Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[boncer34]

You expected not to be 0-3 with the first 3 games all against last years Top-4?

Port the only one of those who looks to have genuinely fallen off a cliff, whilst a Melbourne v Brisbane GF wouldn't surprise me at all.

We were pretty insipid against Geelong, but the last 2 weeks we've basically been what you'd expect - a rebuilding mid-table side not yet good enough to go with a Top-4 side.

That we had enough scoring shots to beat Brisbane was a surprise, and that we managed to stop Melbourne really blowing out the game despite being a class above was a good sign.

I don't think the group is shit, we've performed exactly to where I thought we would this season.

I'm just sympathetic, to a degree, for those who aren't happy with how we're going. We're into our 5th season since we had the players were banned and COVID impacted all clubs equally. (West Coast would argue that point)

I'm quietly optimistic we're going the right way but decisions like giving Smith 2 years (I defended this at the time but I got it wrong), recruiting a 25 year old who seemingly isn't a ready made player and ignoring holes like experienced KPP depth are very valid concerns. And all have happened in the last 2 years.

 

[faible]

So we're performing to about what you'd expect, or we're not? It's unclear.

 

[boncer34]

So we're performing to about what you'd expect, or we're not? It's unclear.

Just read the thread next time. Who knows, maybe you'll follow a conversation.

 

[faible]

Just read the thread next time. Who knows, maybe you'll follow a conversation.

I did. Seemed like you plucked a strange point to go with the 'Ok.' comment.

 

[boncer34]

I did. Seemed like you plucked a strange point to go with the 'Ok.' comment.

Ok.

 

[yodellinhank]

So basically you are calling it as a fail 14 months in.

It will be a fail if we keep refusing to address the same problems over and over again. But give it some time and we can sack Rutten, then the new coach will get a clean slate, years to change the direction of the club, and a whole heap of flankers to do it with.

 

[faible]

It will be a fail if we keep refusing to address the same problems over and over again. But give it some time and we can sack Rutten, then the new coach will get a clean slate, years to change the direction of the club, and a whole heap of flankers to do it with.

So i'm assuming that if the club makes a mistake, then tries to rectify it, you plan to give them no time whatsoever to do so, before wanting them to immediately rectify it, again.

 

[ant555]

It will be a fail if we keep refusing to address the same problems over and over again. But give it some time and we can sack Rutten, then the new coach will get a clean slate, years to change the direction of the club, and a whole heap of flankers to do it with.

So how is Rutten part of previous thinking?

 

[yodellinhank]

I never said 2 years. Have been solid on nailing 2 or 3 drafts in a 4 or 5 year period.

What's the bar for "nailed"?

I'm a bit worried about the past 5. Say you call 2015 nailed (McGrath + Ridley), we got nothing in 17 or 18, hopefully Bryan can add to Snelling & Jones make 19 a tick. Too early to tell on 2020 hopefully Perkins is joined by both Cox & Reid or if one of the project talls comes through. Looking at about 2 players per draft?

Obviously there's trades & free agency to take into account, but if we're failing at the draft table it's playing catch up and trying to repair the damage a bit. You're always going to "overpay" to bring in talent via trades (really it's just having to pay the price instead of hoping for the jackpot of a successful pick)

 

[yodellinhank]

So how is Rutten part of previous thinking?

He isn't. And I've personally loved how refreshing it has been that we've had things happen like senior players dropped for under performance, not rushed back under done from injury etc.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Think this is becoming an Essendon thread. Let's agree to disagree and keep it Non-Essendon.

**** Carlton.

 

[Lore]

So basically you are calling it as a fail 14 months in.

If the bar for success is a premiership win, then we have a 1/18 chance of success assuming every club is equally capable of winning a flag. Predicting a fail at 17-1 is exceptionally good odds. Taking into account that there are at least 3 clubs that are definitely a lot stronger and better drilled than us, if we were to call it a four horse race, it's still 3-1 for a fail, very good odds. So really, expecting anything other than failure is a pipe dream.

 

[Lore]

This is your one notification instead of 34 boncer34

 

[BrunoV]

Just as a brief catch all response, for now, the development of the competition is not static which is why I started down the path I did here.

It's well and good to say we lost 3 games we were expected to lose but Carlton is now doing what it should, beating up sides and feeding what could realistically be the best tall forward combination in the league by the end of the year.

