The Big Braun Thread

[Claude Balls]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

And ??? It was Ch 7 melb who released the name. MMM im sure they run every single detail through the owner hey

Hey genius - 'permutates' isn't a word... though 'permeates' is. Or were you thinking of permutation? Regardless, you're wrong on both counts! Genius

 

[Chewy]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Its no great suprise that the Braun saga originated in Victoria. With the biased Herald Sun printing a pathetic story so devoid of fact and logic it can only be described as laughable. Followed by Ch 7 Melb releasing the name of this "fictional" cheat..and then in the aftermath the Victorian media defending its decision and only printing articles supporting the loud mouth arrogant twit...and ignoring the fact a players rep has been tarnished by a person who admits he has NO evidence and whose ego is only matched by his stupidity...Amazing
I wonder if the Sun and Ch 7 Melb would of acted the same if a Victorian based player was the centre of Akers claims ???? I very much doubt it !! Throw enough mud some might stick hey ??
While we in the west are use to the unrelenting anti Eagle dribble that originates from this cry baby state, an attack on a club and player based purely on fiction is ridiculous.
The constant crying that permutates from Victoria is getting embarrassing. I have no doubt the Vic media and public are desperate for one of its clubs to win the cup. Its only a coincidence that WC are the main threat from this happening. It seems any gutter tactic is allowed, hey?
While i expect a backlash from the hero's on BF, please don't respond unless you can supply 1 valid reason why this is even a story except for trying to destabilize WC before the finals..
When is the AFL going to get off its hands and suspend this twit for making outrageous accusations and bringing the game into disrepute ?
And last time I checked the only proven cheats in the AFL are Victorian based players and Victorian clubs... Funny That !!!!

2006 Premiers: West Coast*

 

[WestCat]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Oh dear, you are pretty thick aren't you?

Maybe try reading the article first? Aker said he didn't have any evidence. He also didn't give any details about the player apart from that they played against each other on a 28 degree day at the Gabba when Aker was still near the peak of his career. The ASADA leaked the name, Aker took all the right avenues to tell them the name of the player but used the player (without mentioning any details about who it could be) as an example in an article he wrote. His article was mostly about how easy it is for AFL players to use PED's without being caught and many people from other clubs agree with him, he used Braun as an example.

Exactly, Aka only highlighted a flaw in the system, then Channel 7 highlighted another flaw in the system. It's no wonder Cousins passed 14 drugs tests, he probably knew about them a month in advance.

 

[blackcat]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

No one has a clue about EPO.

EPO will not give any footballer an advantage that is visibile to the eye.

Footballers are great all around athletes, but they are ordianary aerobic athletes on account of their training regime to cope with demands and skills of AFL.

Most of their efforts on the field are anaerobic.

Unless you are running a 32 minute 10 km, or can follow wheels in an A grade bike race, you are not depleting the full carrying capicty of oxygen in your blood. EPO will not provide a linear improvement. Far from it. If you have enough oxygen in your aerobic system, it will not do a thing.

So, unless an AFL player is anaemic, it will not do a thing. Extra oxygen in the blood may have recuperative advantages, there is some anecdotal evidence of that. But this will not be visible on the field. It might help a pre-season a smidgeon. It will not make a material differnce.

Neil Craig, and sports medicos should know this stuff, I am quite aghast at the ignorance in the media and sports performance scientists.

So, repeating, unless an AFL player runs, 32 km in 10 minutes, and that is an arbit number, I concede, that Bolton of Essendon and Clarke of Hawthorn would encroach on that territory, there is the likelihood, they are no where near their oxygen threshold in the blood. So some more oxygen in the blood will not do a thing for them, there is no linear relationship.

Now, all physiologies are different, and some naturally carry more oxygen in their blood than less, but no AFL player is anaemic. Crawford also packs about an extra 10 kgs on his frame the same size of Clarke so that probably transcends into the equivalent of a 34 minute ten km tax on the aerobic system.

Repeating, EPO will provide no tangible difference that can be seen on a footy field.

Aker has been swapping too many stories around the barbie with his mate Robbie Mcewen, who would have told him all about cycling's culture. If Aker is a big boy, and wants to throw accusations, he would have a first hand one, a verbal admission. But no, he is gutless, and makes an allegation of an opponent who kicked his arse.

