Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[Roylion]

What does everyone think of this, especially Catholics? Boston tiger travelli

Pope Francis uses homophobic Italian slur in meeting with Italian bishops

The term was used as he reiterated that gay people should not be allowed to become priests.

www.abc.net.au

He should be suspended for three weeks and made to attend a Pride in Religion education session.

 

[Jibroni]

From a philosophical perspective, I find meaning from my connection to people - especially my family and close friends, but also from being around and visiting different cultures and learning from them. Being amongst nature and feeling a connection to it provides meaning too: a simple walk along a beach, feeling the wind, water and sun on my skin provides meaning and connection.

The beauty of life and necessity of death to form a place for new life brings meaning to me also.

I gain pleasure from visiting architectural wonders that take the form of churches and temples, and also partake in ceremonial aspects to appreciate the cultural value. It's notall negative.

I don't see how the supernatural or religious elements of organised religion can possibly add meaning to my life. Faith is a facade - a wilful denial of what we know to be real. People with faith are lying to themselves - and in turn, they lie to others. I don't believe it's possible to be a person of faith and honesty - we have to pick one or the other.

I don't disagree with your observations as I too find meaning in nature, family and culture whether religious or historical. It's what makes the world interesting.

But as men I think more are struggling to cope what to do in times of struggle and needing a coping mechanism during these times. Historically faith/religion has been a powerful tool for coping with the challenges of separation, anxiety, depression and those who don't have a coping mechanism or spiritual connection thus increasing the risk of these events.

I don't think the humanistic alternative has come with a solution to when life throws you an unexpected event and having an authoritative figurehead to either forgive or say "it's going to be ok".

 

[MrsBlueSky]

I don't disagree with your observations as I too find meaning in nature, family and culture whether religious or historical. It's what makes the world interesting.

But as men I think more are struggling to cope what to do in times of struggle and needing a coping mechanism during these times. Historically faith/religion has been a powerful tool for coping with the challenges of separation, anxiety, depression and those who don't have a coping mechanism or spiritual connection thus increasing the risk of these events.

I don't think the humanistic alternative has come with a solution to when life throws you an unexpected event and having an authoritative figurehead to either forgive or say "it's going to be ok".

I agree with your outlook on life regarding nature.
I certainly wouldn't be going to a catholic priest for help in times of mental anguish, from what I have read about them.
God gave a commandment not to kill and Jesus was the king of the jews. Put those things together today and you have one dirty great big killing field (which I equate to Pol Pot days).
Although the current war in the middle east could be a way of Jews pleading for the second coming to once again sort them out.
What do you think about that?

 

[Roylion]

and Jesus was the king of the jews.

Not according to the Jews or the Romans.

 

[paulige]

I agree with your outlook on life regarding nature.
I certainly wouldn't be going to a catholic priest for help in times of mental anguish, from what I have read about them.
God gave a commandment not to kill and Jesus was the king of the jews. Put those things together today and you have one dirty great big killing field (which I equate to Pol Pot days).
Although the current war in the middle east could be a way of Jews pleading for the second coming to once again sort them out.
What do you think about that?

I get this is sort of tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting that most are actually good, genuine people, just looking to help others.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Not according to the Jews or the Romans.

I wasn't around at the time, so I don't know what he was called or even if he existed.
All I can go by is what's in my bible, which I refer to as Google.
And google tells me when I asked this question Who was the King of the Jews in the Bible?

"In the New Testament, Pilate writes "Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews" as a sign to be affixed to the cross of Jesus."

Let's just say the New Testament referred to is in the Bible.
Let's imagine that Pilate was a Roman governor who presided over the trial of Jesus and ultimately ordered him to be crucified.
Where did you get your info from saying Jesus wasn't king of the jews according to Romans.

I can believe what you say about the Jews, not that I'm anti semetic, but the horrors they are committing right now would not be condoned by Jesus if he was their king, so they may have well denounced him.

EDIT And is that the same chap that we are talking about in the photo that I am referring to as being the King of the Jews? To agree on that would be a good start.

 

[Jibroni]

I agree with your outlook on life regarding nature.
I certainly wouldn't be going to a catholic priest for help in times of mental anguish, from what I have read about them.
God gave a commandment not to kill and Jesus was the king of the jews. Put those things together today and you have one dirty great big killing field (which I equate to Pol Pot days).
Although the current war in the middle east could be a way of Jews pleading for the second coming to once again sort them out
What do you think about that?

The Catholic Chruch has done some horrendous things but not all priests are bad, some of them are great men of God and can provide comfort for some. But I don't agree with the concept of papacy, celibacy for the priest/sisterhood and expecting a human to uphold these values whilst serving Gods church.

