Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[yodellinhank]

So you expect us to rebuild in 1 year then ?
Yes. We have made 18 years of dumb decisions. I am not sure what you want the club to do.
These are the facts. 80% of the board has been changed in the last 4 years.
Coaching panel has been totally changed in the last 3 years including development coaches.
Players where finally let go after years of pissing in their pocket for them to stay.
Football manager changed less than 2 years ago.
Recruiting system restructured. Dodoro may well still be here when he should not be but the fact is he has not got total control anymore. The bloke who set up Melbourne's program is.
Coach in only his second year with a different plan to previously.
I know all this means little now as you can not measure results either way but there was a clear line in the sand drawn after 2020. What happens next has nothing to do with what we did in the past as there are no longer the same people in control who made the decisions made in the past. It may well not work but changes have been made. Further changes will need to be made as we go along.
Exactly what do you want. Sack everyone including players and have a 100% start with a totally new group ?
Come on. You are big on the complaints so give us the actual solutions.

Tell me they've done something to address the catering and HACCP plans since the club came down with food poisoning in 2018 and I'm all ears...

 

[ant555]

Tell me they've done something to address the catering and HACCP plans since the club came down with food poisoning in 2018 and I'm all ears...

No answers as usual.

 

[YoboD]

I think we'll be very lucky if we can get a core group out of the last 2 drafts, if that's the way you want to look at it. We basically opted out of last year's draft. And the picks we did take opted for flankers who are currently behind the flankers we already have on the list.

How do you mean we opted out of last years draft? Between the main, rookie, and SPP drafts we added six players. It’s not like earlier drafts where we traded multiple first round picks. The only pick we traded was our second for a highly rated kid with elite potential in Caldwell.

I agree that we need to draft some more midfielders still, especially some bigger ones that add a point of difference to our current mix, but we’re only in year 2 of the rebuild. We’re probably gonna have some good picks to get them with this year anyway.

 

[yodellinhank]

Why are we looking to get a core group of of 2 drafts ? The reality is you build the core group from 4 or 5 drafts.
The flankers currently on the list may not be there in two years . In fact a few may not be there in 1 year and Cutler was playing more wing on Saturday but even he is on a 1 year deal. There is every chance 3 flankers will gone gone at the end of this year.

I don't know, it was that time period you kept referring to. 66% would be good going, but looking over the past 4 or 5 drafts is pretty grim.

 

[yodellinhank]

No answers as usual.

If I thought I had all the answers I'd be sitting on the other side of the perspex. Saying things were crook in hindsight is easy, I'm just voicing my concerns now.

 

[BrunoV]

I'm amazed people still keep calling "chicken littles" out when it's clear the sky fell ages ago and the club is stuffed, even the clubs that already went past us have fallen and gone past us again.

Not a 'like' because it's disturbing but I've been thinking this too.

In the time Hawthorn and Geelong were supposed to have completely imploded the Cats are still pushing top 4 and the Hawks are essentially in the same position we are. Freo is sort of there too.

Adelaide and West Coast will do their yo-yo thing where they're only ever 5 years from a prelim/gf. Port is Similar.

What are you counting on with Essendon, continually being behind the times?

You look at the latest reset or build or whatever it is and it's the same old story, isn't it?

Have a look at how many mids Geelong and Fremantle have drafted since 2016 when we re...for the second last time. Look at the pick invested.

GWS continually takes mids with high picks. My impression of Sydney is that they've done the same with the majority of their high picks since 2016.

What do you want the club to do, something different would be nice.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Not a 'like' because it's disturbing but I've been thinking this too.

In the time Hawthorn and Geelong were supposed to have completely imploded the Cats are still pushing top 4 and the Hawks are essentially in the same position we are. Freo is sort of there too.

Adelaide and West Coast will do their yo-yo thing where they're only ever 5 years from a prelim/gf. Port is Similar.

What are you counting on with Essendon, continually being behind the times?

You look at the latest reset or build or whatever it is and it's the same old story, isn't it?

Have a look at how many mids Geelong and Fremantle have drafted since 2016 when we re...for the second last time. Look at the pick invested.

GWS continually takes mids with high picks. My impression of Sydney is that they've done the same with the majority of their high picks since 2016.

What do you want the club to do, something different would be nice.

