Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[Maggie5]

Question - if I put TG on ignore, will the size of this thread drop from 248 pages to like half?

No such luck, the list of seers and experts is growing.

 

[Pie eyed]

Can't recall many Top 10 picks walking out of clubs once they come out of contract.

Boyd the only one recently.

Freeman is a big blow for Buckley & Hine. If you bring good characters in, that is Hine's job, and you build a culture where players buy into and are prepared to take unders, your football club is well run.

How many had an injury record like Freeman?

 

[PieBeast]

Is it possible that we have given them chances and they have not shown they will ever be A grade rather than they want to go due to Bucks, the management, the footy dept etc etc

Of course it's possible still doesn't change what TG and me are saying.

I've never stated they're leaving due to Bucks, just our inability to nurture their talent and retain them.

 

[PieBeast]

You're a stranger creature than I thought. You don't seem to appreciate that facts have rhymes and reasons of their own, which should be dealt with in isolation until a reason to deal with them collectively makes itself known. But of course, to actually analyse each case on its merits would deprive you of a conspiracy theory, and that just won't do.

* PK--Not up to it. Left the AFL system because he was wise enough to realise his limitations.
* Freeman--Not likely to get a game in a strengthening midfield.
* Seed--Has had limited opportunities because he has shown himself to be a limited player.
* BK--Don't know what his plans are, but if he wants to leave then he would fall into the Freeman category (i.e. no obvious spot).

But none of these pieces of evidence accord with the strange fantasy land you've constructed. You seem oblivious to the vagaries of list management and player movement, or at least you ignore the facts to suit your story.

With a bit of desire and a slight mental capacity we can rationalise anything that happens in the world.
Doesn't mean our thoughts aren't simply the opinions that suit ourselves and that's what your blah blah blah reasons for their departures are.

But the fact I'm not interested in this and simply pointing to reality of the continuous massive list turnover under the current regime seems to escape you.

oh well...

 

[JB1975]

Of course it's possible still doesn't change what TG and me are saying.

I've never stated they're leaving due to Bucks, just our inability to nurture their talent and retain them.

This is TG's original post, the one you're apparently in agreement with:

'All im seeing with Buckley now is history repeating itself. He couldn't keep Malthouses team together. (Fair enough) BUT now he can't even keep his team together. 4 years on I have less confidence in him than ever'

And yet you're not blaming Buckley? There's a contradiction here, care to clarify for our amusement?

 

[PieBeast]

This is TG's original post, the one you're apparently in agreement with:

'All im seeing with Buckley now is history repeating itself. He couldn't keep Malthouses team together. (Fair enough) BUT now he can't even keep his team together. 4 years on I have less confidence in him than ever'

And yet you're not blaming Buckley? There's a contradiction here, care to clarify for our amusement?

Yeah he said it happened under Bucks not sure that means directly attributing the blame or simply pointing to the time frame of the events.
That's how I've interpreted his post anyway.

 

[JB1975]

With a bit of desire and a slight mental capacity we can rationalise anything that happens in the world.
Doesn't mean our thoughts aren't simply the opinions that suit ourselves and that's what your blah blah blah reasons for their departures are.

But the fact I'm not interested in this and simply pointing to reality of the continuous massive list turnover under the current regime seems to escape you.

oh well...

I like to use evidence, as often as possible. It stops me from believing in good stuff like an afterlife, but on the flipside it spares me many demons as well. You choose to believe in demons. You seek them out and do your modest best to convince other people that your demons are real.

Try and use some evidence. Try and actually produce some evidence which suggests that the current turnover of players is due to a systemic problem at the club. Go on, give it a shot, and you could start by actually addressing the points I made about Freeman, PK, Seedsman, and BK.

 

[jmac70]

I agree with Goldsack.

 

[JB1975]

Yeah he said it happened under Bucks not sure that means directly attributing the blame or simply pointing to the time frame of the events.
That's how I've interpreted his post anyway.

I actually laughed out loud. Not sure that many people genuinely laugh out loud when they say they 'lol', but your limp response really gave me a chuckle.