I follow cycling, not football. Cycling is a joke though, stopped following it after it got too much with the PEDS.

 

[FuManchu]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

No one has a clue about EPO.

EPO will not give any footballer an advantage that is visibile to the eye.

Footballers are great all around athletes, but they are ordianary aerobic athletes on account of their training regime to cope with demands and skills of AFL.

Most of their efforts on the field are anaerobic.

Unless you are running a 32 minute 10 km, or can follow wheels in an A grade bike race, you are not depleting the full carrying capicty of oxygen in your blood. EPO will not provide a linear improvement. Far from it. If you have enough oxygen in your aerobic system, it will not do a thing.

So, unless an AFL player is anaemic, it will not do a thing. Extra oxygen in the blood may have recuperative advantages, there is some anecdotal evidence of that. But this will not be visible on the field. It might help a pre-season a smidgeon. It will not make a material differnce.

Neil Craig, and sports medicos should know this stuff, I am quite aghast at the ignorance in the media and sports performance scientists.

So, repeating, unless an AFL player runs, 32 km in 10 minutes, and that is an arbit number, I concede, that Bolton of Essendon and Clarke of Hawthorn would encroach on that territory, there is the likelihood, they are no where near their oxygen threshold in the blood. So some more oxygen in the blood will not do a thing for them, there is no linear relationship.

Now, all physiologies are different, and some naturally carry more oxygen in their blood than less, but no AFL player is anaemic. Crawford also packs about an extra 10 kgs on his frame the same size of Clarke so that probably transcends into the equivalent of a 34 minute ten km tax on the aerobic system.

Repeating, EPO will provide no tangible difference that can be seen on a footy field.

Aker has been swapping too many stories around the barbie with his mate Robbie Mcewen, who would have told him all about cycling's culture. If Aker is a big boy, and wants to throw accusations, he would have a first hand one, a verbal admission. But no, he is gutless, and makes an allegation of an opponent who kicked his arse.

I follow cycling, not football. Cycling is a joke though, stopped following it after it got too much with the PEDS.

But arent you talking about endurance athletes with lean muscle mass and slow twitch muscle?

There would have to be a benefit to heavier massed athletes who have more faster twitch muscle mass and who would deplete higher levels of oxygen in their blood because of their muscle mass. And the effects on lactic build up because of this.

 

[Del Piero]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

2006 Premiers: West Coast*

Thank you for proving my point !!! Vic Bitter not just a beer, but a way of life....

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

Are you the blackcat from the SBS TDF Forum? Sounds like it. Was always interesting to read your insights into drugs in cycling.

 

[Butane]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

 

[Max zero]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

This sums it up

To be honest I can't see anything wrong with that?

No matter what happens from now on Braun will have the smear of being labeled a drug cheat. Not are recreational users but a DRUG CHEAT. And he will have that smear from the rest of his career.

And based on what? He played a good game on Jason Akemanis.

There is a reason why we have the idea of innocent till proven guilty. It's to stop mere accusations from destroying other peoples reputations.

Final point: What if your wrong Aker?

 

[giantsully]

Re: Braun taking LEGAL ACTION

Can anyone point me to a direct quote from Braun?.

The press release is still in the inbox of the Eagles' legal team - they're busy people you know!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Its no great suprise that the Braun saga originated in Victoria. With the biased Herald Sun printing a pathetic story so devoid of fact and logic it can only be described as laughable. Followed by Ch 7 Melb releasing the name of this "fictional" cheat..and then in the aftermath the Victorian media defending its decision and only printing articles supporting the loud mouth arrogant twit...and ignoring the fact a players rep has been tarnished by a person who admits he has NO evidence and whose ego is only matched by his stupidity...Amazing
I wonder if the Sun and Ch 7 Melb would of acted the same if a Victorian based player was the centre of Akers claims ???? I very much doubt it !! Throw enough mud some might stick hey ??
While we in the west are use to the unrelenting anti Eagle dribble that originates from this cry baby state, an attack on a club and player based purely on fiction is ridiculous.
The constant crying that permutates from Victoria is getting embarrassing. I have no doubt the Vic media and public are desperate for one of its clubs to win the cup. Its only a coincidence that WC are the main threat from this happening. It seems any gutter tactic is allowed, hey?
While i expect a backlash from the hero's on BF, please don't respond unless you can supply 1 valid reason why this is even a story except for trying to destabilize WC before the finals..
When is the AFL going to get off its hands and suspend this twit for making outrageous accusations and bringing the game into disrepute ?
And last time I checked the only proven cheats in the AFL are Victorian based players and Victorian clubs... Funny That !!!!