The Torah does not support the teachings/second coming of Christ as the Messiah and from what I understand most Jews in Israel a pretty secular these days.

 

[Roylion]

And google tells me when I asked this question Who was the King of the Jews in the Bible?

Herod the Great was king of the Jews. Recognised by the Roman Republic as a client king of the Herodian Kingdom of Judea.

"In the New Testament, Pilate writes "Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews" as a sign to be affixed to the cross of Jesus."

That doesn't mean Jesus is actually the 'King of the Jews'

Let's just say the New Testament referred to is in the Bible.
Let's imagine that Pilate was a Roman governor who presided over the trial of Jesus and ultimately ordered him to be crucified.
Where did you get your info from saying Jesus wasn't king of the jews according to Romans.

He wasn't recognised as 'King of the Jews' by the Romans. He was convicted and executed by the Romans for possibly claiming to be the King of the jews. That does not mean he was actually so.

The inscription placard attached on the cross seems to indicate what charge Jesus was executed for. Sedition.

I can believe what you say about the Jews, not that I'm anti semetic, but the horrors they are committing right now would not be condoned by Jesus if he was their king, so they may have well denounced him.

Jesus apparently also said in the Bible.

Matt. 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Matt 10:35 "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
Matt 10:36 "And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."

EDIT And is that the same chap that we are talking about in the photo that I am referring to as being the King of the Jews?

Being accused of claiming to be 'King of the Jews' and executed on a charge of sedition does not mean that Jesus was actually 'King of the Jews.'

 

[peetoo]

Not according to the Jews or the Romans.

Did monarchy even exist then roylion? We are told ‘king’ Herod in primary school

 

[Roylion]

Did monarchy even exist then roylion?

Err..yes. Why wouldn't it? What's your point?

We are told ‘king’ Herod in primary school

Yes? Didn't I say just a couple of posts above that.....

"Herod the Great was king of the Jews. Recognised by the Roman Republic as a client king of the Herodian Kingdom of Judea."

 

[evolved2]

I get this is sort of tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting that most are actually good, genuine people, just looking to help others.

A priest or pastor isn't a mental health professional, so I agree with MrsBlueSky that I wouldn't be consulting them for help with mental anguish.

I'm of the view that religion-based counseling is potentially dangerous; I wouldn't advise anyone to reach out for it.

Being a religious leader doesn't make one an expert on anything other than fairytales. Whether they're good or bad people is somewhat immaterial to mental health treatment.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

A priest or pastor isn't a mental health professional, so I agree with MrsBlueSky that I wouldn't be consulting them for help with mental anguish.

I'm of the view that religion-based counseling is potentially dangerous; I wouldn't advise anyone to reach out for it.

Being a religious leader doesn't make one an expert on anything other than fairytales. Whether they're good or bad people is somewhat immaterial to mental health treatment.

I like the way you're thinking and believe you have a very sound mind.
My daughter is a counsellor at a catholic school and as she's not religious herself I think it's better for her work.
When Jesus met the people of his day - a group called the Pharisees - he straight up called them exactly what they were: hypocrites.
There may be some good people in the church, just keep them doing what they do best - talking nonsense - and keep them away from me.

 

[Roylion]

When Jesus met the people of his day - a group called the Pharisees - he straight up called them exactly what they were: hypocrites.

The Pharisees were one of the sects of Judaism in the second and first centuries BC and the first century AD (others included the aristocratic Sadducees, the Essenes and the Zealots) According to Josephus, there were only about 6,000 Pharisees in total, they were considered the most expert and accurate expositors of Jewish law and they were popular with the common people.

Paula Frederiksen, an American historian and expert in early Christianity and Rabbi Michael J. Cook both argue that the passages of the New Testament that are the most hostile to the Pharisees were written sometime after the destruction of the Second Temple. Because only Christianity and Pharisaism survived the destruction of the Temple in AD 70, the two Jewish sects competed for followers for a short time. So the Gospel writers of the late 1st century AD and early 2nd century AD attempted in their writings to denounce the Pharisees as being obsessed with man-made rules (especially concerning purity). Despite this the Pharisees emerged as the dominant form of Judaism. (Rabbinic Judaism) and the Christian sect began seeking further growth by seeking new converts from amongst non-Jews.

So the Gospel writers writing that Jesus cast the Pharisees as 'hypocrites' is not surprising. That doesn't mean it was necessarily accurate.

 

[peetoo]

Err..yes. Why wouldn't it? What's your point?


Yes? Didn't I say just a couple of posts above that.....

