Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[DangerousD]

The early days of any given set of communication or trade relationship leave themselves open to exploitation. The Danger 'trade' was 5 years ago now, and this kind of thing is done differently.

While clubs cannot hope to get overs in the way that used to encourage players to stay put, as the trade itself caused the club inquiring to bleed to obtain their man (the way things were done pre FA) players do not usually want their main club to be ruined by their leaving. If Cripps chooses to leave, I cannot see him seeking the trade to be for outrageous unders, and the compo formula is already under question; we would need to get something we are willing to take for him, or we match whatever bid is made (provided our list management is smart, and has maneuvered us on a position to do so).

Basically, if the position from the club is that pick x is not enough (band 1 compo after our first round pick; if we're bottom six when he decides to leave, picks 1-6) then we inform the opposition club that we are willing to match unless they provide another option; a lopsided trade in our favour, to go with the compensation, for example. The AFL have a tendency to avoid rocking the boat, there's every chance that they would allow something like that through.

This is reliant on the AFL to encourage shenanigans (or, if not encourage, condone it) and Cripps being willing to play along so long as he gets to where he wants to go.

On a somewhat seperate note but related, will we get to a time in AFL, where the p,Ayer leaving, wants his new club to give up as little as possible to further enhance his new clubs chances of success?

I think there’s going to be changes to the FA system, the matching bid idea won’t last, just my opinion. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s this year when Essendon demand massive overs for Danniher, who will claim Essendon are blocking his movement, causing a change.

 

[Gethelred]

On a somewhat seperate note but related, will we get to a time in AFL, where the p,Ayer leaving, wants his new club to give up as little as possible to further enhance his new clubs chances of success?

I think there’s going to be changes to the FA system, the matching bid idea won’t last, just my opinion. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s this year when Essendon demand massive overs for Danniher, who will claim Essendon are blocking his movement, causing a change.

They've already got arbitration, and if Daniher, Essendon and Sydney cannot come to some form of agreement, he walks to the draft or the PSD (provided they don't scrap the PSD). There's no whip hand at Essendon's end, and it becomes a similar situation to Jack Martin.

It'd take that sort of thing from Cripps to make it happen. I don't see our relationship with Cripps deteriorating to that extent before 2021, albeit with nothing to base that on beyond a general desire to avoid castrophising.

 

[Gethelred]

I also can't see the AFL in a new environment being interested at all in the PA trying to railroad them into redoing what will be an inflated agreement by the end of all the current bullshit. If anything, the AFL will try to tighten the rules in each way, in order to keep some sense of stability and security for clubs.

 

[DangerousD]

They've already got arbitration, and if Daniher, Essendon and Sydney cannot come to some form of agreement, he walks to the draft or the PSD (provided they don't scrap the PSD). There's no whip hand at Essendon's end, and it becomes a similar situation to Jack Martin.

It'd take that sort of thing from Cripps to make it happen. I don't see our relationship with Cripps deteriorating to that extent before 2021, albeit with nothing to base that on beyond a general desire to avoid castrophising.

The Cripps stuff is just purely a what if, im not really concerned about him leaving, as long as we are climbing the ladder, there is no chance he would leave. If he was to leave, the club would have really stuffed things up.

 

[BlueAbroad]

A trip down memory lane - what exactly happened in 2011?

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[Gethelred]

Rewatching our round 5 game vs the Dogs.

Gee, SPS getting 30 odd cleans us up. I'd love it if he could do it every week, but I'd settle for him doing it every second game. He knows where the ball should be before he even takes possession.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[thylacine60]

Rewatching our round 5 game vs the Dogs.

Gee, SPS getting 30 odd cleans us up. I'd love it if he could do it every week, but I'd settle for him doing it every second game. He knows where the ball should be before he even takes possession.

still want more from him and infuriatingly I'm not even sure what that is.........something something........

 

[Gethelred]

still want more from him and infuriatingly I'm not even sure what that is.........something something........

I know what I want to see from him. Not once in a Carlton jumper have I ever seen him make a second effort.

