Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[Coach_Required]

This isn't a go at Cripps, congrats to him for a great year, so Blues fans don't see this as a go at him. However, the Brownlow is an absolute farce, the whole prestige of the award has lost its shine and it's because the AFL have let it get this way.

Shame on the AFL for letting its standards drop so far, this doesn't surprise me considering how hard they like to sweep poor umpiring standards under the rug and promote their propaganda how the game has never been better BS.

 

[Ted Potter]

Fair points that the system has been flawed forever. I guess we used to respect the umps abut more so we respected their decisions.

No we have always hated umps. It is just that the winners of the distant past have no one around to tell you how bad the umps were and how rigged or flawed the voting was.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I said it last night but Nick Daicos polled 2 Brownlow votes in Round 22 against Sydney when statistically (using SuperCoach anyway) he was the 28th best player on the field.

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Supercoach is fantasy land makey-uppy, topsey-turvey rubbish.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

This isn't a go at Cripps, congrats to him for a great year, so Blues fans don't see this as a go at him. However, the Brownlow is an absolute farce, the whole prestige of the award has lost its shine and it's because the AFL have let it get this way.

Shame on the AFL for letting its standards drop so far, this doesn't surprise me considering how hard they like to sweep poor umpiring standards under the rug and promote their propaganda how the game has never been better BS.

AFL Coaches Votes top 10:

Daicos, Cripps, Heeney, Serong, Neale, Bontempelli, Gulden, Merrett, Warner, Butters

Brownlow top 10:

Cripps, Daicos, Butters, Serong, Heeney, Green, Treloar, Gulden, Rowell

Pretty close.

 

[Coach_Required]

AFL Coaches Votes top 10:

Daicos, Cripps, Heeney, Serong, Neale, Bontempelli, Gulden, Merrett, Warner, Butters

Brownlow top 10:

Cripps, Daicos, Butters, Serong, Heeney, Green, Treloar, Gulden, Rowell

Pretty close.

So out of 19 "names" 7 are completely different and you think that's pretty close? LOL

 

[BF Tiger]

Brownlow is broken.

This is IMHO another impact of expansion. Too many ordinary players on any one team, so the superstar shines even brighter because he can’t be stopped by the too many ordinary players on the opposing team whose job it is while hopefully their superstar shines.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

AFL Coaches Votes top 10:

Daicos, Cripps, Heeney, Serong, Neale, Bontempelli, Gulden, Merrett, Warner, Butters

Brownlow top 10:

Cripps, Daicos, Butters, Serong, Heeney, Green, Treloar, Gulden, Rowell

Pretty close.

Why should they be close?

Surely an umpire and a coach would ha e very different criteria for what constitutes being the 'best' player in the ground?

 

[Ted Potter]

Brownlow is broken.

This is IMHO another impact of expansion. Too many ordinary players on any one team, so the superstar shines even brighter because he can’t be stopped by the too many ordinary players on the opposing team whose job it is while hopefully their superstar shines.

That analysis would apply equally to all awards. So all awards are broken?

 

[btdg]

Clearly a superior method of awarding the medal would be to get Bigfooty posters to decide the votes, based purely on stats (not rewatching the game), 4-5 months after the fact. Or if they can't be bothered looking at the stats, we could just let the same set of Bigfooty posters decide who the winners should be, and how many votes is appropriate for them, based mostly on the 'vibe' of the thing, and not the actual games at all.

I mean, I think we all agree it is ok for Cripps to win, particularly if he beats Daicos (cos vibes - Daicos is a bit soft so second seems about right), but he should only be allowed to get 28-30 votes. Also Bont should win the award next year, regardless of his performance in actual matches, but because my vibe is that he's the best player in the competition and so it seems a bit strange he hasn't ever won the Brownlow.

 

[JackOutback]

No we have always hated umps. It is just that the winners of the distant past have no one around to tell you how bad the umps were and how rigged or flawed the voting was.

Greg Williams would happily give you a soundbite or three if you have his number.

 

[BF Tiger]

That analysis would apply equally to all awards. So all awards are broken?

Fair point. Is it magnified in the Brownlow because of the 3-2-1 voting system AND because the umpires are in the ground and the superstars are the ones they see up close most often?

 

[pressurepoint]

I've never read so much biased garbage.

Fact is the umpires rated Cripps, Daicos, Green, Butters, Heeney et all as the top players in the game last night. That was precisely everyone else's opinion.

The only anomaly between the umpires and the media/AFL community was perhaps Bont. He was thin on the ground this year but he also had a fair bit of competition from AA Treloar (and all of the other great players on their list).

The umpires vote after each game without looking at the stats. They are banned from having phones and they do it on their assessment on the day only. They have midfielders under their nose all day. They do not have Dunstalls and Locketts kicking bags of 10 goals anymore. They judge best and fairest, not who got the most touches or supercoach points.

Get over your Carlton bias. Accept the fact that on the 8th day, God made Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

29

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

.

You're all conditioned to the fact that there has been a player in the league that does what Cripps does every week for a 10 year period. If Harley Reid put out what Cripps put out week on week you all would be in overdrive.

You're taking Cripps for granted. He will be the best Carlton Football Club player that you will see in your lifetimes. He is about to take his 5th John Nicholls medal, which is a record, equalling only John Nicholls himself.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Bont has to win one in the next couple of years. I think Tom Green and Serong ride the wave of being in top 4/6 sides and poll very heavily.