"Herod the Great was king of the Jews. Recognised by the Roman Republic as a client king of the Herodian Kingdom of Judea."

Was asking not recoiling. So king in the Herod sense is monarchy as we think of it?

 

[Roylion]

Was asking not recoiling. So king in the Herod sense is monarchy as we think of it?

I'm not sure of your question.

Herod was a client king of the Roman republic. He ruled the kingdom on behalf of the Roman senate with the title of 'King of the Jews'. Client kings most often based their legitimacy on traditional dynastic claims and were usually native to the area they ruled over. A client king could essentially rule his kingdom autonomously, but he had to respect the global policies of the Roman Empire. They were expected to follow Roman foreign policy and provide military support when needed.

 

[evolved2]

I like the way you're thinking and believe you have a very sound mind.
My daughter is a counsellor at a catholic school and as she's not religious herself I think it's better for her work.
When Jesus met the people of his day - a group called the Pharisees - he straight up called them exactly what they were: hypocrites.
There may be some good people in the church, just keep them doing what they do best - talking nonsense - and keep them away from me.

Your daughter is doing a great thing. Mental health awareness and treatment is extremely important; I love that she's coming from a psychology/scientific angle rather than religious too.

It's strange to say, but the Catholic church impresses me in ways many churches don't. Bring open to reality as evidenced by accepting secular therapists and the theory of evolution is a big plus. Too many religious groups are off with the fairies!

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Your daughter is doing a great thing. Mental health awareness and treatment is extremely important; I love that she's coming from a psychology/scientific angle rather than religious too.

It's strange to say, but the Catholic church impresses me in ways many churches don't. Bring open to reality as evidenced by accepting secular therapists and the theory of evolution is a big plus. Too many religious groups are off with the fairies!

Yes and this school did away with their nuns a few years back. Just have to get religious studies off the compulsory list and it will be a good place to learn.
At the other end of the spectrum is pedophile David Koresh - his was the story of a maniacal and apocalypse-minded cult leader whose delusional stubbornness led to the deaths of 76 people. Have that in your bio as work experience and it draws people in from around the world.

 

[CD Xbow]

.....Despite this the Pharisees emerged as the dominant form of Judaism. (Rabbinic Judaism) and the Christian sect began seeking further growth by seeking new converts from amongst non-Jews.

So the Gospel writers writing that Jesus cast the Pharisees as 'hypocrites' is not surprising. That doesn't mean it was necessarily accurate.

Great strategic move by the Christians, separating religion from blood. The next was getting Constantine onside. If neither happened the world would be very different. I would probably be sacrificing a goat today for the winter solstice
The last sentance reminds us about the importance of labelling and spin. Somethings never change.

 

[peetoo]

Great strategic move by the Christians, separating religion from blood. The next was getting Constantine onside. If neither happened the world would be very different. I would probably be sacrificing a goat today for the winter solstice
The last sentance reminds us about the importance of labelling and spin. Somethings never change.

Surely you don’t believe your goat ‘spin’

I liked the bit where the Christian’s went from being murdered in numbers to doing the murdering within a couple of generations

So where did Christ say unbelievers (or ones who dared to read the Bible themselves) should be put to death as painfully as possible?

 

[CD Xbow]

Surely you don’t believe your goat ‘spin’

I liked the bit where the Christian’s went from being murdered in numbers to doing the murdering within a couple of generations

So where did Christ say unbelievers (or ones who dared to read the Bible themselves) should be put to death as painfully as possible?

I don't know why you call it spin. If Rome never became Christian it may be that pagan religions would have remained dominant, so yes, we may have been sacrificing goats and seeking wisdom examining their entrails.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Bulldust.

1000s of gods have been made up before. All of them eventually died off. The current ones are the same. Human beings like stories to comfort them in tough times.

What’s the scariest thing in the world? Well for most people it’s death.

Well guess what you’re in luck, not only is there a place where you will live forever in happiness you only need to make a small donation to your local church (or whatever) and believe exactly what we tell you to get there!!

If it sounds like a bad infomercial/scam. It’s because it is.

 

[sdfc]

Surely you don’t believe your goat ‘spin’

I liked the bit where the Christian’s went from being murdered in numbers to doing the murdering within a couple of generations

So where did Christ say unbelievers (or ones who dared to read the Bible themselves) should be put to death as painfully as possible?

Christ probably wouldn't be welcome in some churches.

 

[peetoo]

Christ probably wouldn't be welcome in some churches.

Probably more at home in some mosques

 

[sdfc]

Probably more at home in some mosques

Yeah maybe.

 

[Total Power]

This troll lasted a whole one post. Must be a new record.