Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[MarkG]

Would like to see Bennell at Bombers as rover. Daniher CHF (like his uncle). Hooker FF. Hurley FB. Watson C. Would try McKernan CHB or Hibberd. TBC ruck.

 

[CBombers17]

I agree with you that these selections are certainly promising and at least at this stage I am happy with them.

My only concern is that I remember almost a decade ago, we were all on here saying the exact same thing about Gumby, Hislop, Reimers, Jetta, Pears, et. al. I'm not saying that Laverde is going to end up like them, but it is probably too early to make a call either way on those drafts.

Agreed it is probably too late to do anything this year. I still would rework the recruiting staff irrespective of what happens over the summer - as you won't really be able to judge it accurately until about 3-4 years from now anyway.

Except for (arguably) Pears, none.of Gumby, Hislop, Hooker, Jetta, Davey, Reimers showed what Laverde, Langford, Zerret and Hepps showed from day 1 Imo.

Throw on late round gems like Pig, Gleeson, bags and others and id say its been a steady incline in draft form.

Wierd its taken losing top end talls for average picks only to then start nailing midfielders which we havent done well with our higher picks for years.

 

[Old Campaigner]

What else do we need from the draft bar a ruck?

Inside/outside midfider?
KPP depth? (X2)
Small forward?
Versatile utility?

I think, in drafting order:
1) a fast midfielder
2) Medium Forward (seems to be the way forward lines are heading these days)
3) another fast midfielder
4) development ruck
5) development KPP

That is assuming 2 first round picks, a second round pick and a handful of later picks.

I don't think the style of midfielder matters much as long as they can burn players off.
I think we're right for small forwards with Fantasia and Jackson Merrett on the list.
I guess a medium forward could play the utility role.

 

[BrunoV]

Question that I want to put out there.

Are Dodoro/Keane et al. the best people to have in the job and should/are we looking for a replacement(s)?

To be quite honest, I'm not sure I understand why people on here think Dodoro and co are meeting expectations. To me (admittedly I am a complete outsider with no inside knowledge whatsoever) he's been there for almost 20 years and our drafting/list management has been pretty appalling during that entire time.

People often refer to the Sheedy selections that killed us during the early 2000s, such as Zantuck, Avey, Murphey, M Michael, etc. But to me, these are a relatively small cost compared to the missed selections at the draft over the last 15-20 years. Even just going back to 2006 we have had Gumbleton, Hislop, Jetta, Pears, D Daniher, Melksham, Steinberg and Kavanagh as relatively early failed selections. Others are passes but still just average (Myers and Zaharakis). Our good picks such as Heppel and Z. Merret appear to be the exception rather than the norm.

Yes, it's not realistic to expect every early pick to make it, but a slightly higher hit rate isn't an unreasonable expectation considering how bad our team has been over the last decade, and some of the quality that has been selected after us by teams that have experienced success over that time.

I don't want this to be a bashing Dodoro post, as I fully accept he is doing the best he can with the team he has and with the resources they have. But is it time for new blood, like Carlton did with Silvagni?

Are the current group up to it? My view is that they are not.

Dodoro will prove his worth as a list manager this trade period in which he will be heavily relied upon due to a new coaching panel.

My gut reaction has always been that he has been interfered with in performing his role and I've been reluctant to criticise when my suspicion is that Hird and the board have operated to overrule pure list management decisions.

Lot of water to pass under the bridge yet but I could hardly be less impressed with the decisions to this point in time. Re-signing Bellchambers and continuing to try to woo Luenberger and Zac Smith and putting a contract in front of Dempsey.

Not putting 2 years in front of Stanton but offering it to Melksham.

Not impressed with what is happening at all.

 

[eth-dog]

Expecting we no longer have Fletcher, Chapman, Winderlich, Aylett, Dalgleish, Carlisle, Melksham, Pears, Steinberg, Hams on the list. McKernan promoted.

Defence

Tall/Medium defenders:

Cale Hooker, Michael Hurley, James Gwilt.

Good top end, needs depth. Expecting to draft/DFA a young key defender (like Giles) and draft someone Michael Hartley from the VFL.

Small defenders:

Mark Baguley, Martin Gleeson, Michael Hibberd, Jason Ashby, Alex Browne, Brent Stanton

Baguley, Gleeson, Stanton and Hibberd are a solid starting 4 rotating through there, Ashby and Browne will be good players also. May need another HB.

A good starting point, but 2 key defenders and another small defender may be on the radar if Browne and Gleeson move up the field.

Midfield

Inside midfielders:

Jobe Watson, Zachary Merrett, Nick O'Brien, Dyson Heppell, David Myers, Elliott Kavanagh, Heath Hocking, Ben Howlett.