 

[PieBeast]

I like to use evidence, as often as possible. It stops me from believing in good stuff like an afterlife, but on the flipside it spares me many demons as well. You choose to believe in demons. You seek them out and do your modest best to convince other people that your demons are real.

Try and use some evidence. Try and actually produce some evidence which suggests that the current turnover of players is due to a systemic problem at the club. Go on, give it a shot, and you could start by actually addressing the points I made about Freeman, PK, Seedsman, and BK.

Kennedy never got a decent crack at it when he could and should have been nurtured as Blair's replacement long time ago.

Seeds has show great signs on more than one occasion but regressed at the speed of knots in the second half of the year, loved the Club to bits too.

PK's long time dream to play for his beloved club went very awry when he lost all the enthusiasm on the back of clearly not being provided an opportunity, even when we were no chance of making the finals and he tore it up in the magoos.

Freeman was well within his rights to be cut by our offensive offer that wasn't even 250K compared to Scharenberg's 400K deal. And that's taking into account both players spent close to 2 years on the sidelines and Schaz had 4 rather lackluster senior games to his name while blind freddy can see we need Freeman's pace.

I'm off to do some cables but just cause you wanted to be amused I'll leave you with a couple of tunes that describe our view on the status quo of our Club

me


you

 

[jmac70]

Kennedy never got a decent crack at it when he could and should have been nurtured as Blair's replacement long time ago.

Seeds has show great signs on more than one occasion but regressed at the speed of knots in the second half of the year, loved the Club to bits too.

PK's long time dream to play for his beloved club went very awry when he lost all the enthusiasm on the back of clearly not being provided an opportunity, even when we were no chance of making the finals and he tore it up in the magoos.

Freeman was well within his rights to be cut by our offensive offer that wasn't even 250K compared to Scharenberg's 400K deal. And that's taking into account both players spent close to 2 years on the sidelines and Schaz had 4 rather lackluster senior games to his name while blind freddy can see we need Freeman's pace.

I'm off to do some cables but just cause you wanted to be amused I'll leave you with a couple of tunes that describe our view on the status quo of our Club

me


you

Instead of a cable I hope it looks like this with really sharp edges...

 

[wicksy]

Of course it's possible still doesn't change what TG and me are saying.

I've never stated they're leaving due to Bucks, just our inability to nurture their talent and retain them.

...and all the talent we have retained and we have nurtured?
Who does that kudos go to?

 

[JB1975]

Kennedy never got a decent crack at it when he could and should have been nurtured as Blair's replacement long time ago.

Seeds has show great signs on more than one occasion but regressed at the speed of knots in the second half of the year, loved the Club to bits too.

PK's long time dream to play for his beloved club went very awry when he lost all the enthusiasm on the back of clearly not being provided an opportunity, even when we were no chance of making the finals and he tore it up in the magoos.

Freeman was well within his rights to be cut by our offensive offer that wasn't even 250K compared to Scharenberg's 400K deal. And that's taking into account both players spent close to 2 years on the sidelines and Schaz had 4 rather lackluster senior games to his name while blind freddy can see we need Freeman's pace.

I'm off to do some cables but just cause you wanted to be amused I'll leave you with a couple of tunes that describe our view on the status quo of our Club

I'm more amused by your warped response, but I do appreciate the clips in any case. Of course I have a soft spot for all things Nick Cave. Ta.

Your go-through of player departures (some of which haven't even departed yet) demonstrates only one thing: your overwhelming desire to create a drama where none exists. I'm beginning to think that you should consider an avatar change, maybe ditch the skull and crossbones in favour of a fair maiden hoisting up her skirt at the sight of a mouse.

But at least you actually made a semi-coherent response, so let me reply to it:

BK--Has had a decent crack, but is no doubt still developing. He doesn't look as strong as Blair over the ball, not at AFL level at least. I have a hope that he'll remedy this at our club.

