Exe Gesis
Kylo was here
- Sep 6, 2005
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Dude, Elway is one of the top 4 QB's all time. You nephews have no idea who you're dissing. The Broncos teams he took to the Super Bowls in the 80's were so ****ing sorry. Dan Reeves was an idiot who'd run the ball all game for 2 yards a clip and then tell Elway to go get the win in the 4th, down 21 most of the time, and Elway would be looking up, 4th and a mile to go as the pocket collapsed and fire a strike to a receiver a mile and an inch away, just as he was lit up by the defensive end. Every. Single. Time.
I can't tell you how many times I thought Derrick Thomas was about to just light him up from his blind side and some ****ing how some ****ing way he'd literally ****ing duck under him and then stand up and fire a strike. He was a ****ing super hero. If he played in today's culture, the media would hail him as the LeBron James of football.
You know all the pop culture football movies of the late eighties/entire 90's/early 00's? How their QB always does something ridiculous like Sunshine ducking an unblocked man in Remember the Titans, or Cap being helicoptered in Any Given Sunday or Mox completing a pass 75 yards downfield because a defensive back thought he couldn't throw that far in Varsity Blues? And you'd just roll your eyes and say "Ya, right."? Every single one of those were based on something Elway did. He was probably the most gifted athlete to ever play the position.
Elway was severely held back by an egotistical arseh*le AKA Dan Reeves. People underestimate how ****ing good John Elway was. He was a Monster an a half. However when you have a coach that wants to pound the rock for 3 Quarters, forcing his team into a hole and then allowing John Elway to do **** all in the 4th Quarter you get Elway's shitty numbers.
There's a reason why Elway's best season was 93. Because Dan Reeves was gone and he could actually operate in an offense that played to his strengths. You put Elway in an Air Coryell style of offense and the NFL would've had to make rule changes because it would've been so unfair.
Dan Reeves is the reason Elways stats are so ****ed up.
I always say this: Put Elway on the 80's and 90's Niners teams, and if nothing changes, they win more Championships. Put Montana on those 80's Broncos and he's in a body bag at age 26. Bill Walsh even considered trading for Elway, this is FACT.
Ask Redskins fans. Ask Browns fans. Ask Seahawks fans. Ask Patriots fans.
I'm dead serious there was a game the Broncos were down by 17 in Washington DC with three minutes left. They won by 4.
John Elway made me believe in the "clutch" gene.
So, why is Elway a legend? Why have people worked backwards from their conclusion to justify him as an elite, legendary, all-time great QB?
Oh, it’s his two rings.
Evaluating QB based on their stats is an improvement on the days of "QB WINZ", but it is still in many ways a flawed approach. The main weakness of the approach is that there are no such things as QB stats.
Every stat thought of a QB stat is, of course, actually a stat for the passing offense as a whole. That includes the quarterback, obviously, but it also includes the receivers, the line, the playcaller, how much respect the running back gets, whether the defense is letting the offense play with a lead, and so on.
Elway is one of the best candidates for a QB who was actually great in spite of leading in a middling passing attack.
Which is more likely: That Elway was an outright bad quarterback that fooled everyone into thinking he was great until finally breaking out and actually becoming great at the age of 33, or that Elway was a great quarterback all along and the mediocre Bronco passing attacks pre-Sharpe reflect the weakness of the rest of the offense, not of Elway?
- His teammates were not that impressive. The best receiver Elway had during the 1980s was Vance Johnson. Heard of him? Probably not. There's a reason for that. Elway didn't get to play with a Pro Bowl WR until 1995, although he at least had HoF TE Shannon Sharpe from 1992 on.
- When he did get a strong offense around him at the end of his career, he played at a very high level for a guy in his late 30s. Very much in line with his reputation.
- Observers in the late 80s and early 90s thought very highly of Elway, in spite of "his" mediocre stats. By the time he finally got a chance to play with a legitimately good receiver, Sharpe in '92, he already had four Pro Bowls and an NFL MVP on his shelf.
He was basically LeBron dragging the shitty Cavs to the playoffs to get beat, during his first years in Cleveland. His team was dreadful running a 1960’s offense.
I watched him play a lot. He was amazing and could do the physically impossible. He was accurate on the run, throwing across the whole field.
Stats don’t mean anything. It is something for the wanna be intellectuals to recite as concrete evidence how great a super hero was.
There were different styles back then. The offense was run differently. Referees called the games differently and the rules have changed dramatically.
Any one jack ass enough to call Elway average is either a moron or a troll. He should be considered one of the best of all time and stands in no QB’s shadow.
Who ever wrote this does not understand the game past to present, is not smart enough to connect the dots or is a true, blue blooded shit stirrer.