Very slow outside of Merrett, needs a lot more speed running through there as well as depth ahead of O'Brien, Kav and Howlett.

Outside midfielders:

Brendan Goddard, David Zaharakis, Jackson Merrett, Travis Colyer, Orazio Fantasia, Adam Cooney.

A lot of experience and good pace among this group, but again needs a little more depth with the closest thing to an outstanding endurance being Jackson Merrett.

Needs a bit more pace in the inside group and a bit more endurance in the outside group but can be fixed later than the other issues on the list.

Forwards

Small Forwards:

Nick Kommer, Shaun Edwards, Jayden Laverde, Kyle Langford. Rookies: Conor McKenna, Jake Long

Very promising group. Edwards, Laverde and Langford could form a scary combination inside 50 in the future as mobile 190 cm forwards.

Key Forwards:

Patrick Ambrose, Joe Daniher

Very weak area, Ambrose has had a poor year and Daniher can't do it all himself, although Hooker could be thrown forward. Needs at least a young KPF and a mature stop gap right now, possibly Mitch Brown from Sandringham.

Needs a lot of work in the key forward stakes, but has a lot of promise in and around this group.

Rucks

Ruck/forwards

Tom Bellchambers, Jonathon Giles

Both had disappointing years but can get back to their best form later in the year.

Forward/rucks

Shaun McKernan

Had an excellent year, finishing 10th in the BnF from 9 games. Will be good to see how well he plays next year.

Need a young, developing ruck but otherwise I think we have a good group here.

Overall, what I'd be looking at including is:

2x KPD: One mature (Hartley), one young (Cameron Giles)
2x KPF: One mature (Brown), one young (Charlie Curnow)
1x Ruck: Young, developing (Gach Nyuon)
1x HB: Young-ish (Anthony Tipungwuti)
2x IM: One mature (Dan Coghlan), one young (Kieran Lovell)
2x OM: Two young (not sure, Jack Package would know better)

 

[PressureCooker]

Awesome write-up eth-dog Can't argue with too much you've said there. Looking at the age profiles of each of those positions, we haven't got much key position or midfield youth coming through

 

[Zach Package]

SNIP

Well, Parish early. Brayden Fiorini, Jock Cornell, Aidyn Johnson, Reuben William, Tyrone Leonardis, Yestin Eades through the middle/back end.

FWIW the average number of key position players on an AFL list is about 13, we've got 7

 

[eth-dog]

Well, Parish early. Brayden Fiorini, Jock Cornell, Aidyn Johnson, Reuben William, Tyrone Leonardis, Yestin Eades through the middle/back end.

FWIW the average number of key position players on an AFL list is about 13, we've got 7

So theoretically we get Giles as a DFA and pick 5 and 25 for Carlisle respectively. Would you object to:

4: Curnow
5: Parish
23: Lovell
25: Brown (early, I know)
41: Hartley
59: Coghlan

RD 4: ruck (Nyuon)
22: Tipungwuti
40: Tom Wallis (I knew I forgot someone)

 

[Zach Package]

So theoretically we get Giles as a DFA and pick 5 and 25 for Carlisle respectively. Would you object to:

4: Curnow
5: Parish
23: Lovell
25: Brown (early, I know)
41: Hartley
59: Coghlan

RD 4: ruck (Nyuon)
22: Tipungwuti
40: Tom Wallis (I knew I forgot someone)

Given we picked Merrett at 26, yes I would object to picking a mature ager at 25, but apart from that it seems about right on a needs basis, even though 4 mature agers in the one draft is probably excessive.

 

[eth-dog]

Given we picked Merrett at 26, yes I would object to picking a mature ager at 25, but apart from that it seems about right on a needs basis, even though 4 mature agers in the one draft is probably excessive.

We could probably reach for Nyuon at 25 and push everyone else back 1.

 

[Zach Package]

We could probably reach for Nyuon at 25 and push everyone else back 1.

Obviously you can preference bigs if you need them but always best available in the first 2 rounds imo, 3rd round onwards is when you start to fiddle around with needs picks and older guys

 

[eth-dog]

Obviously you can preference bigs if you need them but always best available in the first 2 rounds imo, 3rd round onwards is when you start to fiddle around with needs picks and older guys

Yeah, fair enough. Is Nyuon the clear cut best ruck in this draft?

 

[MightyDons4]

We could probably reach for Nyuon at 25 and push everyone else back 1.

Dear lord

 

[eth-dog]

Dear lord

I think a young ruckman is too important to overlook for Essendon right now. Unless we go with a young HB at 25 and go with a ruckman in the RD.

 

[Zach Package]

Yeah, fair enough. Is Nyuon the clear cut best ruck in this draft?