PK--He did perform well at VFL level, but not well enough to take the spot of someone else in the senior side. The fact that he's a Pies supporter doesn't mean a thing: he didn't have the desire to make it at AFL level, so he left the game itself. The argument that he wasn't provided an opportunity it a distortion. He wasn't handed senior footy on a silver platter, so he gave it up. Also, I'm tired of the idea that his VFL form automatically warranted more AFL exposure. Despite an occasional spike in his tackle count, he remained a defensively deficient player.

Seedsman--If you're arguing that Seedsman was deserving of more senior footy, you're wrong. Unlike PK and BK, he can't even claim to have been consistent at VFL level. For an uncontested footballer he has had far too much difficulty in (a) finding the ball, and (b) disposing of it effectively. Like PK, the fact that he's a Pies supporter is completely irrelevant. The idea that 'he regressed at a speed of knots in the second half of the year' intrigues me. I saw him play a handful of decent games, the Anzac Day game being the best of it, but the simple fact is that he hasn't been able to back up that form. He's a player with some good attributes, no doubt, and I hope that he develops them elsewhere. This is what happens sometimes, players leave one club and they grow and develop in ways they never expected. We've been the beneficiaries of that, with players like Varcoe and Crisp playing their best football with us, this year.

Freeman--I think that the club handled the Freeman negotiation badly. I don't have a lot to back it up, except the fact that he was initially offered a one-year contract. From that sort of offer, Freeman and Connors would have reasonably concluded that the club didn't value him as a player, and the fact that this is untrue is an indictment on the negotiation process. Having said that, Freeman (a) might well have asked to be traded anyway because of limited opportunities in our midfield, and (b) the negotiations have little to do with Buckley in any case. My point here is to concede that I think the club made some mistakes here, but that these mistakes are not suggestive of systemic failings of our football development.


That's all the 'blah blah blah' I've got in me for now. For some strange reason I feel the need to play some music...

 

[Krueger]

rubbish - he spat the dummy when told his spot in the team was not guarateed with the recuitment of Lynch. Then and only then was he put up for trade at his request.

Refer below. As usual you are WRONG and have No IDEA

He's correct, you're talking when he left, before that he signed for unders, that's a fact.

 

[Krueger]

Nah, Freeman is leaving because he doesn't want to work hard enough for a spot and also $$, for mine really no big loss was never an untouchable.

Maybe if he had a good hard look at the Goldsacks, Blair, Macaffer, no champions but work damn hard to keep their spot, that is what it is all about.

Nobody is when they want out right?. When they stay they are dead set champions.

 

[Krueger]

* PK--Not up to it. Left the AFL system because he was wise enough to realise his limitations.
* Freeman--Not likely to get a game in a strengthening midfield.
* Seed--Has had limited opportunities because he has shown himself to be a limited player.
* BK--Don't know what his plans are, but if he wants to leave then he would fall into the Freeman category (i.e. no obvious spot).

Lol what a lame excuse. Nick Maxwell said he will be a dead set gun injury permitting and will be a big loss.
Just admit he doesnt like the club for whatever reason and move on. BS excuses like that are a waste of space.

 

[JB1975]

Lol what a lame excuse. Nick Maxwell said he will be a dead set gun injury permitting and will be a big loss.
Just admit he doesnt like the club for whatever reason and move on. BS excuses like that are a waste of space.

Oh look, another fair maiden...

I've got no problem accepting that there's a bigger picture to the Freeman situation. He's suggested that he wasn't happy with the club's efforts to rehabilitate him. I personally think that the contract negotiations were a bit bungled, though I have no insight into this. Put that together with the fact that he saw limited opportunities for himself, and it's hardly a surprise he shuffled off to Seaford.

The point which was being made by others was that the case of Freeman, Seed, BK and PK add up to systemic failure by the club. Nup, they don't. But thanks for your solid contribution.

PS: Do ya think that Maxwell was maybe looking to advantage his former club by pumping up Freeman's value? Hmmmm?

 

[Maggie5]

Nobody is when they want out right?. When they stay they are dead set champions.

Talking to yourself again?
No idea what you are on about, stay off the lemons, taste is bitter.