HORSESHIT. I'm an oldtimer by /r/nfl standards and I watched John Elway play. He was a legend long before those rings. Elway was in video games, ads, that Quarterback Club thing, you name it. Additionally, he dragged a bunch of decent-to-average Broncos teams to the playoffs year after year. I hate John Elway and I'm glad that Joe Montana schooled that Bronco-faced goober in Super Bowl XXIV, but JOHN ELWAY IS A LEGEND AND WAS A LEGEND LONG BEFORE HE EVER WON A SUPER BOWL.
Yeah seriously I watched him play, hell I watched Dan Fouts play and this entire post makes me hate millennials, using numbers out of context is the dumbest way ever to evaluate any player. Elway put teams on his back and had come backs that would make Brady blush. This from a former Charger fan, I hated that SOB.
This post and some of the responses just serve as another reminder that a lot of r/nfl is young people who look no further than stat sheets.
From 1983-1989 (a span in which Elway won an MVP, mind you) the only other offensive Bronco players to make the Pro Bowl were RB Sammy Winder and G Keith Bishop (they didn't have any all pros except Elway himself). I'd venture the idea that OP has no idea who either of those people are, neither does he (or almost anyone else) know who Vance Johnson was; he was Elway's best receiver before Sharpe. The reason nobody knows these people is that even they weren't that good, and they were the best Elway had to work with.
Furthermore, Dan Reeves' offensive gameplan was little more than, "hey, let's just have John Elway get us out of this 3rd and 8 situation I just created". No QB can be given that personnel and that coaching and put up stats.
And the thing is, we know these were the issues. Because at the ripe age of 33, when Elway was finally given good coaching and a good cast, he started producing statistically, and received multiple all pro nods in a golden age of QB play.
I can guarantee you OP never watched Elway play. Because everyone who did (and everyone who played with or against him) has nothing but good things to say about his play.
this is why i ****ing hate stats. he dragged shitty broncos teams that had no business being in the playoffs to the playoffs. everyone brings up peyton mannings lack of success in the playoffs too but same for him. look up bo jacksons stats, they're garbage on paper for how hyped he is. if you watched them play then you know. **** stats for this exact reason lmao.
stats are great, but they're nothing without context and they're nothing when you use em they way you do. you're just cherry picking and wording it to fit your narrative.
John Elway was an undisputed Hall of Famer before he played in either of the Super Bowls that they actually won.
This analysis could not be more out of touch with the reality of the time.
It feels like it was written from a perspective that doesn't really remember what pre-salary cap NFL football was like. Elway dragged terrible teams kicking and screaming into the postseason.
This is so dumb. Elway was already in the Hall of Fame before he won his 2 rings. His last 2 seasons aren't even impressive when compared to his 3 earlier SB appearances. They were just the icing on the cake for him.
Elway is the greatest example for why rings and stats don't tell half the story in ranking QB's. It's the eye test.
Tho I will say, if he played with Shanahan, Davis, etc. for 10 years, he'd have Marino's stats, and Montana's rings
Most of them. Playoff games more than onceAnd how many of these games did you watch with your own eyes??
They're easy to find
Elway had talent etc. But he was seriously overrated.They're easy to find
Tom Brady is also seriously overrated, but he's the 2nd greatest QB of all time. What's your point?Elway had talent etc. But he was seriously overrated.
#1Taken from reddit...
Using pro-football reference dot com, go to a player's career gamelogs, sort by highest passer rating, and then calculating totals, etc
So, picking the best 16 games (by passer rating) as tho it were one regular season.
Below, are their best possible "season" based on 16 best passer rating games...
Peyton: 317/400 (79.2%) 4406 yards 58 TD 0 INT 150.24 rating 14.29 AY/A
Brady: 354/455 (77.8%) 5060 65 TD 0 INT 149.2 rating 14.05 AY/A
Rodgers: 333/442 (75.3%) 4568 yards 60 TD 0 INT 144.8 rating 13.08 AY/A
Brees: 373/472 (79%) 5187 yards 67 TD 1 INT 148.8 rating 14.14 AY/A
In the multiple reddit threads, people have also been doing many QBs WORST 16 games. Funny stuff too.
Jimmy Clausen's BEST 16 games was still horrific like 7 TDs and 10 INTs.
Rodgers, from above, his worst was something horrendous, like 7 TDs and 36 INTs.
They're easy to find
These days mainly youtube... I used to find them through other means.May I know where? Is there other games, cos I'd really love to watch old Packer games!
Guess you'd have to come over and watch them with me
I'll be anything you want me to be, baby rrrrrDepends, are you the big spoon or little spoon??