And West coast supporters wonder why we think they're a bunch of w***ers

 

[westkate]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

So Aka the Queenslander is the vessel by which the Victorian media has used in order to shun, embarrass and shame one of their own, as Michael Braun is a proud Victorian, who would surely pull on the Big V given the opportunity. And people like you, Del Piero want to throw senseless barbs at all other Victorian’s as a result! It is uneducated and offensive!

I live in Perth and the Perth media is atrocious, every Thursday on the channel 7 news you get the eagles and the Dockers teams, not even the sides they are playing let alone every other club in the national competition. At most other times they treat the Dockers with contempt and blow kisses to the eagles as much as possible. It was fine when the newspapers were covered in information about the premiership last October but 'there is more important things going on in the world' when a player is in the news for the wrong reasons! Toughen up princesses!

There is no excuse for dragging a players reputation through the mud with no proof but it wasn't Aka who did that, he was very careful not to name the player and since it has broken he has not confirmed the player either.

People make bad decisions all the time and clearly a bad decision was made in naming Braun. Just like you, Del Piero, made a bad decision by allowing your paranoia, which granted is instilled at birth get the better of you.

 

[Mr Smiff]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Are you the full quid? How do you know the only cheats in the AFL are Victorian? Do you have proof of that?

The WA media is just as bad as the Victorian media, get over yourself mate!

I reckon that they are worse..........!!!!!!
That Hagdorn is full of himself.
No Weasel can do wrong in his book.

 

[greennick]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Perth is the armpit of Australia. People like you are a blight on this game and this country.

And to think you're probably allowed to vote in an election. What a waste of a vote

Crap post. Even over here you still have to be 18 to vote.

More dribble from the Weagles supporters.
You're are just bringing more attention to the matter and you are making you look and sound like a total fool.

I don't know how the media would of acted if it was a Victorian club but just maybe because of the WCE past with Ben Cousins and all, they made a big deal out of it.

Crap post, we don't all dribble shit, but you gotta understand, a lot of us are provoked a lot.

Yeah because the Sun and Aker totally said who the player was and what club they are from

ASADA are at fault for leaking the name.

Aker gave away enough info to work it out, even if with a few of us, still the whole footy world would have known pretty fast. How do you know ASADA leaked the name anyway? That is speculation, of which I think we have had enough already.

Take it up with the owner, who just so happens lives in Perth!!! A Perth conspiracy I'd say .......... hey!

I will more or less drive past his house on my way home because I am looking after my parents house. Maybe I should stop by and say hi!

 

[blackcat]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

But arent you talking about endurance athletes with lean muscle mass and slow twitch muscle?

There would have to be a benefit to heavier massed athletes who have more faster twitch muscle mass and who would deplete higher levels of oxygen in their blood because of their muscle mass. And the effects on lactic build up because of this.

No. There are 3 different energy systems. Anerobic and power (sub 10 second) efforts work on a different energy system.

I am not a sports scientist but have a very rudimentary understanding.

That said, sprinters, Marion Jones etc, anecdotally, have used EPO. The science is out on that however, EPO will work on the aerobic system, more oxygen in the blood will not help the power effort, ATP energy system. It was speculated, with one ambiguous study of EPO in short anaerobic efforts, or ATP power efforts, the reason it may have had a trivial or token increment to performance. But it is not tangible. Definitely could not be seen on a football field, ie, any performance advantage.

More muscle mass is immaterial, but a heavier athlete will have a greater tax on their aerobic system for the same effort, ie, compare Clarke to Crawford. If Crawford was 2 minutes slower, he has probably expended the same effort with those extra 10kgs he haulled through 10 km.

 

[funhouse]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

And last time I checked the only proven cheats in the AFL are Victorian based players and Victorian clubs... Funny That !!!!

Um... Justin Charles pleaded guilty to steroids and that was ten years ago.
And the only other drug cheat ever was Alistair Lynch who came forward after the drug that he was prescribed for chronic fatigue syndrome was put on the banned list without him knowing, and Lynch was playing for Brisbane at the time.
I not sure, but I think Brisbane is in Queensland.

