong lost 89, 92, 94 and 95 we were the underdogs in each game. And gave '92 and '94 a decent crack before running out of legs.

Sydney were favourites in three of their disasters. Even their excuses are embarrassing. In 2016, they kicked 3.4 to 6.10 in the second half, and somehow blame the umpires for a 22 point loss.

94 you were blown off the park. Could have been 100 points had the Eagles kicked straight over 40 scoring shots. 92 and 2020 were your biggest opportunities to win flags because you were well in the hunt in the 3rd qtr of both and it took 2 players Matera and Dusty taking the games away from you. Not really comparable to the Swans getting belted in 3 of their last 4 Gf's and losing the unloseable to the Dogs after going in warm favourites. There would be more scrutiny if it was any Victorian team but when it's 1 of the media and AFL's lovechild they get off scot free. Pridham and Co make sure of that with their anti Vic bias.

 

[Pistol Night]

It’s interesting to compare to Collingwood who regularly came back in 2023, but come finals they went out hard and led at qtr time in every game and for all 4 qtrs on grand final day.

The “thrill of the chase” game style isn’t a dice you want to roll in finals. Scoring is hard enough

 

[Pistol Night]

94 you were blown off the park. Could have been 100 points had the Eagles kicked straight over 40 scoring shots. 92 and 2020 were your biggest opportunities to win flags because you were well in the hunt in the 3rd qtr of both and it took 2 players Matera and Dusty taking the games away from you. Not really comparable to the Swans getting belted in 3 of their last 4 Gf's and losing the unloseable to the Dogs after going in warm favourites. There would be more scrutiny if it was any Victorian team but when it's 1 of the media and AFL's lovechild they get off scot free. Pridham and Co make sure of that with their anti Vic bias.

The 90s were just shit for GFs from a neutral perspective

 

[Gavin Excell]

Yep both teams had blokes injured. Geelong were clearly our biggest threat to a flag that year because once you guys got going you could score very heavily. Happened in the game earlier that year was an absolute belter with over 50 goals kicked. We did enough in the last QTR to keep you guys at bay scoring a few times against the flow. Anderson kicked a big goal from a centre bounce from memory.

Totally off topic but the next match up was r1 the following year when the competition back then featured the grand final rematch in the opening round

Was pretty even to half time after which Hawks absolutely thumped Geelong by 115 points

Possibly a combination of Cats players drinking own bathwater and Hawk senior players wanting to smash the upstart rival

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Totally off topic but the next match up was r1 the following year when the competition back then featured the grand final rematch in the opening round

Was pretty even to half time after which Hawks absolutely thumped Geelong by 115 points

Possibly a combination of Cats players drinking own bathwater and Hawk senior players wanting to smash the upstart rival

1990 we should have played off in the GF, we were still pretty strong across the board just injuries at the wrong time and Melbourne ended up being our kryptonite that year.

 

[windyhill]

Like the petition that we started banning Essendon from winning a final again? Think that petition started in 2004 from memory

And fair enough too ! 16 flags is ridiculously greedy.

 

[Gavin Excell]

1990 we should have played off in the GF, we were still pretty strong across the board just injuries at the wrong time and Melbourne ended up being our kryptonite that year.

Yeah I sometimes wonder had Geelong had its 89 year the following year would likely have won it as Pies and Dons weren't that flash sides

 

[Looney]

I can honestly say I can cope with losing grand finals. I have no issues with '06 and '16, great contests and we were right in both of them. I'd be fine losing to GWS. I can see the bigger picture too, of the boost to the game nationally.

Getting very sick of being thrashed in grand finals though.

Getting trashed is actually easier to handle than losing in a close one. I've witnessed Collingwood getting trashed a few times but 2002 and 2018 still haunts me the most.

 

[RUNVS]

Getting trashed is actually easier to handle than losing in a close one. I've witnessed Collingwood getting trashed a few times but 2002 and 2018 still haunts me the most.

