Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[The Ian PrenderCast]

Join us from 7:30pm as we chat the big issues down Royal Parade and our most significant moments of of the AFL era.

You'll be able to join in via text and - maybe - phone in (we're working on some kinks).

Stream available via: here

 

[Opine]

What did we all think of Caro's comments? I think Gerard got it right. The spine is good but we need some more quality mids.

She's as outdated in her views as Thigh is in it's views. Both should be retired; immediately.

 

[agro]

What did we all think of Caro's comments? I think Gerard got it right. The spine is good but we need some more quality mids.

Correct, unless some of the younger mids like, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Dow, O’Brien and Stocker can step up consistently to fill the shoes of Murphy and Ed Curnow in the next year we are going to be in trouble unless we can find others to assist Patrick Cripps.

 

[Accidental genius]

being injured when he came across is a valid excuse but by next season setters needs to step up and become a dominant midfielder. he has the body (bit more weight would be good) and skills.

 

[Gethelred]

Correct, unless some of the younger mids like, SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Dow, O’Brien and Stocker can step up consistently to fill the shoes of Murphy and Ed Curnow in the next year we are going to be in trouble unless we can find others to assist Patrick Cripps.

Perhaps the idea was that your SPP, Worpels are available most years, and over the next few years we were going to phase them in, forcing competition for the developed and more skillful players (SPS, Fisher, Cuningham, Setterfield, Dow, O'brien).

In any case, we need a significant step up across the midfield group. We cannot have as a requirement for us to win being Cripps getting 30+ and 4 goals; he's a very good player and is well capable of doing so, but relying on him to do so is different than allowing that kind of performance being superfluous to the overall game.

I'd live for the day in which an effort like that from Cripps gets us to a 10 goal win, and a down Cripps only has us winning by 20.

 

[agro]

Perhaps the idea was that your SPP, Worpels are available most years, and over the next few years we were going to phase them in, forcing competition for the developed and more skillful players (SPS, Fisher, Cuningham, Setterfield, Dow, O'brien).

In any case, we need a significant step up across the midfield group. We cannot have as a requirement for us to win being Cripps getting 30+ and 4 goals; he's a very good player and is well capable of doing so, but relying on him to do so is different than allowing that kind of performance being superfluous to the overall game.

I'd live for the day in which an effort like that from Cripps gets us to a 10 goal win, and a down Cripps only has us winning by 20.

I have high hopes for Tom De Koning however at the time I thought the more logical selection for us at pick 30 would have been either Constable or Worpel.

 

[thylacine60]

good to see us playing the drafting long suit with tdk..........

 

[Gethelred]

I have high hopes for Tom De Koning however at the time I thought the more logical selection for us at pick 30 would have been either Constable or Worpel.

I still want us to manufacture a way to get Constable onto our list. He's got every chance to be yet another KPP size 30+ inside mid capable of resting forward.

Didn't think that much of Worpel in his debut year, and I think he's just another one of the players that Al Clarkson has taken from being good at one thing and fit into a role so precisely suited to him that he looks like a worldbeater.

 

[Jeremias]

being injured when he came across is a valid excuse but by next season setters needs to step up and become a dominant midfielder. he has the body (bit more weight would be good) and skills.

By the time next season comes around he probably won't have 40 senior games under his belt.

Expect a lift in performances (as we can for this season if there is one) but expecting him to be a dominant midfielder is a serious stretch.

 

[Accidental genius]

By the time next season comes around he probably won't have 40 senior games under his belt.

Expect a lift in performances (as we can for this season if there is one) but expecting him to be a dominant midfielder is a serious stretch.

dont think he is all that far off.... the main problem i see with him is he is not going in as hard as he could (no urgency as another poster put it) ..which could be partially to do with not being completely over his injury and maybe not having enough size. so im basing it off the fact that this break gives him the opportunity to heel and work on his body. he doesn't have to burst onto the field in his first game back and dominate like cripps does. over the course of the year we start footy i think he will work into becoming dominant.

 

[Gethelred]

dont think he is all that far off.... the main problem i see with him is he is not going in as hard as he could (no urgency as another poster put it) ..which could be partially to do with not being completely over his injury and maybe not having enough size. so im basing it off the fact that this break gives him the opportunity to heel and work on his body. he doesn't have to burst onto the field in his first game back and dominate like cripps does. over the course of the year we start footy i think he will work into becoming dominant.

With all due respect, I do not see anything resembling an adequate level of desire in Setterfield.

