Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[jasonwilde]

Hey all, this is my first post and thought it would be appropriate to make it on the Buckley thread. I think that we need to back the great man and see this through as a whole club rebuild, not a Buckley rebuild. If it fails, we fail. It is important to note that when Buckley took over as coach, player movement also began to free up. The club is trying to move with this in a progressive manner and any club that doesn't will fall behind. Yes, we made some bad calls early on with Russel, Lynch and even Young but we are starting to get it right with players like Varcoe and Greenwood. We need to get behind the club now. If we don't make the top 8 next year Buckley will be out of a job and the Club will be set back. We really need to get behind him and the club and be united or we will all suffer. Let's hope for a good trade period. Treloar will be a massive plus for us and the youth we have already got on board can only get better. It hurts to lose Freeman but we have just signed the greatest school boy talent since Carey so all is not lost. Stick fat and enjoy the ride.

Welcome brother. I like your style, dude.

 

[jasonwilde]

Mick watches footy. Just not Collingwood games.

Well, he's harping on about Hawthorn's rigid structure, so I'm not so sure about that either.

 

[JB1975]

Hey all, this is my first post and thought it would be appropriate to make it on the Buckley thread. I think that we need to back the great man and see this through as a whole club rebuild, not a Buckley rebuild. If it fails, we fail. It is important to note that when Buckley took over as coach, player movement also began to free up. The club is trying to move with this in a progressive manner and any club that doesn't will fall behind. Yes, we made some bad calls early on with Russel, Lynch and even Young but we are starting to get it right with players like Varcoe and Greenwood. We need to get behind the club now. If we don't make the top 8 next year Buckley will be out of a job and the Club will be set back. We really need to get behind him and the club and be united or we will all suffer. Let's hope for a good trade period. Treloar will be a massive plus for us and the youth we have already got on board can only get better. It hurts to lose Freeman but we have just signed the greatest school boy talent since Carey so all is not lost. Stick fat and enjoy the ride.

Welcome BC. I don't think that your optimism is misplaced.

 

[davywap]

What was he recruited for? Hine said he was recruited to play as a forward and then relieve in the ruck. That is the Leigh Brown role.

Are you saying he was recruited as a second KPF when he never played that role at Sydney?

Firstly, I've watched old Sydney games when that's exactly what he played - X
Secondly, Leigh Brown played back, backup-ruck and as a 3rd tall forward and is a much different type of player to White - XX
Thirdly, if Hawthorn's structure was so bloody predictable, don't you think they would've been worked out by now? - XXX

 

[PieBeast]

PB, I do appreciate some of your work this evening. I have more love for the 'Weeping Song' than is appropriate for a man of my staid English origins, and now you've offered what is possibly the first ever attempt at the deconstruction of a TG post. In doing so, you put considerably more thought and intellectual vigour into that effort than TG has been able to muster in 12 months. (No offence TG)

However, as much as you might pick apart the various elements of his post and separate them from the context of the conversation we've been having, the fact is that this context is rather important. The pertinent points are these:

1) TG suggested that the departures (real or prospective) of Freeman, PK, BK and the Seed are the fault of the club, with an emphasis on Buckley.

2) You wholeheartedly and unreservedly agreed with his proposition.

3) JB (me) popped up and said what a load of codswallop.

Believe it or not, PB, I'm not someone who thinks the football club gets it right every time. I suspect some mistakes were made with Freeman, for one thing, but I'm sure that other mistakes have been made and will be made. But I hold to my view that the departure (possible or otherwise) of those four players does not signal a systemic problem at the club, and the signs of late are that we're getting quite a bit right.

Fair enough but I took his post for a statement of facts, not as direct critic of Bucks, even though I understand he might be implying it.

As for us getting a bit right, yes there are certain elements that have improved and I'm on the record saying so, the list will obviously improve with the the acquisition of Treloar on top of the success that Adams has turned out to be. But this is offset by a fair few things that stayed the same, some very questionable players that have been brought into the Club by Bucks, our constant drop on the ladder and some rather unexpected departures, 2 of them being the boys that grew up idolising Bucks but opted out of the life long dream to play and obviously succeed with their beloved Pies.

So while the perception of our direction might be attributed to whether you're glass half full or empty person there are plenty of causes for concern.

 

[Mick39]

Firstly, I've watched old Sydney games when that's exactly what he played - X
Secondly, Leigh Brown played back, backup-ruck and as a 3rd tall forward and is a much different type of player to White - XX
Thirdly, if Hawthorn's structure was so bloody predictable, don't you think they would've been worked out by now? - XXX

I am talking about Leigh Brown in his 2010 role. He played as KPF switching Ruck. Dawes & Cloke played as the two KPF's who were free to roam in forward half without the burden of rucking.

