The BigFooty Liverpool Army - Part 17

[Cooldude]

WBA were flying tackles, kicking and grabbing all day and the refs let it go, fair enough if that's the way he's gonna roll, but the first robust challenge Carroll made (which was no better or worse than any other that he had let go) was booked. Maybe ginsoak was right about Atkinson

 

[SebastianVettel]

Atkinson is a ****. Any game we get him, you can pretty much mark it down as a loss.

Carroll was ridiculously harshly treated, but he's still a psycho. And looks to be quite a useless psycho.

 

[BarcaRulz]

I just found out that Hodgson was paid 8.8 million over the short period of time he was with your lot (including his payout ofcourse). That averages 46,000 a day!

I want to become a failed football manager.

 

[Special88]

I can obviously see the value Carroll ads in the air and his ability to bring the ball down and win headers... But beyond that he looks clumsy and slow with the ball at his feet... Hopefully he is just underdone but unless we whip in crosses all game long.. which is what we don't do.. what can he do for us?

 

[Dagger5]

We are very predictable with Carroll up front, we just keep hoofing the damn ball up to him. Playing with Kuyt upfront may be a better option in all honesty especially since we miss Gerrard and Aurelios deliveries.

 

[Coledinho]

A difference between a targetman and a beast. Carlton Cole is a targetman, Andy Carroll is a beast. I cant remember the last time Carlton Cole scored a goal from a corner with his head. Maybe got 1 or 2 in his whole West Ham career that way. As a targetman hes actually a poor header of the ball. What he is, is a body to body worker. One that outmuscles his opponent to win the longballs pitched up to him.

Carroll is your typical beast. Athletic, strong but lacks the touch/upper body strength to be a real target man striker. Carroll cant be used like a Carlton Cole because hes not good enough to a) get it down to his feet and b) then use it. I wouldnt be blaming Andy Carroll for being poorly used. His teammates just need to realise what type of player he is. Play it to his feet when hes up the field and cross it onto his head from outwide when hes in the box. Everytime you get wide nowadays you just run into the box without even considering Carroll. Once or twice itd be better for Suarez to just pull back out of the box and try to float one in for Carroll to get his head on

When you can be both a targetman and a beast (Drogba in his prime) thats when your world class. Neither Cole or Carroll can do this im afraid

 

[folester41]

carroll is no suarez on the deck, but he is much better than he showed last night.

the problem with him is he is only going to be effective in games where we boss the midfield, im not going to judge him until the end of next season if and when we finally have a good enough midfield and decent wingers who can put a ball in to utilise him.

 

[Kaan]

Playing with Kuyt upfront may be a better option in all honesty especially since we miss Gerrard and Aurelios deliveries.

Kuyt up front means Maxi is going to be playing on one of the wings

Don't expect Carroll to do much when we're getting smashed he doesn't seem like that kind of a player.

At the moment Suarez seems like the only player we have that can still be dangerous even when we're playing bad.

 

[Dagger5]

Kuyt up front means Maxi is going to be playing on one of the wings

Don't expect Carroll to do much when we're getting smashed he doesn't seem like that kind of a player.

At the moment Suarez seems like the only player we have that can still be dangerous even when we're playing bad.

We are going to have to spend very wisely on players that can deliver a good ball to Carroll, Adam and Young as rumoured would be good for this role.

I do remember seeing Carroll against Arsenal and he was absolutely everywhere, just wish we could see him get close to performing like that soon.

 

[jod23]

Woeful stuff. Just absolutely woeful stuff.

No European football next season will make it difficult to bring in the targets we really want this summer. KD (if he is still manager) and DC will have there work cut out for them, but we need drastic changes to the squad to really push forward.

We need a real quality central midfielder, a left back, a central defender, two wingers and another forward.

Out - N'Gog, Greek, Maxi, Jova, Poulsen, Spearing, Aurelio.
In - Adam, A.Young, Cahill, Enrique and a forward.

Oh and Reina will be gone in the summer too no doubt.

 

[jod23]

Oh and when will Carroll start being good... I heart Suarez though. We need Stevie back. As much as most of you hate him, he is still far and away our best and most influential player.

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

Losing Agger ****ed us up big time, once he went we were on the back foot.

Is he some good luck charm like the lucky pair of underpants? Because from what I saw, we didn't lose because our CB's were shit, we lost because we were absolutely dominated by a team trying to stay out of the relegation zone, caused almost completely by our lack of creativity in midfield resulting in an inability to hold the ball for more than 2 passes.