Without wanting to derail the thread in making it about Essendon, gotta say you'e being a bit harsh I reckon. It's been plain to see from everyone that we've resetted since last year. New kids, new plan, retirements. There is still a lot to go, with Reid and Hobbs yet to get a decent run at it with noteable outs. Played 3 of the top 4 teams of last year, two of them still undefeated so far. I think since we made finals last season a lot of people jumped the gun and expected us to be miles ahead of schedule but realistically we were a year into a 5 year rebuild and you'd be hard pressed to find many people, including oppo supporters, who haven't felt that we've embarked on something different this time. Will it all work out? We don't know, but this time it feels like we're better equipped in rolling the dice than in the last 20 years.

 

[katana]

Without wanting to derail the thread in making it about Essendon, gotta say you'e being a bit harsh I reckon. It's been plain to see from everyone that we've resetted since last year. New kids, new plan, retirements. There is still a lot to go, with Reid and Hobbs yet to get a decent run at it with noteable outs. Played 3 of the top 4 teams of last year, two of them still undefeated so far. I think since we made finals last season a lot of people jumped the gun and expected us to be miles ahead of schedule but realistically we were a year into a 5 year rebuild and you'd be hard pressed to find many people, including oppo supporters, who haven't felt that we've embarked on something different this time. Will it all work out? We don't know, but this time it feels like we're better equipped in rolling the dice than in the last 20 years.

you're missing the point. it's the type of player that's drafted and the consistency at which they're drafted by clubs that do well.

 

[JayJ20]

Not a 'like' because it's disturbing but I've been thinking this too.

In the time Hawthorn and Geelong were supposed to have completely imploded the Cats are still pushing top 4 and the Hawks are essentially in the same position we are. Freo is sort of there too.

Adelaide and West Coast will do their yo-yo thing where they're only ever 5 years from a prelim/gf. Port is Similar.

What are you counting on with Essendon, continually being behind the times?

You look at the latest reset or build or whatever it is and it's the same old story, isn't it?

Have a look at how many mids Geelong and Fremantle have drafted since 2016 when we re...for the second last time. Look at the pick invested.

GWS continually takes mids with high picks. My impression of Sydney is that they've done the same with the majority of their high picks since 2016.

What do you want the club to do, something different would be nice.

I laugh at a club like Fremantle having developing mids in O'Driscoll (188cm), Erasmus (190cm) and Johnson (192cm) as depth on top of trading in Brodie (190cm, 88kg) while we only have Hobbs (183cm) in the seconds. If Hobbs plays AFL next week then there's literally nothing else. If it hasn't already happened, Fremantle will also pass us.

Carlton's rise for example is no surprise given their trade period. There's not a top 15 club in the league that needed George Hewett more than Essendon especially with the ample amount of cap space we have and he didn't even cost a draft pick. They've got Cripps (195cm, 93kg), Matthew Kennedy (190cm, 90kg), George Hewett (187cm, 85kg), Adam Cerra, 187cm, 86kg and Sam Walsh (184cm, 84kg).
How is an injury prone forward in Stringer the only one that is bigger than Carlton's smallest first rotation mid?

If Dunkley is still thinking about leaving dogs, then offer him a starting midfield spot and a decent pay rise. That way, next year's centre bounce should look like: Dunkley, Parish, Perkins, Caldwell, Shiel and maybe the occasional Stringer. No Merrett or McGrath in there. Hobbs then eventually replaces Shiel/Stringer. Let's see what the long term plan for our midfield will be.

 

[Mercurial89]

Not a 'like' because it's disturbing but I've been thinking this too.

In the time Hawthorn and Geelong were supposed to have completely imploded the Cats are still pushing top 4 and the Hawks are essentially in the same position we are. Freo is sort of there too.

Adelaide and West Coast will do their yo-yo thing where they're only ever 5 years from a prelim/gf. Port is Similar.

What are you counting on with Essendon, continually being behind the times?

You look at the latest reset or build or whatever it is and it's the same old story, isn't it?

Have a look at how many mids Geelong and Fremantle have drafted since 2016 when we re...for the second last time. Look at the pick invested.

GWS continually takes mids with high picks. My impression of Sydney is that they've done the same with the majority of their high picks since 2016.

What do you want the club to do, something different would be nice.

Think you are looking at it wrong. Hawks and Geelong are coming off a period of success, any reset they do will always be quicker.
We are coming off a base of failure which is a good comparison to Carlton until you throw in a saga that destroyed our last challenger list build and then realise we were always behind them from the quality on the list, no matter whether they fulfilled their potential or not.

