the afl needs to penalise carlton

[MarkT]

Carlton should lose Kruizer like they would had they conspired for someone not draft him. Collingwood lost a player they drafted who sent letters to other clubs warning them not to draft him. The AFL sparked up when noises were made by the Gibbs camp.

There is no way the AFL are going to buy into this minefield though. All we can realistically hope for is the CLUB pressure and media heat force the AFL to backflip and drop priority picks. The whole thing goes away if a reverse ladder doesn’t determine draft order but that cuts a bit close to the AFL bone. If equity is truly sought, which it isn’t of course, then a rolling draft order delivers it and without ambiguity or anti competitive incentive. It also pens the door to trading in future draft picks in order to facilitate drafting and trading according to club list status.

 

[SA Tricolours]

I know this is another matter, but what annoys me is the potential effect on the league ladder "if" the teams that played Carlton were gifted an extra game, purely due to the draw.

For example, both West Coast and Adelaide did not play Carlton twice in 2007.

An extra win to West Coast would have put them in second place, and playing Port at home instead of away (where they only just lost).

An extra win to Adelaide would have put them in 6th and playing a final at home instead of away.

So many what if's, but a team tanking does affect the whole ladder.

 

[MarkT]

I may have this a bit wrong, but didn't Aker cause a massive uproar last season concerning a player who he assumed was on performance enhancing drugs? Weren't all his claims based on a 'feeling' he had...Similar to Libba's justification?

Just interesting I thought when you apply the 'feeling' statement to an issue concerning a player taking drugs. Everyone would be screaming bloody murder and calling it gospel if someone said they had a feeling a player was taking drugs

Aka had a feeling. Libba had an inside position and was involved in match preparation and match day tactics. Aka had no evidence whatsoever beyond his own observation. Libba’s comments back up observation and believe that is widely held and circumstantially at least sustainable. Aka may have been accurate. Libba is accurate.

 

[Daytripper]

If its proven then it becomes match fixing and as such they should have the kitchen sink thrown at them.

 

[dmc333]

- Melbourne didn't man up on Heath Scotland either, who also got 35 touches. Guess they were tanking too huh?
- Fev was off for about a minute, and was also injured. Everyone knew that. He went for bloody surgery the next day.

In regards to Scotland, he was racking them up all year, tagged or not. I'm no expert on him, but from what I've seen he seems to go wide a lot. Plausible that Melbourne thought he's not damaging enough if he's doing that.

I wouldn't expect anything to happen to Carlton, but there's no way the AFL could conduct the draft (in the straight last to first selection order) the same way again.

I also don't doubt Libba was doing this for himself, but at least some good may come of it, in removing priority picks and reorganising the draft.

 

[erical]

What!
Carlton have cheated?
I find that rather difficult to believe
I must say that Libba sounds like a spoilt little kid with his bagging of Carlton and previously of his beloved Bulldogs.
Maybe his window of coaching oppurtunities has now closed

 

[THRILLHOU]

Aka had a feeling. Libba had an inside position and was involved in match preparation and match day tactics. Aka had no evidence whatsoever beyond his own observation. Libba’s comments back up observation and believe that is widely held and circumstantially at least sustainable. Aka may have been accurate. Libba is accurate.

*sigh*

So they played young players who didnt deserve a game, because quote "Winning wasnt a priority". So their season was shot, and they played kids to get game time in them. The result was that they continued to lose games, so thats 'tanking'. My question is - how is that different to 2006 when North wrapped up a bunch of their stars and sent them off for early surgery to prepare for season 2007. Winning wasn't a priority obviously. The only difference was that they didnt finish last and get priority picks.

 

[The Fireman]

they got judd by tanking. imo they need to fine carlton heavily and take draft picks off them for at least the next two years. carlton has a culture of bending/breaking the rules to benefit themselves. the afl needs to set up an inquiry on this issue NOW and penalise carlton accordingly.

I would rather see the AFL close the ability to throw games.

 

[Beloved]

I don't think there's much doubt that we tanked the last few games, but surely no action will come of it so late after the occurance. If so, we may aswell go back and penalise anyone who has ever mentioned such a thing.

IMO, Liber sounds like a spoiled brat who is out of the job, left with the option of passing out inside information for cash.

 

[THRILLHOU]

PROOF... Here is a photo of Ratten's son taken LAST YEAR outside princess park.

 

[Sttew]

But will the AFL do anything? No. That would be an admission the priority draft pick system is flawed.

 

[Underdog]

Oh and would everyone stop pretending like no team has ever tanked before

So when West Coast fans say that about drugs it's them having their "head in the sand" but it's OK for you?

 

[Underdog]

*sigh*

So they played young players who didnt deserve a game, because quote "Winning wasnt a priority". So their season was shot, and they played kids to get game time in them. The result was that they continued to lose games, so thats 'tanking'. My question is - how is that different to 2006 when North wrapped up a bunch of their stars and sent them off for early surgery to prepare for season 2007. Winning wasn't a priority obviously. The only difference was that they didnt finish last and get priority picks.

irrelevant.

The AFL punished Ben Cousins and West Coast because it went public. The other teams with drug users (and more in some cases) remain unpunished and undeclared because it didn't become public.