We just look a disgraceful team sometimes. And you can see when you look at the 'quality' of the players playing in the firsts. I wouldn't even have Kuyt as a squad player. He is seriously pants - probably has the worst first, second and third touch from a Liverpool player in the last 10 years. Meireles should be a squad player - Doesn't have the quality and creativity to justify staying in a position on the field as important as his.

I still am shaking my head wondering why we wasted an entire half hoofing it to Caroll (captains instructions perhaps?). Some of you may blame the ref, but seriously how can it not be more the players' fault for kicking it to him when a) he is stationary and b) he has 3 WBA players directly on him? Seriously, you question the IQ of our backs and midfielders sometimes.

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

Oh and when will Carroll start being good... I heart Suarez though. We need Stevie back. As much as most of you hate him, he is still far and away our best and most influential player.

Carrol will start being good when we actually use tactics that compliment him, and therefore the team. Someone was having you on if they told you he would beat 3 defenders in the air everytime a player hoofed it to him. Firstly, we need a winger that has quality (ie. not Kuyt) and we also need Suarez to at least draw one of those defenders away. Then we need to actually play it out of defense (ie. keep it away from Carragher) through the midfield. You know, that thing all those good teams do. So we at least can play it to him when his chances of winning it are around abouts 50/50 instead of 70/30 (against).

I never believed Carroll was a star. But what should be a very important cog (because of his unique ability with the head and his size)0 in a brilliant team. Now we just need the remainder of the brilliant team. Repeating, our midfield is balls and lacks any element of creativity. As you say, Gerrard the most important player for our team by a fair bit too. Hopefully in a year we wont be saying that because we get some quality.

My read on Pepe is that he is gone. He looks bloody frustrated out there. Can hardly blame him with the spuds he calls teammates. F uck me.

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

No Agger no Liverpool

That's why we need some centre backs, can't rely on a bloke who is obviously immense but can't play for 3 games in a row

No Agger no Liverpool? Seriously?

CB's are still the least of our concern when we don't have a single winger or LB. Hopefully Kenny understands the teams problems better than some of our supporters.

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

...especially since we miss Gerrard and Aurelios deliveries.

I don't think it's 2008/2009 anymore. Injured or not, Aurelio does not influence a game, nor do I see many of these deliveries you speak of.

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

A difference between a targetman and a beast. Carlton Cole is a targetman, Andy Carroll is a beast. I cant remember the last time Carlton Cole scored a goal from a corner with his head. Maybe got 1 or 2 in his whole West Ham career that way. As a targetman hes actually a poor header of the ball. What he is, is a body to body worker. One that outmuscles his opponent to win the longballs pitched up to him.

Carroll is your typical beast. Athletic, strong but lacks the touch/upper body strength to be a real target man striker. Carroll cant be used like a Carlton Cole because hes not good enough to a) get it down to his feet and b) then use it. I wouldnt be blaming Andy Carroll for being poorly used. His teammates just need to realise what type of player he is. Play it to his feet when hes up the field and cross it onto his head from outwide when hes in the box. Everytime you get wide nowadays you just run into the box without even considering Carroll. Once or twice itd be better for Suarez to just pull back out of the box and try to float one in for Carroll to get his head on

When you can be both a targetman and a beast (Drogba in his prime) thats when your world class. Neither Cole or Carroll can do this im afraid

Good post. Now to get the message to our players...

 

[Kaan]

Because from what I saw, we didn't lose because our CB's were shit

Our CB's weren't bad defensively(besides Soto) bu they all keep giving it away unnecessarily by hoofing it upfield.

CB isn't our biggest concern but it's certainly not our least concern.

I don't think it's 2008/2009 anymore. Injured or not, Aurelio does not influence a game, nor do I see many of these deliveries you speak of.

I disagree, I think he is class when fit.

 

[archiemoses]

If Aurelio could string 10-20 games together you will see he's class. It can't be easy playing 3 games, getting injured, doing rehab. When has he ever really been match fit?

It must be a mental drain as well. I just wish Maxi would donate his body to Aurelio.

And that was a good post Embers regarding Cole / Carroll. I think Carroll can be on the brink of World Class. I don't think he will never reach Drogba heights, but I guess people weren't saying that about Drogba when he was 22 either?

When I think of World Class, I think complete players. No significant deficiencies and do everything really well.

