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zumahawk said:
How many parents in general spend time on their socials while they should be cultivating a relationship with their children? The only 'social media" I have is BigFooty and trying to keep to a minimum. It's a scrouge. The more government do to regulate platforms the better for society.
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Socialization in person also holds some of the same negative potential as social media, especially for radicalization. Therefore I propose the government go a step further and ban everyone under 16 from socializing while unaccompanied by an adult or teacher. Of course, to enforce we will need everyone over 16 to have papers at all times to present to the authorities while outside of their home with other people. The more the government does to regulate our interactions the better for society.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Socialization in person also holds some of the same negative potential as social media, especially for radicalization. Therefore I propose the government go a step further and ban everyone under 16 from socializing while unaccompanied by an adult or teacher. Of course, to enforce we will need everyone over 16 to have papers at all times to present to the authorities while outside of their home with other people. The more the government does to regulate our interactions the better for society.
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Do you realise the harm that social media does to teenagers? It's not a commie thing to want to keep under 16s safe.
 
Chief said:
Gambling and drinking don't require the person submit their personal details to a new central government ID database. Doesn't place a control on people's ability to communicate. Doesn't block vulnerable kids from reaching out via a popular communication channel. All that stuff.

They're not the same.

I agree social media is not good for many kids, but this solution has so many holes and unintended consequences it can't get through.
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Similar to the vape ban, it is a policy which will have massive unintended consquences while likely not addressing the issue, yet so many are just playing the emotive argument and refuse to engage with actual concerns instead hammering away on "But vaping/social media is BAD!, how can I strawman to paint this person raising concerns as promoting kids on social media/vapes".

Will be interesting to see if Labor opts for the Mark Butler technique of employing the wagging finger to distract people from flimsy reasoning.
 

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zumahawk said:
Do you realise the harm that social media does to teenagers? It's not a commie thing to want to keep under 16s safe.
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It's excacerbates the harm that bullying does to teenagers. Therefore being able to regulate all socialization and therefore all bullying would keep under 16s even safer. Why do YOU not care enough about under 16's to support my proposed policy?
 
Richard Pryor said:
Similar to the vape ban, it is a policy which will have massive unintended consquences while likely not addressing the issue, yet so many are just playing the emotive argument and refuse to engage with actual concerns instead hammering away on "But vaping/social media is BAD!, how can I strawman to mock this person promoting kids on social media/vapes".

Will be interesting to see if Labor opts for the Mark Butler technique of employing the wagging finger to distract people from flimsy reasoning.
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I agree there are unintended consequences but that's happen with government policy since time immoral. Nothing is perfect but most agree that vaping being illegal is a positive and keeping social media regulated the same especially for the kids. Adults won't be affected.
 
zumahawk said:
I agree there are unintended consequences but that's happen with government policy since time immoral. Nothing is perfect but most agree that vaping being illegal is a positive and keeping social media regulated the same especially for the kids. Adults won't be affected.
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Have you even read what enforcement is being proposed? How exactly is requiring verifying ID to access any website that facilitates user content and communication between end users (seriously, this is the definition the government is proposing to use to define social media) not going to affect adults? Labor has even mentioned the possibility of using biometric face scanning as a potential method of identity verification.

Also vaping being illegal is absolutely not a positive specifically in the case of preventing teens from vaping. The government cracked down on dedicated vape stores which actually took government regulations seriously surrounding ID and nicotine levels. Teens purchase disposable vapes (which were already illegal) with completely unregulated nicotine content from milk bars that don't check ID and since they were already breaking the law the new regulations didn't impact this at all and if anything drove the illegal vape industry into overdrive by pushing all of the adult vapers into the illegal market.

Since unintended consequences don't matter as long as something is being done I question why exactly you have an issue my regulate socialization bill.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Have you even read what enforcement is being proposed? How exactly is requiring verifying ID to access any website that facilitates user content and communication between end users (seriously, this is the definition the government is proposing to use to define social media) not going to affect adults? Labor has even mentioned the possibility of using biometric face scanning as a potential method of identity verification.