If the AFL had a hint of credibility they should launch an inquiry and consider Carlton bringing the game into disrepute

 

[Jabber]

Everyone knows they tanked, everyone knows they will lie through their teeth about it, everyone knows the AFL will do nothing. Move on and just be satisfied that if they ever win a premiership in the next few years, it will be worthless in the eyes of everybody who isn't a Carlton supporter.

 

[ShinSplints]

they got judd by tanking. imo they need to fine carlton heavily and take draft picks off them for at least the next two years. carlton has a culture of bending/breaking the rules to benefit themselves. the afl needs to set up an inquiry on this issue NOW and penalise carlton accordingly.

WRONMG WRONG WRONG!!

Carlton got Judd by playing the rules of the game. The AFL needs to fine themselves!!!

AFLs problem if they are going to reward losing then LOSING is the name of the game. I say well done Carlton you won by tanking you deserve judd and kruzer!!

AFL are f'd in the head. This will all be solved by a simple lottery system and cash prize system.

 

[Kenny Hunter]

What a bunch of morons we have on these boards

"the afl needs to penalise carlton"

I haven't seen the whole interview with Libba but what i saw i remember him being asked the question and he said "think", which is totally different to the word "did".You don't put a guy away for murder on the word think..
Secondly was Libba let go by Carlton and Ratten and recently on the outter at the dogs , he has a axe to grind

Hello , yes Carlton did tank but Richmond did alot earlier than Carlton last year and Melbourne also did
With Carlton they decided to play the young kids in the last 6 rounds no matter what and get them ready for 2008 and sort out their list
Players like Griggs , Hampson (injured), Jamison,Harlett and Bower were pushed in hard into the mainstream of the side in those last 6 games and most of them will play round 1 next week , which would not have happen if we didn't take the steps we did at the end of last year by playing them.
Ricmond did exactly the same thing earlier by dropping a player in form Gaspar for younger guys for the future so Gaspar retired..

Plenty of teams have tanked in past Essendon, Collingwood just for starters.
Collingwood example the year they tanked and got Thomas and pendlebury

The real test of cheating and getting priorty picks is sides that rebound up the ladder the very next year

And finally if you are going to blame anything , blame the system , like i said other teams have done it and in other leagues like the NBA, teams tank at the end of the year for more lottery balls , what do you think the Heat are doing right now

 

[Funkalicous]

Lol. Penalised for 'bending' the rules. I don't think so. Besides, AD doesn't believe in tanking.

 

[morgoth]

AFL will investigate (they have to after Roos) and find nothing.

As Eddie said on SEN this morning, list managment rules change once you can't make finals, it then becomes all about making sure players are ready for pre-season v keeping em going.

Libba was a Pagan man and knew he was out of a job, when it is all said and done there was nothing said that was damning and it all seemed to be a beat up.

 

[Gyroscope_182]

It's not concrete, and with the issue being what it is, opinion will always dominate.

If Carlton wanted to tank, then they could've easily forfeited a match, played with 12 men on the field, or even lose by rushing behinds. The fact is, they played each match with intention of performing at some desirable level.

I still can't see how a side can tank to 'literally' throw games. I think there is obviously an aspect of not playing your best 22, but when the season is over at the half-way point of the season, there is always intention of developing and experimenting, or getting surgery on superstars during a season so their pre-season can't be interrupting.

In conclusion, it is hard to see how a club can be fined. What has to happen though, is, the league has to introduce something else to stop it from happening. They did re-invent priority drafting requirements, maybe thats a start.

 

[Gyroscope_182]

Also, as for tanking for Chris Judd... that is purely wrong on many reasons.

1) Judd had never made an initial decision where to go. Success would be one reason that may have turned him off Carlton;

2) They traded pick 3 and Josh Kennedy for Chris Judd in reality. Pick 1, which came from a result of 'tanking', did not have any involvement.

3) They have been tanking for possibly the last three years if last year is used as reference. Judd won a Brownlow in 2004, a premiership in 2006, he wasn't exactly going anywhere when this whole dillema started.

 

[Furn]

You cant punish Carlton for doing what every other team would have done in the same position.

If Richmond or Carlton are on 4 wins by round 13 or so expect to see the same thing happen again this year.

It's good that Libba has come out and said this though because maybe the AFL will change the system.

Fans should not be put in the position where they dont really want their team to win.

 

[The Majestic]

they got judd by tanking. imo they need to fine carlton heavily and take draft picks off them for at least the next two years. carlton has a culture of bending/breaking the rules to benefit themselves. the afl needs to set up an inquiry on this issue NOW and penalise carlton accordingly.

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that Carlton tanked? Do you have proof? To penalise the AFL needs to prove that Carlton has plans to lose the games they did, and unless they had someone that was there on game day to hear the instructions from the coach then there is no real way.

Saying it doesn't mean it happened.

 

[Blues_Man]

Aka had a feeling. Libba had an inside position and was involved in match preparation and match day tactics. Aka had no evidence whatsoever beyond his own observation. Libba’s comments back up observation and believe that is widely held and circumstantially at least sustainable. Aka may have been accurate. Libba is accurate.

Libba had nothing and Aker had nothing ...just like you they are both just full of shit .

 

[Thrawn]

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that Carlton tanked? Do you have proof?

Libba certainly didn't, despite some of the claims on here.

 

[MarkT]

Libba had nothing and Aker had nothing ...just like you they are both just full of shit .

I admit I have less than you. I don’t have a sandpit to bury my head in.