When Brown departed, Buckley tried to play Dawes as a second ruck, KPF & when he played in the ruck to relieve Jolly, Cloke was one out as the KPF. Lynch was recruited to relieve Dawes as he was a terrible p/t ruckman and for some strange reason, he traded Dawes and it went back to the dysfunctional setup of 2012 in 2013.

He was a terrible forward at Sydney and spent a lot of games playing NEAFL. The reason why he was recruited and it's explained by Hine on his first day that he showed rucking nous in the NEAFL. He was exposed big time as a second KPF at Sydney and if you ask any Sydney supporter, they they will tell you he was terrible in the second KPF role. His best form in the back of 2013 was when Tippett was the main KPF, Goodes played as a roaming forward in the front half and White played further up the ground.

Either way, 2016 is judgement year for Buckley. 4th, 8th, 11th & 12th. 16 wins, 14, 11 & 10 wins. He is coaching for his life and if the results continue in that direction, his contract won't be renewed.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

JB1975 you gonna have to forgive me ignoring the wall of text directed at me even though likelihood is I'll agree with the fair few points contained it.

But this discussion started from TG saying


The reference to us going through a massive list turnover for the second time since the handover.
You can't argue with that.


Yep, our side changed dramatically for multitude of reasons in a short space of time since the handover.
You can't argue with that.


He admits the possibility of this being a necessity as some players didn't take well to Bucks and/or were resting on their laurels.
You can't argue with that.


We're on the verge of losing a fair chunk of the side Bucks has been assembling over the last few years and not many would have expected this.
You can't argue with that.


Now, people are entitled to feel optimistic about our direction and Bucks eventually getting it right but if you base your judgement on the previous points he makes combined with our decent down the ladder during the last 4 years, once again, you can't argue with that.

I didn't say any of this can not be explained by the whys, hows and takes on the ability, application, form, prospects, hunger for money, cracking the sads, dislike of Bucks, disillusion with our medical staff or not willing to fight for the spot etc etc.

Just that the points contained in TG's post are impossible to argue against because that's precisely what happened.

Glad you've enjoyed the tunes.

Tunes? Little help (post number, I haven't read them all), I'm interested in what sort of background music this exchange could've evoked.

 

[JB1975]

Fair enough but I took his post for a statement of facts, not as direct critic of Bucks, even though I understand he might be implying it.

As for us getting a bit right, yes there are certain elements that have improved and I'm on the record saying so, the list will obviously improve with the the acquisition of Treloar on top of the success that Adams has turned out to be. But this is offset by a fair few things that stayed the same, some very questionable players that have been brought into the Club by Bucks, our constant drop on the ladder and some rather unexpected departures, 2 of them being the boys that grew up idolising Bucks but opted out of the life long dream to play and obviously succeed with their beloved Pies.

So while the perception of our direction might be attributed to whether you're glass half full or empty person there are plenty of causes for concern.

Cheers PB.

Thing is, I'm generally one of the most miserable pessimists amongst that portion of humanity which is unfortunate enough to know my acquaintance. But in relation to Collingwood, just at the moment, things feel...quite okay.

 

[PieBeast]

OMG are your frickin' for real? Massive turnover??? Damn right you can argue with that!
Leaving out Thomas & Keeffe who are basically a necessity (and probably will get re-drafted) we de-list Armstrong, Young, Karnezis, Dwyer and Manteit - all basically in the VFL all year - and lose Freeman who's played SFA and this is a massive turnover???
More crap from the usual suspects.

I've learnt not to engage the likes of you but for old times sake will make an exception.

You forgot Seeds and the likelihood of Kenno leaving.

That's about 8 players, with most of them if not all, brought to the Club by Bucks during the first rebuild, all going in one year.
If that's not a massive turnover I don't know what is.

 

[PieBeast]

Tunes? Little help (post number, I haven't read them all), I'm interested in what sort of background music this exchange could've evoked.

haha the Weeping Song from the Bad Seeds and Happy House by Siouxsie to depict our corresponding take on the state of our Club.

 

[JB1975]

Tunes? Little help (post number, I haven't read them all), I'm interested in what sort of background music this exchange could've evoked.

6210.

 

[jmac70]

I've learnt not to engage the likes of you but for old times sake will make an exception.

You forgot Seeds and the likelihood of Kenno leaving.

That's about 8 players, with most of them if not all, brought to the Club by Bucks during the first rebuild, all going in one year.
If that's not a massive turnover I don't know what is.

A few posts up you mentioned our constant drop down the ladder. Perhaps these list changes are designed to change that?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

haha the Weeping Song from the Bad Seeds and Happy House by Siouxsie to depict our corresponding take on the state of our Club.

I only like country or western.

 

[PieBeast]

I only like country or western.

That's okay mate, diversity is good and we all have something embarrassing about us

 

[Obese Arachnid]

That's okay mate, diversity is good and we all have something embarrassing about us

Which one is embarrassing, country or western?