Ketamine however isnt on the banned list, so its ok if people do it.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s1880444.htm

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

*ducks and runs*

Crap thread (probably an alias) followed by an even crappier post #2.

Bunga_from_65 or Big Cox ?
It's got that whinging tone like 99% of the threads started by Big Cox

 

[FuManchu]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

I will more or less drive past his house on my way home because I am looking after my parents house. Maybe I should stop by and say hi!

ask him to put agro back on TV will ya?

 

[FuManchu]

Re: The summation of Aker's allegations, the response and the case for Braun

No. There are 3 different energy systems. Anerobic and power (sub 10 second) efforts work on a different energy system.

I am not a sports scientist but have a very rudimentary understanding.

That said, sprinters, Marion Jones etc, anecdotally, have used EPO. The science is out on that however, EPO will work on the aerobic system, more oxygen in the blood will not help the power effort, ATP energy system. It was speculated, with one ambiguous study of EPO in short anaerobic efforts, or ATP power efforts, the reason it may have had a trivial or token increment to performance. But it is not tangible. Definitely could not be seen on a football field, ie, any performance advantage.

More muscle mass is immaterial, but a heavier athlete will have a greater tax on their aerobic system for the same effort, ie, compare Clarke to Crawford. If Crawford was 2 minutes slower, he has probably expended the same effort with those extra 10kgs he haulled through 10 km.

It's hard to imagine the benefit for any sprinter using RPO, but I guess without experimentation there would be no advances.

Is there a renal consequence if too much EPO is used?

 

[garlic munchers]

Were EPO type substances even banned when Braun was alleged to have been performing abnormally?

A quick search on google doesn't show this as being a banned substance in the AFL around the time of the allegation.

If this was the scenerio & Braun did take it then how would it be different to Lynch taking substances which were later placed on a banned list (I know the arguement that he needed it to overcome CFS, but steriods can help overcome knee injuries and we don't allow their use for this purpose).

Also, as per the ASDA website:

EPO type substances produce the following:


"Side effects can vary significantly depending on the type of modified haemoglobin product used. Adverse effects may include hypertension, vasoconstriction, kidney damage and iron overload.
Risks associated with the use of perflurochemicals can be extremely serious and include transient fever, reduction in the platelet count and potential for overloading the body’s immune system."

Therefore, it would not appear to be a drug of choice for a sport that requires 20 plus weeks of repeated performance given the side effects (particulary reduced immune response). You might use it for a final but not at that time of the season.

Big difference to Tour de France which is condensed to a week or so.

 

[Quinz]

Re: Were EPO type substances even banned when Braun was alleged to have been performing abnormally?

I can't see how EPO would ever have been allowed. But who knows.

 

[Del Piero]

Re: Pathetic Victorians.....

Um... Justin Charles pleaded guilty to steroids and that was ten years ago.
And the only other drug cheat ever was Alistair Lynch who came forward after the drug that he was prescribed for chronic fatigue syndrome was put on the banned list without him knowing, and Lynch was playing for Brisbane at the time.
I not sure, but I think Brisbane is in Queensland.

Ketamine however isnt on the banned list, so its ok if people do it.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s1880444.htm

Didn't write drug cheats just cheats.. ie salary cap, draft and drugs..Whoops just realised who you support..Funny you forgot about your clubs cheating (proven) past...

 

[tandino]

Re: Were EPO type substances even banned when Braun was alleged to have been performing abnormally?

If this was the scenerio & Braun did take it then how would it be different to Lynch taking substances which were later placed on a banned list (I know the arguement that he needed it to overcome CFS, but steriods can help overcome knee injuries and we don't allow their use for this purpose).

Assuming that EPO was not on the banned list, there would be no difference apart from the obvious fact that Lynch was using a since banned substance to overcome an injury.

 

[Juddy88]

Re: Were EPO type substances even banned when Braun was alleged to have been performing abnormally?

I'd say it would have been definitely banned.

How many more threads are we going to have on EPO?

 

[*PAF]

Re: Braun taking LEGAL ACTION

The press release is still in the inbox of the Eagles' legal team - they're busy people you know!

Legal Eagles? Hmm interesting.