In his first two seasons, I could understand; he's a one touch player, and he lacked the fitness to go more than once in a play. And it could be that this was the year he'd have exploded, but AFL's a game built on people refusing to concede that because they failed to get the pill on the first try that they wouldn't on the second.

Sure, he's usually good enough to know where the ball is and to get there and get it. I'm a colossal fan of his. But desperation of the kind Jack Silvagni demonstrates, a blatant reckless blunt refusal to allow the opponent the easy ball or to concede possession is something I've never seen from him.

 

[thylacine60]

that'll do it......

 

[1981]

What did we all think of Caro's comments? I think Gerard got it right. The spine is good but we need some more quality mids.

 

[Coops93]

What did we all think of Caro's comments? I think Gerard got it right. The spine is good but we need some more quality mids.

She isn't far off though probably went harder than she needed to.

The spine is good, but we have absolutely failed to find midfielders - either in the draft or at the trade/free agency table. It's what's holding us back.

 

[Lace_Out]

We need big bodied midfielders, around the 190cm mark, a couple with explosive pace and A grade skills would set us up big time.. Judd would be a perfect fit right now..

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[SurreyBlue]

I call hogwash to the ‘we haven’t drafted mids’ discussion.
Outside of Cripps we have;
Drafted Cuningham, SPS, Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Polson, Walsh, Stocker, Philip, Ramsey and Honey.
Traded in Kennedy and Setterfiled - neither one was a ready made midfielder at the time of trade though!
That’s not counting Gibbons, Lang, Martin, etc.

It’s not that we haven’t drafted, it’s that they are still developing due to setting the plan with a long term goal of taking KP first. Young men need time and KP take longer. Not that hard to understand. Add that with a total list turnover and lose of experience and leadership through all parts of the ground, this was always now going to be the painful part. Can’t expect 2 and 3 year kids in the system to take on men, week in week out and win.
Yes, if we are truly honest, the area we failed was free agent trading, but even then, players don’t come to underperforming teams!!! Free agents want success overnight to complete their careers! We can’t and couldn’t sell that. We knew that when we rolled the dice, yet many wanted us to action this process. I’m still angry with the AFL’s interference last year and our offield leadership being weak at fighting hard in this area but that for another day.

I also hope I don’t see the same supporters (although I already doubt this) that wanted the rebuild/reset squealing like little kids now. Especially when it comes to our youngsters injuries, due to them being smashed early on in their careers!! Hopefully our kids mature quickly and stay fit from here, as it will be heartbreaking to say ‘I told you so’ and probably do me in for good.

 

[Coops93]

I call hogwash to the ‘we haven’t drafted mids’ discussion.
Outside of Cripps we have;
Drafted Cuningham, SPS, Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Polson, Walsh, Stocker, Philip, Ramsey and Honey.
Traded in Kennedy and Setterfiled - neither one was a ready made midfielder at the time of trade though!
That’s not counting Gibbons, Lang, Martin, etc.

It’s not that we haven’t drafted, it’s that they are still developing due to setting the plan with a long term goal of taking KP first. Young men need time and KP take longer. Not that hard to understand. Add that with a total list turnover and lose of experience and leadership through all parts of the ground, this was always now going to be the painful part. Can’t expect 2 and 3 year kids in the system to take on men, week in week out and win.
Yes, if we are truly honest, the area we failed was free agent trading, but even then, players don’t come to underperforming teams!!! Free agents want success overnight to complete their careers! We can’t and couldn’t sell that. We knew that when we rolled the dice, yet many wanted us to action this process. I’m still angry with the AFL’s interference last year and our offield leadership being weak at fighting hard in this area but that for another day.

I also hope I don’t see the same supporters (although I already doubt this) that wanted the rebuild/reset squealing like little kids now. Especially when it comes to our youngsters injuries, due to them being smashed early on in their careers!! Hopefully our kids mature quickly and stay fit from here, as it will be heartbreaking to say ‘I told you so’ and probably do me in for good.

The problem is all the mids we've drafted, aside from Walsh, have turned out to be long term projects or aren't the type of midfielder we actually need.