We haven't even got the list in place to see any potential. Cobbled together backline, one type midfield and a forwardline bereft of any solid target to build around.
We are awhile off and the sooner people accept that the easier things would be. People can stomp and cry that we aren't further ahead and bemoan the sins of the past, but that's where we are. If you don't see there is any hope because this build will fail too, that's cool, but it's not a great way to enjoy the game I would have thought? Not sure why anyone would continue to willingly subject themselves to it if it pissed them off so much. Unless they hope for a failure to point and say I told you so, which I guess is a thing.

 

[boncer34]

Think you are looking at it wrong. Hawks and Geelong are coming off a period of success, any reset they do will always be quicker.
We are coming off a base of failure which is a good comparison to Carlton until you throw in a saga that destroyed our last challenger list build and then realise we were always behind them from the quality on the list, no matter whether they fulfilled their potential or not.

We haven't even got the list in place to see any potential. Cobbled together backline, one type midfield and a forwardline bereft of any solid target to build around.
We are awhile off and the sooner people accept that the easier things would be. People can stomp and cry that we aren't further ahead and bemoan the sins of the past, but that's where we are. If you don't see there is any hope because this build will fail too, that's cool, but it's not a great way to enjoy the game I would have thought? Not sure why anyone would continue to willingly subject themselves to it if it pissed them off so much. Unless they hope for a failure to point and say I told you so, which I guess is a thing.

When do we stop referring to this?

A year is a long time in football let alone 5.

 

[Mercurial89]

When do we stop referring to this?

A year is a long time in football let alone 5.

I'd argue our last challenger list was that group, that period knocked 2-3 years out of that group.
Then poor decisions and general club ineptitude meant that was a weight we carried until the proper reset of say 2 years ago?
Throw in covid so youngsters we did pick and vfl are coming off a low base development wise.

Taking all that into account I don't think it's that surprising the club is where we are at? I'm not saying that if say cats copped the saga that they would still be paying for it now. They are a good club they would probably be fine, but we were a poorly run shit club (hence why it happened) and we took longer to sweep a broom through the joint since then.

I don't think this group/build is shit because of the saga it's simply only just started in the last 2 seasons properly.
Agree? Disagree?

 

[ant555]

If I thought I had all the answers I'd be sitting on the other side of the perspex. Saying things were crook in hindsight is easy, I'm just voicing my concerns now.

So basically you are calling it as a fail 14 months in.

 

[ant555]

I don't know, it was that time period you kept referring to. 66% would be good going, but looking over the past 4 or 5 drafts is pretty grim.

I never said 2 years. Have been solid on nailing 2 or 3 drafts in a 4 or 5 year period.

 

[boncer34]

So basically you are calling it as a fail 14 months in.

I'm curious why it's a hard and fast line of start of last year.

Start of Ruttens reign?

 

[boncer34]

I'd argue our last challenger list was that group, that period knocked 2-3 years out of that group.
Then poor decisions and general club ineptitude meant that was a weight we carried until the proper reset of say 2 years ago?
Throw in covid so youngsters we did pick and vfl are coming off a low base development wise.

Taking all that into account I don't think it's that surprising the club is where we are at? I'm not saying that if say cats copped the saga that they would still be paying for it now. They are a good club they would probably be fine, but we were a poorly run shit club (hence why it happened) and we took longer to sweep a broom through the joint since then.

I don't think this group/build is shit because of the saga it's simply only just started in the last 2 seasons properly.
Agree? Disagree?

I don't think the group is shit, we've performed exactly to where I thought we would this season.

I'm just sympathetic, to a degree, for those who aren't happy with how we're going. We're into our 5th season since we had the players were banned and COVID impacted all clubs equally. (West Coast would argue that point)

I'm quietly optimistic we're going the right way but decisions like giving Smith 2 years (I defended this at the time but I got it wrong), recruiting a 25 year old who seemingly isn't a ready made player and ignoring holes like experienced KPP depth are very valid concerns. And all have happened in the last 2 years.

 

[sameolds33]

When do we stop referring to this?

A year is a long time in football let alone 5.