The Hawks have clearly improved and are likely on par with us. St Kilda is looking solid enough, with a model similar to Carlton, really intense inside feeding a gun tall forward with plenty of other small forward options at his feet.

The Pies look solid.

You're brave if you're predicting Port won't catch fire at some stage, which is not to say I think they can win the flag (rightly or wrongly I've never really taken them seriously as a flag threat).

For all of these sides it's all built on a foundation of unsexy inside grit we refuse to acknowledge.

What do we fall back on? Why should we be confident in what we are building that we won't end up closer to the bottom 4 this year. Why does it come good enough to challenge in light of what everyone else is doing?

 

[ant555]

What's the bar for "nailed"?

I'm a bit worried about the past 5. Say you call 2015 nailed (McGrath + Ridley), we got nothing in 17 or 18, hopefully Bryan can add to Snelling & Jones make 19 a tick. Too early to tell on 2020 hopefully Perkins is joined by both Cox & Reid or if one of the project talls comes through. Looking at about 2 players per draft?

Obviously there's trades & free agency to take into account, but if we're failing at the draft table it's playing catch up and trying to repair the damage a bit. You're always going to "overpay" to bring in talent via trades (really it's just having to pay the price instead of hoping for the jackpot of a successful pick)

I am not grouping the last 5 as there has been a clear change in how the do things and direction before the 2020 draft.
My view is 2020 and 2021 are separate from the previous because the 18 and 19 period we were topping up with trades to build on the group we had .

 

[yodellinhank]

So really, expecting anything other than failure is a pipe dream.

FML

 

[ant555]

Just as a brief catch all response, for now, the development of the competition is not static which is why I started down the path I did here.

It's well and good to say we lost 3 games we were expected to lose but Carlton is now doing what it should, beating up sides and feeding what could realistically be the best tall forward combination in the league by the end of the year.

The Hawks have clearly improved and are likely on par with us. St Kilda is looking solid enough, with a model similar to Carlton, really intense inside feeding a gun tall forward with plenty of other small forward options at his feet.

The Pies look solid.

You're brave if you're predicting Port won't catch fire at some stage, which is not to say I think they can win the flag (wrightly or wrongly I've never really taken them seriously as a flag threat).

For all of these sides it's all built on a foundation of unsexy inside grit we refuse to acknowledge.

What do we fall back on? Why should we be confident in what we are building that we won't end up closer to the bottom 4 this year. Why does it come good enough to challenge in light of what everyone else is doing?

Coach has outlined we want to build a blue collar hard working side. Given we have been far from it it will take time . Last year we got further than most thought but maybe we just won 3 more than where we where at.
Hawks and Pies are enjoying a new coach and more attacking game plan.
Blues finally playing to where their list is at.

 

[Nifft]

Is Dunkley out of contract at the end of this year? If so, any chance we could pry him away from the Bulldogs?

 

[citizen-erased]

You expected not to be 0-3 with the first 3 games all against last years Top-4?

Port the only one of those who looks to have genuinely fallen off a cliff, whilst a Melbourne v Brisbane GF wouldn't surprise me at all.

We were pretty insipid against Geelong, but the last 2 weeks we've basically been what you'd expect - a rebuilding mid-table side not yet good enough to go with a Top-4 side.

That we had enough scoring shots to beat Brisbane was a surprise, and that we managed to stop Melbourne really blowing out the game despite being a class above was a good sign.

i thought we'd be good enough to beat the cats.
we've had their measure at the G. But the 0pts was besides the point. it was the effort.

We're last and below a winless Eagles outfit playing half a WAFL side and a Roos outfit that should be in the VFL and needed said WAFL side to chalk up a win.

We're the only team to give up 300+ points this year
And bottom 4 for scoring.

I'd argue the Dees were off and they needed only a minor flex to keep us at bay. Weideman is a reserve forward and he booted 4.3.
Stengle put 5 past us and hasn't fired a shot since.

i had pretty low expectations for the first 3 weeks
1-2 at best.
needless to say, i've been underwhelmed and my prognosis has gone from a 6-10 to a 12-18 place this year.

 

[Runk]

i thought we'd be good enough to beat the cats.
we've had their measure at the G. But the 0pts was besides the point. it was the effort.