 

[JB1975]

Talking to yourself again?
No idea what you are on about, stay off the lemons, taste is bitter.

A form of hieroglyphics. Good luck deciphering!

 

[JB1975]

Lol what a lame excuse. Nick Maxwell said he will be a dead set gun injury permitting and will be a big loss.
Just admit he doesnt like the club for whatever reason and move on. BS excuses like that are a waste of space.

By the way, did you actually 'lol' at my post? I'm not so sure you did. I suppose it might have been a gruff sort of a laugh, but I'm more picturing a distorted angry face from you, quite possibly with a touch of spittle on your chin.

 

[Mick39]

I didn't like Mick and I'm filthy for how he left the club in 2011 and sabotaged a premiership but we never had successive years were important parts of the rebuild, and players the club tried to keep, walk out. The only player that walked out of note was Nick Davis.

It's hard to get attached to Nathan & the list he is building because every year there is a revolving door out of the club. Nathan was a great and I respect supporters sticking by him, but there comes a time when you need to see onfield results.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Those making arguments for PK while referring to stats need to consider the VFL standard. Regardless of what people would like to believe, the VFL is a fair way off AFL standard.
The coaches go through the vision and highlight areas of improvement needed to cut it at AFL level. If PK and others failed to improve on those areas, they wouldn't be picked.
So he was mistreated at Brisbane, we take him, he gives it away, now it's Collingwood's fault for not giving him go. Two clubs, similar results, both clubs to blame? FFS.
Funny how some blaming the club for Seedsman may have been the same ones bagging him, his ancestors and descendants in the match day threads.
So he loves Collingwood. Loving it as a supporter is not the same as loving it as a workplace. In the workplace, love can be conditional.

 

[Mick39]

Just on Karnezis, there is a well known Cheer Squad member named 'Voula'. She is as loyal as they come, she attends every training session and every game. Loves Eddie and defended Nathan to the hilt.

She is a second cousin of Karnezis. She wrote a Facebook post slamming Buckley for deceiving Karnezis, said Buckley told Karnezis promises about being rewarded for VFL form. Buckley got slammed for lying to Karnezis and she attacked the integrity of him.

I'm not saying she is right. Karnezis was a player I never got a handle on, but to see such a loyal Collingwood person turn on Buckley was surprising. Just an observation.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Just on Karnezis, there is a well known Cheer Squad member named 'Voula'. She is as loyal as they come, she attends every training session and every game. Loves Eddie and defended Nathan to the hilt.

She is a second cousin of Karnezis. She wrote a Facebook post slamming Buckley for deceiving Karnezis, said Buckley told Karnezis promises about being rewarded for VFL form. Buckley got slammed for lying to Karnezis and she attacked the integrity of him.

I'm not saying she is right. Karnezis was a player I never got a handle on, but to see such a loyal Collingwood person turn on Buckley was surprising. Just an observation.

Loyal supporters have turned on Bucks in here as well. A cousin of PK turning on Bucks for supposed lies doesn't surprise nor would I take her Facebook rant as gospel. There's more to form than his stats in the VFL. If he didn't improve certain aspects that we are not privvy to, he doesn't get a game.

 

[JB1975]

Just on Karnezis, there is a well known Cheer Squad member named 'Voula'. She is as loyal as they come, she attends every training session and every game. Loves Eddie and defended Nathan to the hilt.

She is a second cousin of Karnezis. She wrote a Facebook post slamming Buckley for deceiving Karnezis, said Buckley told Karnezis promises about being rewarded for VFL form. Buckley got slammed for lying to Karnezis and she attacked the integrity of him.

I'm not saying she is right. Karnezis was a player I never got a handle on, but to see such a loyal Collingwood person turn on Buckley was surprising. Just an observation.

Mick, thank you for the unadulterated wisdom of Voula. You're an absolute treasure for bringing this to our attention, except that some form of this garbage has been peddled for quite a while now. Funny thing is, it doesn't become any more true the more you say it.

Even though you've taken a rather passive stance in your post, I think we all know where you stand. You're transparent, Mick.