More accurately, it's the sanctions imposed by the saga that have delayed our development. The financial penalties (the money to go out and get the best players, coaches, etc) and the loss of draft picks. Other teams that were, at that time of our window of success, less successful - Carlton and Melbourne for example - have been able to build their teams since the saga without the loss of players, draft picks, coaches etc and future personnel that resulted from the saga and the consequential developmental set back that we're still in.

We lost our window of success to the saga and then started again from a lower base due to the sanctions. It's a long way back.

 

[boncer34]

More accurately, it's the sanctions imposed by the saga that have delayed our development. The financial penalties (the money to go out and get the best players, coaches, etc) and the loss of draft picks. Other teams that were, at that time of our window of success, less successful - Carlton and Melbourne for example - have been able to build their teams since the saga without the loss of players, draft picks, coaches etc and future personnel that resulted from the saga and the consequential developmental set back that we're still in.

We lost our window of success to the saga and then started again from a lower base due to the sanctions. It's a long way back.

Yeah no. You can argue draft pick sanctions hurt, arguably we got much higher picks than we should've in 2016 if there had been no suspensions, but financial sanctions?

Come on. We're not North.

 

[sameolds33]

I don't think the group is shit, we've performed exactly to where I thought we would this season.

I'm just sympathetic, to a degree, for those who aren't happy with how we're going. We're into our 5th season since we had the players were banned and COVID impacted all clubs equally. (West Coast would argue that point)

I'm quietly optimistic we're going the right way but decisions like giving Smith 2 years (I defended this at the time but I got it wrong), recruiting a 25 year old who seemingly isn't a ready made player and ignoring holes like experienced KPP depth are very valid concerns. And all have happened in the last 2 years.

So we're in furious agreement then, it seems. Essentially optimistic but, with the benefit of hindsight, mistakes are still being made (not tagging Neale, offering Smith 2 years). Mistakes happen. Doesn't mean we are not on the right track.

 

[sameolds33]

Yeah no. You can argue draft pick sanctions hurt, arguably we got much higher picks than we should've in 2016 if there had been no suspensions, but financial sanctions?

Come on. We're not North.

I'm not arguing that sanctions and financial penalties hurt - they obviously did. I'm saying that we started from a lower base, later than other clubs who were rebuilding (Carlton, Melbourne) when sanctions were imposed. so, you'd expect those clubs to be ahead of us now.

 

[citizen-erased]

Our issue is depth.
this is something that when tested, Carlton struggled with. As did the Hawks.

Curnow out & Cripps hobbled = lowly Carlton. They now have McKay and Curnow firing and an impressive midfield unit of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy, and can allow Setterfield, Fisher and whoever to be role players.

Hawks have a fit Titch, Siciliy and Day back in their side. They were leaky without them firing last year.

Test the depth of the current "bolters" and see where they are. And i reckon we're back in the mix with that pack...which is a ways off the top 6 imo
Dees were missing 5/6 of their premiership backline in the GF re-match and blew the dogs away.

We're tested when a mid goes out (Hobbs is all we have to call on)
If Wright goes down **** knows what we do for a FF.
Exposed by Reid and Jones' recent injury run.
As well as Tippa & Snellings.

Hogan, Aliir, Hewett, Brander, Lipinski, Brodie -> all cheap mature talent other clubs have targeted and we've ignored doing the same.
For whatever the reason this is our mantra now. Perhaps it's an over-correction to the Shiel deal.
but i reckon it's where some of the rebuilders are doing their best work.

 

[boncer34]

So we're in furious agreement then, it seems. Essentially optimistic but, with the benefit of hindsight, mistakes are still being made (not tagging Neale, offering Smith 2 years). Mistakes happen. Doesn't mean we are not on the right track.

Also doesn't mean we are.

 

[sameolds33]

Also doesn't mean we are.

But it does mean that we are where most of us expected to be given the draw.

 

[boncer34]

But it does mean that we are where most of us expected to be given the draw.

Ok.

 

[faible]

Ok.

You expected not to be 0-3 with the first 3 games all against last years Top-4?

Port the only one of those who looks to have genuinely fallen off a cliff, whilst a Melbourne v Brisbane GF wouldn't surprise me at all.

We were pretty insipid against Geelong, but the last 2 weeks we've basically been what you'd expect - a rebuilding mid-table side not yet good enough to go with a Top-4 side.

That we had enough scoring shots to beat Brisbane was a surprise, and that we managed to stop Melbourne really blowing out the game despite being a class above was a good sign.