At least in the close ones you can feel a bit of pride in your club, even if it hurts more.

 

[PP34]

That's an absolutely unverifiable assertion. Second place after 23 games is second place.

Second place in a year where teams were practically falling over themselves doing their best to miss the 8 entirely.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Second place in a year where teams were practically falling over themselves doing their best to miss the 8 entirely.

Whatever. Eighteen teams playing 23 games over nearly six months, wherever a team ends up is where they deserve to end up.

 

[Daka]

That's right. More ground to cover meaning a tad more difficult. If a team isn't used to defending wide space then it can show.

All you need is speed & power a couple of meters, and your opponents are cooked.
The athletic profile of the Lions 23 compared to the Swans, if they played anywhere close to their best in hindsight were always winning that game.

 

[Osho]

Now that it's been scrutinised, can we go home?

I'd prefer Swans actually do something about it.

 

[Macca180]

Still shocked Sydney didn't show up again.

Was not expecting a flogging at all.

Good for us. Nightmare for Sydney fans. Boring for neutrals.

 

[lumpinee]

AFL needs to revert back to a 22 game H&A season.theres enuff junk games as it is
pure greed

 

[lumpinee]

Still shocked Sydney didn't show up again.

Was not expecting a flogging at all.

Good for us. Nightmare for Sydney fans. Boring for neutrals.

not at all,if its elite level footy have no trouble watching unless the team you support is on the end of it and as long as its not Carlton,Collingwood,Essendon,Geelong or Hawthorn you can throw Melbourne n St.Kilda into that mix as well.
love me an all interstate GF when tiges arent featuring just as long as GWS or Brisbane are the victors then its digestible

 

[Osho]

Still shocked Sydney didn't show up again.

Was not expecting a flogging at all.

Good for us. Nightmare for Sydney fans. Boring for neutrals.

H1 was very good.
Q2 was fabulous football.
Q3 was franking the dividends.
Q4 was lackadaisical.
Q5, celebrations, were immense, and inspirational for this neutral, espesh the big O, the older blokes, and the coach.

 

[Cuzz09]

I was neutral but enjoyed it.

Brisbane were as good as Sydney were bad.

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[Angry Red Bull]

Paul roos wrote an article relating to Swans. He believes there are two things wrong. The fact swans went away from fierce contested defence to our current game plan relying on talent but not stopping goals. He also believes that if there are players (even the most talented) who don't have the ability to perform in a GF we should trade them away..

His second suggestion relies on the belief that choking or loss aversion isn't a manageable problem. Rather, I think it's another characteristic that can be taught with the right psychology management. And specific strategies. The start should be to identify who are the players who succumb. IF there is underlying failure to perform at the highest level then arguably that should likewise exist in all finals games and top of table contests during the year. It didn't. So I'm thinking we don't toss the players away.

One of the solutions is prevalence of exposure. The more you encounter the situation the more accustomed you become in response. You can't replicate a GF but the more you have the more likely you cope.

It's something that needs Horses focus for sure..will be interesting to see reaction.would they really trade away a Blakey or Warner.? Errol perhaps? I don't know..... seems radical if you ask me. Interesting times.

I had suggested earlier that getting stuck in from start IS a practical solution to choking as hard hits, tackles, chasing etc affects physiology to negate stress..

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Swans had the easiest path to Grand Final having had the weeks break before first final then straight to PF. 3 games in 5 weeks. Their pressure should have been elite. It has been at stages during H & A.. so this analysis confirms my belief there were several choking under pressure. I admit I stopped watching mid way through second quarter so I can't name names. But analysis and identifying them is essential to moving forward for swans.

 

[WillHayward]

I feel like the Swans have escaped scrutiny.. huge damage to the brand.
Remember for lots of people, especially in NSW, this is the only game people watch all year.
Broadcasters would be pissed off and set NSW fans footy back years.

 

[Cuzz09]

Yeah but that helps them too

No one really GAF 5 mins after the game up there


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