JHF polls very well and obviously LDU will be on the up as well.

I thought the votes were about right. Cripps was the best player comfortably this year.

Nah, he'll be there abouts most years, regardless of where the Pies are at. He has nobody else to take votes off him.
He'll get 2-3 in every Pies win and 1-2 in a lot of losses as the best player from the losing side. Unless they're getting pumped by 40-50+, he'll poll.

 

[blueboy25]

It certainly needs a overhaul especially when the 2nd bottom team which won 3 games had 2 players get 18 and 15 votes respectively.

 

[Ted Potter]

Fact is the umpires rated Cripps, Daicos, Green, Butters, Heeney et all as the top players in the game last night. That was precisely everyone else's opinion.

Yep, I agree. Not sure why people think the Brownlow is broken anymore than any other year in its history.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Not really. Carltons next best was double Collingwoods next best.

And again, not really. Look at Sydney.

Team leaderboards like the Swans' are the exception, not the rule. 3 players in the top 11, all within 5 votes of each other and all 20+.
Most years, most teams have 2 players who gather well over 50% of the team's votes.

 

[joe444]

Has anyone ever taken an argument seriously when the person who writes ends with LOL?

The Brownlow's fine.

 

[QuietB]

AFL Coaches Votes top 10:

Daicos, Cripps, Heeney, Serong, Neale, Bontempelli, Gulden, Merrett, Warner, Butters

Brownlow top 10:

Cripps, Daicos, Butters, Serong, Heeney, Green, Treloar, Gulden, Rowell

Pretty close.

Agree that the results are similar, but Daicos won the coaches award with the equivalent of 11.7 BOG's (117 votes - 19 of these were 5 votes of less so maybe 98 votes or only 9.8 BOG's)

Cripps got the equivalent of 15 BOG's when there are only 3 players who get votes.

 

[Knight82]

An overhaul of the Brownlow goes hand in hand with an overhaul of the umpiring department in my opinion.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Dont think people are saying cripps aint a worth winner. The problem is how many votes he got (and daicos for that matter). It used to be that 25-30 votes would win a brownlow. 45 is just silly. He did not dominate the season like that.

The problem is people equating record votes to record year.
It doesn't mean that.
Cripps polled 29 votes when he won in 2022 (and played 3 less games). Walsh polled 30 in 2021 when he came equal 4th.
The votes from one year to the next are simply not comparable in any way.

Before it was 25-30 that would win it, you could win it with 20-25 votes. Players have won it with sub 20 votes.

So this year Cripps polled 45 votes from 24 games (1.875 per game). In 1940, Herbie Matthews and Des Fothergill tied on 32 votes from 18 games (1.778 per game). Not much of a difference.

 

[Breretonisahood]

If you were an alien visiting from Planet 9 and wanted to know about AFL, the Brownlow leaderboard would suggest there are 2 really good players, about 12-15 OK players and about 400 spuds

 

[Norwegian Blue]

I've never read so much biased garbage.

Fact is the umpires rated Cripps, Daicos, Green, Butters, Heeney et all as the top players in the game last night. That was precisely everyone else's opinion.

It was everyone else's opinion because everyone knows how flawed the Brownlow is. For example, I'd rate Jacob Weitering as our second-best player, after Crippa. But because he's a defender he got zero votes.

 

[Seeds]

The problem is people equating record votes to record year.
It doesn't mean that.
Cripps polled 29 votes when he won in 2022 (and played 3 less games). Walsh polled 30 in 2021 when he came equal 4th.
The votes from one year to the next are simply not comparable in any way.

Before it was 25-30 that would win it, you could win it with 20-25 votes. Players have won it with sub 20 votes.

So this year Cripps polled 45 votes from 24 games (1.875 per game). In 1940, Herbie Matthews and Des Fothergill tied on 32 votes from 18 games (1.778 per game). Not much of a difference.

You dont provide a reason in your post why votes should not be comparable across years. What is your reason?

If they arent comparable across years then are they also not comparable across clubs? And if they arent comparable across clubs then the brownlow is nonsense.

 

[JackOutback]

The problem is people equating record votes to record year.
It doesn't mean that.
Cripps polled 29 votes when he won in 2022 (and played 3 less games). Walsh polled 30 in 2021 when he came equal 4th.
The votes from one year to the next are simply not comparable in any way.

Before it was 25-30 that would win it, you could win it with 20-25 votes. Players have won it with sub 20 votes.

So this year Cripps polled 45 votes from 24 games (1.875 per game). In 1940, Herbie Matthews and Des Fothergill tied on 32 votes from 18 games (1.778 per game). Not much of a difference.

People raise the vote count because it's becoming obvious that umpires are focusing their attention on fewer and fewer players and just sending the votes their way more often. This year isn't an anomaly, it's part of a trend (I would suggest 1940, on the other hand, was an anomaly). The umpires are star struck.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

So out of 19 "names" 7 are completely different and you think that's pretty close? LOL

Out of a possible 600 or so options, yes I would say that the list sharing over 50% of the same players, including the top 2 being top 2 in both metrics is pretty representative.

Plus in the context of the whining of "the Brownlow doesn't reflect forwards or defenders enough" the entirety of the top 10 in both lists are midfielders so it seems like Coaches too think they are the most influential players. Maybe the Brownlow isn't so flawed.