Also vaping being illegal is absolutely not a positive specifically in the case of preventing teens from vaping. The government cracked down on dedicated vape stores which actually took government regulations seriously surrounding ID and nicotine levels. Teens purchase disposable vapes (which were already illegal) with completely unregulated nicotine content from milk bars that don't check ID and since they were already breaking the law the new regulations didn't impact this at all and if anything drove the illegal vape industry into overdrive by pushing all of the adult vapers into the illegal market.

Since unintended consequences don't matter as long as something is being done I question why exactly you have an issue my regulate socialization bill.
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Have a good day Richard Pryor
 
Growing up a gay kid in the 80s I would have killed for the sort of platform to meet and talk to other kids like me which now exists online. Everyone seems to be big on talking about the harm social media does kids while almost completely the positive outcomes like that that a digital world can provide.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Have you even read what enforcement is being proposed? How exactly is requiring verifying ID to access any website that facilitates user content and communication between end users (seriously, this is the definition the government is proposing to use to define social media) not going to affect adults? Labor has even mentioned the possibility of using biometric face scanning as a potential method of identity verification.
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It'll be interesting to see how Australian law will apply to overseas hosted platforms.
 
PiCkLeJuiCe said:
It'll be interesting to see how Australian law will apply to oversees hosted platforms.
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Albanese has mentioned fining social media companies, but that won't do anything. They'll just block Australia from accessing their sites if the government is able to actually get teeth stuck into them since we're such an insignificant market.

Will also be interesting to see how they actually end up defining social media. So far the definition they have provided would include snapchat which they're now saying will be exempt, but they've also confirmed they will be banning youtube, which I think in most people's minds is far less of a social media platform than snapchat. I don't see how they craft a social media definition which somehow includes youtube but doesn't include snapchat.
 
zumahawk said:
Do you realise the harm that social media does to teenagers? It's not a commie thing to want to keep under 16s safe.
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Do you realise the good social media does for teenagers?

Bullying is a problem. But its both a real life problem and a social media problem. Stop bullying is what the focus should be.
 

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Richard Pryor said:
Similar to the vape ban, it is a policy which will have massive unintended consquences while likely not addressing the issue, yet so many are just playing the emotive argument and refuse to engage with actual concerns instead hammering away on "But vaping/social media is BAD!, how can I strawman to paint this person raising concerns as promoting kids on social media/vapes".

Will be interesting to see if Labor opts for the Mark Butler technique of employing the wagging finger to distract people from flimsy reasoning.
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Rant incoming, but I hadn'nt thought to make this comparison and I'm glad someone did. Plicy surrounding vaping - particularly the ban on the importation of nicotine oil back in 2020 - is actually an excellent example of an overreaching policy that created wayyy more issues than it solved.

To that point, it was actually very rare to see disposable vapes in Australia. Instead, all the parts would be obtained separately - nicotine oil, flavouring/glycerine, batteries, the vape itself and all it's individual parts. As you mentioned, vape stores that existed then actually cared about regulation. By having all of the parts separate it made vapes a reasonably effective tool for quitting because the user could decide how potent they wanted their nicotine/juice mix to be. There wouldn't be statistics for this, but I'd wager very good money that for most vape users to that point that their mix was far less potent than you get in disposable vapes.

The obvious and smart thing to do would have been to recognise the harm minimisation potential AND recognise that nicotine oil would have been a rare instance of something I suspect most users would have been happy to be taxed on.

Instead, the importation of nicotine oil is banned with bipartisan support by the major parties, and lo and behold, those vape stores (would have been hundreds, if not thousands, of them) close down, many of them having been run by people who legitimately wanted to help others, and in their places appear illegal tobacconists that absolutely flood the market with disposable vapes AND illegal tobacco. So effectively, they managed to kill honest businesses and in place of one minor issue (arguable it even was one) they created two much bigger issues.