Dow isn't ready
SPS has moved to HB
Cuningham has moved forward
Stock was drafted specifically as a longer term project
Setterfield was coming of a serious injury
O'Brien is a wingman - Fisher is probably more a wingman as well

It's not to say they won't be good players, but SPS, Cuningham, O'Brien and Fisher aren't the kind of player we really need right now to help Cripps and replace Murphy and Curnow long term.

The players are out there - The likes of Worpel who was pick 40+ and is a BnF winner inside of 50 games. So guys who can come in and help right away are out there, we just haven't picked them. We seem to only pick guys who are going to take several years of development before we even start to see a return. Finding a bnf winner at that point is very rare and I'm not suggesting we need to find that level of output right away, but just someone who can come in and contribute positively would be a good start.

It's a rather bleak outlook I know, but we have to get real here. We're at a serious risk of blowing Cripps' prime just like we did with Judd. Murphy and Curnow are still essential players to our on ball brigade and they're both the other side of 30.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[Mick F]

How did you know he was a Tigers supporter? Great pick up!! His grandfather Len Smith coached them back in the 60's so he was brainwashed at an early age.

When we were little kids he wore a Richmond jumper with #29 on the back....ironically his first senior game as a 17yo was an Escort Cup game on a cold Tuesday night, against Richmond. Yep, played back pocket on KB in his first game.

I had a Carlton jumper with #25 on the back....and my first senior game was on....oh, hang on

The 34-year-old Jesaulenko was among the best on ground for the Saints that day, finishing with 27 disposals and eight high-flying marks.

 

[BlueAbroad]

 

[Stamos]

A few weeks ago, Eddie Betts ran a competition on Instagram for trick shots, to keep kids entertained while in isolation.
He put up a pair of his boots as the prize.
The response was so overwhelming (I think particularly from relieved parents) that he extended the competition and put up another two pairs of boots as prizes!

My nephew who is 7 came third by kicking a footy into a basketball ring, and a pair of Eddie's boots with a personalised signature arrived today.
He is absolutely over the moon!

What a legend Eddie is!

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

How much truth is there to Carlton owning part of north Melbourne in the late 80s???

 

[thylacine60]

elliot wanted to buy them.............make what you will of this:

Premiership put an end to merger talk: Elliott

Former Carlton president John Elliott says it was only the success of Carlton that scuppered merger bids with St Kilda and North Melbourne in the 1990s.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Accidental genius]

read somewhere some years ago that we owned 40% of kangaroos.

 

[DangerousD]

read somewhere some years ago that we owned 40% of kangaroos.

From Wikipedia

In 1991, the John Elliott-led Carlton Football Club attempted a hostile take over North Melbourne by purchasing a large parcel of shares formerly owned by Bob Ansett. The Blues acquired 20 per cent of the capital but that stake was eventually bought back by John Magowan, the former head of Merrill Lynch Australia, in 2001.

 

[DangerousD]

I call hogwash to the ‘we haven’t drafted mids’ discussion.
Outside of Cripps we have;
Drafted Cuningham, SPS, Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Polson, Walsh, Stocker, Philip, Ramsey and Honey.
Traded in Kennedy and Setterfiled - neither one was a ready made midfielder at the time of trade though!
That’s not counting Gibbons, Lang, Martin, etc.

Are you referring to the Caroline Wilson article regarding our need for mids?
I look at the list above and whilst its possible a lot were drafted as mids, other than Walsh, i can't say with any certainty that any of the others will make it as midfielders, let alone AFL players.

A few of the guys you mentioned, will be lucky to be on our list next season if list sizes are cut.

Injuries aside, the KPP we have added the last few years, look like to have bright futures and as you say taels take longer, which is why our failure to lure some quality senior players the last few seasons, has really hurt us and the trading in of Kennedy and Setterfield hasn't been what was expected, im still hopeful on Setters but unfortunately i think Kennedy will struggle.

Its hard to convince senior players to come to rebuilding clubs but bottom teams in the past, have always been able to add decent players, i just don't think we were prepared to cough up the $$$$ required.

 

[The Ian PrenderCast]

Evening all,

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