We're last and below a winless Eagles outfit playing half a WAFL side and a Roos outfit that should be in the VFL and needed said WAFL side to chalk up a win.

We're the only team to give up 300+ points this year
And bottom 4 for scoring.

I'd argue the Dees were off and they needed only a minor flex to keep us at bay. Weideman is a reserve forward and he booted 4.3.
Stengle put 5 past us and hasn't fired a shot since.

i had pretty low expectations for the first 3 weeks
1-2 at best.
needless to say, i've been underwhelmed and my prognosis has gone from a 6-10 to a 12-18 place this year.

All of this

 

[eth-dog]

People have set their expectations way too high. Round 1 was bad. Rounds 2 and 3 we've pushed two of the likely top 4 but they outlasted us.

We'll still get our 8-10 wins and finish between 9 and 12 IMO

 

[faible]

i thought we'd be good enough to beat the cats.
we've had their measure at the G. But the 0pts was besides the point. it was the effort.

We're last and below a winless Eagles outfit playing half a WAFL side and a Roos outfit that should be in the VFL and needed said WAFL side to chalk up a win.

We're the only team to give up 300+ points this year
And bottom 4 for scoring.

I'd argue the Dees were off and they needed only a minor flex to keep us at bay. Weideman is a reserve forward and he booted 4.3.
Stengle put 5 past us and hasn't fired a shot since.

i had pretty low expectations for the first 3 weeks
1-2 at best.
needless to say, i've been underwhelmed and my prognosis has gone from a 6-10 to a 12-18 place this year.

meh.

How many mid-table teams have played 3 of last years top-4? (And the remainder in Port is a shitshow right now).

Geelong was insipid, Brisbane and Melbourne were about the result you'd expect from a mid-table side against a genuine top-4 side, and we actually had sufficient scoring shots to snatch the Brisbane game if our accuracy was at a normal level. All whilst having some fairly significant injury outs to work around.

The Eagles have played Gold Coast who are mid-table at best, fielded a WAFL team against an insipid North side, then got most of their team back this week and still got belted by a mid-table side in Freo.

Maybe see how we're sitting mid-season once we've actually played teams more around where we're at before trying to proclaim 'WE'RE BOTTOM 4 FOR THIS THAT AND THE OTHER' as some kind of meaningful stat when we're three weeks in and have likely played 3 of the top-4 sides of 2022.

 

[brain taylor]

it's worth noting that a big part of why our list is in this state is because of our post-saga strategy.
The club was between a rock and a hard place as it was obviously the time to rebuild, but at the same time they couldn't really turn to those players and say "hey guys sorry we did a bit of a whoopsie and derailed your careers, anyway we're offloading you for draft picks now" so they decided to try and chase success with that list, and dodo recruited accordingly.
post 2020 they've (as ant said) drawn a line in the sand and showed a clear shift in intent, from culture to recruitment.
it's frustrating that we've been shit for so long but since they've acknowledged the need for change and committed to a rebuild you can see positive moves being made, we're still gonna be bad for a while but i'm optimistic.

 

[citizen-erased]

People have set their expectations way too high. Round 1 was bad. Rounds 2 and 3 we've pushed two of the likely top 4 but they outlasted us.

We'll still get our 8-10 wins and finish between 9 and 12 IMO

I'd say 8-10 is too high too.

it's not an easy draw to begin with
We have depth being tested and it's not up to the challenge.

i think there's every chance we do another yoyo finish as we have and go from EF to bottom 6 again.

 

[eth-dog]

I'd say 8-10 is too high too.

it's not an easy draw to begin with
We have depth being tested and it's not up to the challenge.

i think there's every chance we do another yoyo finish as we have and go from EF to bottom 6 again.

We're legitimate chances against Adelaide, Fremantle, Collingwood x2, Hawthorne, Richmond x2, Port x2, Carlton, St. Kilda, West Coast, Gold Coast and North. You think we're going to lose at least half of those?

We have depth being tested by two legitimate contenders, and were within 2 or 3 goals with 10 minutes left against both.

As I said earlier, people put their expectations way too high after being top 8 last year with 11 wins, only one of which was against a top 8 opponent and have moved to hysterics because we're 0-3.

The sky isn't falling based off a disappointing effort against Geelong and two competitive losses against the probable top 2 so far this year.