What really bothers me in hindsight is that until legitimate vape stores were rendered entirely obsolete this year, there were a few local ones I visited where you would see people, including youths, come in and enquire about disposable vapes, and the owners/store clerks generally didn't just tell them no, they would actually try to explain why they didn't stock them and hke harmful they were. Because they actually cared about what they were doing. The illegal tobacconists that have replaced them DGAF. Why bother asking for ID to sell a product that's illegal in the first place?

Anyway, that rant was extensively long, but it would have been nice if ALP & LNP learned something... anything... from the nicotine importation ban re: harm minimisation, but I guess doubling down this year confirmed that wasn't the case. Seems like they're intent to fall into the same trap with social media and create more problems while failing to fix another. Similar to what happened with vapes, I think alternative online communities that will only prove harder to regulate will pop-up if they go ahead with this.
 
zumahawk said:
It's not a commie thing to want to keep under 16s safe.
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Everyone wants to keep children safe.

We just have differing views on how to go about it.

Queensland's blanket phone bans in schools have worked well.

I would not be against people needing to get a code or key that identified their age, but no other information, and needing to use this to get into the big social media systems, with features turned off for minors.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Albanese has mentioned fining social media companies, but that won't do anything. They'll just block Australia from accessing their sites if the government is able to actually get teeth stuck into them since we're such an insignificant market.

Will also be interesting to see how they actually end up defining social media. So far the definition they have provided would include snapchat which they're now saying will be exempt, but they've also confirmed they will be banning youtube, which I think in most people's minds is far less of a social media platform than snapchat. I don't see how they craft a social media definition which somehow includes youtube but doesn't include snapchat.
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And there you have the real motivation for this policy from both side of the political duopoly. It’s why they’re both keen on it.

They honesty want a Chinese or North Korean-style media landscape. That’s not overstating it. Their entire existence and way of doing business is predicated on capturing the media. That’s always been relatively easy in Australia as ownership is concentrated.

It’s exactly the same as the ****ing news bargaining code that the LNP attempted. Different way of skinning the same cat. There were suggestions that social media companies would be fined whenever somebody shared a news link that hadn’t been paid for.

Same response - “social media operators will just block Australia”. And the major parties rejoiced at the thought. That’s their end game.

I can’t ever see it happening. It’s too late. Social media is too ingrained already and people will not cop losing it. We’d end up with a bloody Greens or UAP government if they promised not to pursue this while the majors do.
 
Seeds said:
Do you realise the good social media does for teenagers?

Bullying is a problem. But its both a real life problem and a social media problem. Stop bullying is what the focus should be.
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I’ve said it over and again. Parents need to be held accountable - and I mean legally - for bullying perpetrated by their children.

That’s how to tackle this.

And if the bullying is on social media, the evidence is available.
 
Cleavy said:
"take reasonable steps" oh, just put in your birthdate but we won't validate it, we'll put the onus back on the user to be truthful with the information they are supplying upon registration...

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The US already has the COPPA law to protect children under 12. Far as I know, companies do just about nothing to verify the age of their users. Sort of a don't ask don't tell deal that they get away with.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
And there you have the real motivation for this policy from both side of the political duopoly. It’s why they’re both keen on it.

They honesty want a Chinese or North Korean-style media landscape. That’s not overstating it. Their entire existence and way of doing business is predicated on capturing the media. That’s always been relatively easy in Australia as ownership is concentrated.

It’s exactly the same as the ****ing news bargaining code that the LNP attempted. Different way of skinning the same cat. There were suggestions that social media companies would be fined whenever somebody shared a news link that hadn’t been paid for.

Same response - “social media operators will just block Australia”. And the major parties rejoiced at the thought. That’s their end game.

I can’t ever see it happening. It’s too late. Social media is too ingrained already and people will not cop losing it. We’d end up with a bloody Greens or UAP government if they promised not to pursue this while the majors do.
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They're scared that they've lost control of the message.

These days bullshit can be called out in realtime. The media don't like it for the same reason.
 

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