 

[PieBeast]

A few posts up you mentioned our constant drop down the ladder. Perhaps these list changes are designed to change that?

Perhaps this strategy has failed to date?

Just a thought anyway and once again I didn't enter this debate for whys, ifs and maybes and all the possible theories.
Just said that it is happening and it's impossible to argue with.

 

[PieBeast]

Which one is embarrassing, country or western?

My lack of understanding there is a difference between the two genres

 

[jmac70]

Perhaps this strategy has failed to date?

Just a thought anyway and once again I didn't enter this debate for whys, ifs and maybes and all the possible theories.
Just said that it is happening and it's impossible to argue with.

It's a pretty big turnover. Of the players leaving I am really only disappointed about Freeman and Seedsman. I will reserve judgement until our final list for next season is announced.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

My lack of understanding there is a difference between the two genres

You can like both kinds, I guess.

 

[Buckleys_Chance]

The game has changed so much since 2010/2011, so talk of Brown and our forward golden era structure is outdated. The rebound style of play is what wins games now. The switch is what it's all about. Hawthorn have remained relevant because they have changed with the times. Our forward line is not disfunctional. Put Cloke one out in any forward line and he will win the vast majority of ball. Our midfield is too slow on the counter and we are way too slow on the spread (in the second half of this season). We have a young list. In 2014 we were competitive in the first half of the year and then we got spanked in the second half. 2014 we were competitive in the second half. If the same happens next year I will be surprised.

 

[PieBeast]

Hey all, this is my first post and thought it would be appropriate to make it on the Buckley thread. I think that we need to back the great man and see this through as a whole club rebuild, not a Buckley rebuild. If it fails, we fail. It is important to note that when Buckley took over as coach, player movement also began to free up. The club is trying to move with this in a progressive manner and any club that doesn't will fall behind. Yes, we made some bad calls early on with Russel, Lynch and even Young but we are starting to get it right with players like Varcoe and Greenwood. We need to get behind the club now. If we don't make the top 8 next year Buckley will be out of a job and the Club will be set back. We really need to get behind him and the club and be united or we will all suffer. Let's hope for a good trade period. Treloar will be a massive plus for us and the youth we have already got on board can only get better. It hurts to lose Freeman but we have just signed the greatest school boy talent since Carey so all is not lost. Stick fat and enjoy the ride.

Good first post even though I'm clearly nowhere near as optimistic of our prospects as you.

But my biggest fear is your suggestion of Bucks getting the arse if we don't make the eight next year will not eventuate.
Based on the precedent and Ed's fate tied with Bucks' The Club is far more likely to have another appeasing Q and A session with the supporters, push the narrative of us improving even though the results don't show it or even extend the coach's contract during this off season in the name of stability and once again based on sfa.

 

[JB1975]

Good first post even though I'm clearly nowhere near as optimistic of our prospects as you.

But my biggest fear is your suggestion of Bucks getting the arse if we don't make the eight next year will not eventuate.
Based on the precedent and Ed's fate tied with Bucks' The Club is far more likely to have another appeasing Q and A session with the supporters, push the narrative of us improving even though the results don't show it or even extend the coach's contract during this off season in the name of stability and once again based on sfa.

True enough, there seems to be a bit of an unhealthy conflict there. My view has been stated by others from time to time, which is that it would more likely be Buckley who pulls the pin, if the evidence is that he can't get the job done.

Having said that, Eddie wasn't afraid to burn his friendship with Mick in a rather public fashion in order to get what he thought was the right result, so perhaps he'd do the same again. I question the man's diet, but I don't question his love for the club.

 

[Bard]

True enough, there seems to be a bit of an unhealthy conflict there. My view has been stated by others from time to time, which is that it would more likely be Buckley who pulls the pin, if the evidence is that he can't get the job done.

Having said that, Eddie wasn't afraid to burn his friendship with Mick in a rather public fashion in order to get what he thought was the right result, so perhaps he'd do the same again. I question the man's diet, but I don't question his love for the club.

You should never question a man's diet.

 

[JB1975]

You should never question a man's diet.

I grant your point, not least because I'm now staring at the devoured remains of two (not one, but two) OMG! Mud n' Mousse. I am ashamed.

 

[PieBeast]

True enough, there seems to be a bit of an unhealthy conflict there. My view has been stated by others from time to time, which is that it would more likely be Buckley who pulls the pin, if the evidence is that he can't get the job done.

Having said that, Eddie wasn't afraid to burn his friendship with Mick in a rather public fashion in order to get what he thought was the right result, so perhaps he'd do the same again. I question the man's diet, but I don't question his love for the club.

No one can question Ed's love for the Club, just the fact he's capable of making a hard call on someone he adored, groomed for the position and envisaged as a successful coach of the Maggies for yonks.