So how do you analyse Carroll?
Physique - Big and strong. I think with experience and time he will be able to play the hold up striker role very well. He will learn to use his body to his advantage.
Aerial ability - World Class
Shot technique - Very good
Technique (when ball on floor at feet). Main area of improvement. He won't be able to beat defenders with trickery. However, he only needs to improve slightly in this regard. This deficiency can be covered by team structure and obviously the recruiting of decent wingers to play to his strengths. He doesn't need to beat defender one on one, this can be done by suarez and wingers and other creative players.
Work rate - Very good. Chases, defends and tackles.
Mentality - Loves a pint, not surprising, he is English . But it is important that he knows where his priorities are. It is ultimately up to him with what he wants to achieve with his football career. If he is willing to work hard in training and developing his game then he will be very successful. Ability means nothing if you don't have the application.

Anything I have missed or others would like to point out?

 

[adam10]

Woeful stuff. Just absolutely woeful stuff.

No European football next season will make it difficult to bring in the targets we really want this summer. KD (if he is still manager) and DC will have there work cut out for them, but we need drastic changes to the squad to really push forward.

We need a real quality central midfielder, a left back, a central defender, two wingers and another forward.

Out - N'Gog, Greek, Maxi, Jova, Poulsen, Spearing, Aurelio.
In - Adam, A.Young, Cahill, Enrique and a forward.

Oh and Reina will be gone in the summer too no doubt.

I like your ins and outs, would add most of the players on loan to the Out list and we need more then one winger, we need a Jarvia/Marveoux type as well IMO, wouldn't sell N'Gog and i'd be chasing Van Wolfswinkel to.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

People need to give up on both Aurelio and Agger. They are as unreliable as they come. We need to plan like they don't exist (e.g. find a quality CB to replace Agger), and then if by some good fortune they come good, all it's done is increase our depth. We can't plan our team around Agger being a starting CB, too often he doesn't play.

 

[Coledinho]

Andy Caroll isnt big and strong though in his upper body yet. Certainly not like a Cole/Zamora/K.Jones type of striker.

Its not that easy to develop a targetman game/skill set. It took Bobby Zamora all of 10 years to do it and to finally reach his potential and this was after 4 different clubs and a few kicks in the ass along the way. Not saying Carroll is gonna take that long, its just quite tough to do hence why the 35 mill looks and seems so stupid. IF he develops the skillset to become the double threat like I said he may be worth it but its a huge risk and gamble to take because alot of players dont make the grade like that.

Id quit the long ball stuff for now especially when its coming in from so deep. Zamoras targetman game really came together IMO when Carlos Tevez came to the club and formed a duo with him late on in the season. Didnt play the long balls to his head but played the short ones into his feet and chest and Zamoras developed the old one/two partnership with him. Once Tevez left Zamora went downhill again and it wasnt until at Fulham he was able to develop that one/two game again with Gera did his game really come into its own. Id make a case for shifting Suarez centrally in a 4-4-1-1 formation for a game or two to try and develop that type of partnership. Suarez is doing good wide but ultimately he came to the club to score and create goals and the better partnership he has with Carroll the more goals he is going to score and create.

 

[Jessica Watson]

People need to give up on both Aurelio and Agger. They are as unreliable as they come. We need to plan like they don't exist (e.g. find a quality CB to replace Agger), and then if by some good fortune they come good, all it's done is increase our depth. We can't plan our team around Agger being a starting CB, too often he doesn't play.

Unfortunately it's come to this now.

We just cannot rely on Agger.

I'd given up on Aurelio about 18 months ago.

 

[Coledinho]

Unfortunately it's come to this now.

We just cannot rely on Agger.

I'd given up on Aurelio about 18 months ago.

You shouldnt rely on one CB when you have 5 others. Your problem is you only have one CB that can pass a football. He is injury prone but his worth is at a all time low so selling him bares little point. The real answer comes in actually offloading one of the 5 other CBs you have who have the creativity of a Daniel Agger skidmark. A passing CB like Sakho is needed badly. A player that can partner and replace Agger when injury occurs

 

[Nuke Fremantle]

Kelly, Aurelio and now Gerrard all re-aggrivated existing injuries while training. Something amiss there? Add to that the Johnson, Agger injuries on Saturday and we've just been smashed in the last week or so.

Rapidly losing interest on the playing front now, especailly after that excremental performance on the weekend. A European place is all but gone.

I'm more interested in the actions of FSG now. Will they give Kenny a contract? How much cash are they prepared to splash in the summer?

 

[ShearMagic9]

Carroll will never be a good targetman.

He doesn't have the skillset or application, and it's not something you can just learn.

Shola Ameobi is a limited footballer - but he's what I'd consider a targetman. Holds the ball up well at his feet, draws fouls when there's nobody around him, uses the ball well (and is good in the air).

Carroll is a completely different type of player and people have to realise that. Just because he's big it doesn't mean he is, or ever will be a good targetman.