Given the only reason I have him top of the pile is that he's a jumper and the game favours jumpers, then it's probably not clear cut is it?

 

[eth-dog]

Given the only reason I have him top of the pile is that he's a jumper and the game favours jumpers, then it's probably not clear cut is it?

Not really.

 

[MightyDons4]

I think a young ruckman is too important to overlook for Essendon right now. Unless we go with a young HB at 25 and go with a ruckman in the RD.

I agree, but taking a rookie draft prospect at 25 is Boekhorst-ish. Next year is much better for ruck men and we should try and hold out until then.

 

[eth-dog]

I agree, but taking a rookie draft prospect at 25 is Boekhorst-ish. Next year is much better for ruck men and we should try and hold out until then.

Fair enough. Still think my mix of list balance is right however, just where we take everyone.

 

[MightyDons4]

Fair enough. Still think my mix of list balance is right however, just where we take everyone.

If anything I'd be going for more KPP's. We have the worst stocks depth wise in the AFL by far so if we could add 3 KPF's (Shaw, Brown & Dawson) and 3 KPD's (Francis, Giles & Ferry) then it would at least give us some depth and flexibility.

 

[Old Campaigner]

If anything I'd be going for more KPP's. We have the worst stocks depth wise in the AFL by far so if we could add 3 KPF's (Shaw, Brown & Dawson) and 3 KPD's (Francis, Giles & Ferry) then it would at least give us some depth and flexibility.

Do we want to bring them all in at the same time? I wonder if we might be better to spread out our intake of KPPs so all our depth isn't hitting it's peak all at the same time.

 

[eth-dog]

If anything I'd be going for more KPP's. We have the worst stocks depth wise in the AFL by far so if we could add 3 KPF's (Shaw, Brown & Dawson) and 3 KPD's (Francis, Giles & Ferry) then it would at least give us some depth and flexibility.

In terms of KPP's I think the best balance is:

4x KPD/3rd tall
3x KPF
4x ruck
2x swingmen

If we go with the above delistings we have:

2x KPD/3rd tall (Hurley, Gwilt)
1x KPF (Daniher)
3x ruck (Bellchambers, Giles, McKernan)
1x swingman (Hooker)

So I'd go:

2x KPD (Giles, Hartley)
2x KPF (Curnow, ???)
1x ruck (someone young)
1x swingman (Brown)

 

[MightyDons4]

Do we want to bring them all in at the same time? I wonder if we might be better to spread out our intake of KPPs so all our depth isn't hitting it's peak all at the same time.

I don't think we have the luxury of doing that. We have 3 AFL standard KPP's. 4 if you count Mckernan as a forward.

 

[eth-dog]

Do we want to bring them all in at the same time? I wonder if we might be better to spread out our intake of KPPs so all our depth isn't hitting it's peak all at the same time.

If you take the right players it won't happen that way. From my example before, you get two 18 y/o's (in 2 different positions), a 20 y/o, a 22 y/o and a 24 y/o.

 

[MightyDons4]

In terms of KPP's I think the best balance is:

4x KPD/3rd tall
3x KPF
4x ruck
2x swingmen

If we go with the above delistings we have:

2x KPD/3rd tall (Hurley, Gwilt)
1x KPF (Daniher)
3x ruck (Bellchambers, Giles, McKernan)
1x swingman (Hooker)

So I'd go:

2x KPD (Giles, Hartley)
2x KPF (Curnow, ???)
1x ruck (someone young)
1x swingman (Brown)

Given the ruckmen (or lack of) available this year I would probably just take an extra KPP.

2 x KPD (Giles, Ferry)
2 x KPF (Shaw, *Dawson)
2 x SM (Francis, Brown)

Although having quality KPP stocks is important, we also need to address our major issue in midfield speed. Tucker (pick 11 for Carlisle from Doggies), Partington (2nd round pick) and Hall (pick 25 for Melksham from Melbourne on-traded to Gold Coast) would probably solve this problem.

*Dawson measured in at 190cm at the start of the year but I think he's grown to 192/193.

 

[eth-dog]

Given the ruckmen (or lack of) available this year I would probably just take an extra KPP.

2 x KPD (Giles, Ferry)
2 x KPF (Shaw, *Dawson)
2 x SM (Francis, Brown)

Although having quality KPP stocks is important, we also need to address our major issue in midfield speed. Tucker (pick 11 for Carlisle from Doggies), Partington (2nd round pick) and Hall (pick 25 for Melksham from Melbourne on-traded to Gold Coast) would probably solve this problem.

*Dawson measured in at 190cm at the start of the year but I think he's grown to 192/193.

Eh, each to their own. Our midfield has young, quick players like Merrett(s), Colyer, Fantasia, but we do need an explosive inside mid I agree.