He's taller, stronger, more balanced, better able to read the play than almost every player he takes the field alongside. He can hold onto the ball just that second and a half longer, dispose of it just that bit quicker than most, and can read things that inch faster. It sounds odd to say it, but he actually reminds me of the movie Gattica, in that he has all of the genetic catering towards being excellent to best in the AFL as a footballer, but because it has come that easy and he was always destined for it the setbacks of his injuries left him a bit crestfallen. Footy's a sport in which your will to continue trumps your talent by any margin; you cannot always overcome the limits of your body, but within acceptable boundaries, your determination can set you apart.

Setterfield can come through this as a good player, but for him to become a great one he needs to (re)discover that sense not of mongrel, but of feeling as though he is coming second in a race he wants to win. It is in how he chooses to react to that that will determine how far he comes.

 

[Accidental genius]

With all due respect, I do not see anything resembling an adequate level of desire in Setterfield.

He's taller, stronger, more balanced, better able to read the play than almost every player he takes the field alongside. He can hold onto the ball just that second and a half longer, dispose of it just that bit quicker than most, and can read things that inch faster. It sounds odd to say it, but he actually reminds me of the movie Gattica, in that he has all of the genetic catering towards being excellent to best in the AFL as a footballer, but because it has come that easy and he was always destined for it the setbacks of his injuries left him a bit castfallen. Footy's a sport in which your will to continue trumps your talent by any margin; you cannot always overcome the limits of your body, but within acceptable boundaries, your determination can set you apart.

Setterfield can come through this as a good player, but for him to become a great one he needs to (re)discover that sense not of mongrel, but of feeling as though he is coming second in a race he wants to win. It is in how he chooses to react to that that will determine how far he comes.

are these that dissimilar?

 

[Gethelred]

are these that dissimilar?

Mongrel is too diffuse a term, IMO. Some see it as the willingness to hurt someone, others (myself included) see it as an unwillingness to lose from any position and a refusal to recognise that you are beaten.

He doesn't need a willingness to hurt people to be a good player, given how good he could be with ball in hand and how he already seems to relish laying a hard tackle. And that's the funny thing about it, IMO; he's got the right mindset towards opposition with the ball rather than getting the ball itself. But we don't need a tackler, funnily enough. While we need to lay more tackles a game than we do, we actually need more players getting more of the ball across the board, on the spread and in tight. He could be both or either, but right now there's a chance he could just be another flanker. With his attributes, that'd be a shame.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I call hogwash to the ‘we haven’t drafted mids’ discussion.
Outside of Cripps we have;
Drafted Cuningham, SPS, Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Polson, Walsh, Stocker, Philip, Ramsey and Honey.
Traded in Kennedy and Setterfiled - neither one was a ready made midfielder at the time of trade though!
That’s not counting Gibbons, Lang, Martin, etc.

It’s not that we haven’t drafted, it’s that they are still developing due to setting the plan with a long term goal of taking KP first. Young men need time and KP take longer. Not that hard to understand. Add that with a total list turnover and lose of experience and leadership through all parts of the ground, this was always now going to be the painful part. Can’t expect 2 and 3 year kids in the system to take on men, week in week out and win.
Yes, if we are truly honest, the area we failed was free agent trading, but even then, players don’t come to underperforming teams!!! Free agents want success overnight to complete their careers! We can’t and couldn’t sell that. We knew that when we rolled the dice, yet many wanted us to action this process. I’m still angry with the AFL’s interference last year and our offield leadership being weak at fighting hard in this area but that for another day.

I also hope I don’t see the same supporters (although I already doubt this) that wanted the rebuild/reset squealing like little kids now. Especially when it comes to our youngsters injuries, due to them being smashed early on in their careers!! Hopefully our kids mature quickly and stay fit from here, as it will be heartbreaking to say ‘I told you so’ and probably do me in for good.

Agree totally...People forget pretty quickly how long most players take too develop, you look back on all the strong teams of the recent past Hawks Cats Saints Pies Swans all their youngsters all took 4,5,6 years to play and compete at a high level consistently... Look how long it took Richmond’s top end talent, it takes time one thing that certainly helps young players development is being surrounded by great players in greatly run clubs... I’m very bullish on our up and coming midfielders Walsh Dow Petrevski Setterfield Fisher Cuningham Stocker with Martin cameos then Kemp and Philp coming through as well... complete rebuild and limited depth in all areas is always going to take time .. Caro’s backhander lacks substance and foresight...

 

[Jeremias]

I don't buy the argument that Setterfield doesn't want to win.

Every footballer wants to win. Some may show it more than others, but the vast majority are competitive beasts. And that rings true even if they're not inside bulls or kamikaze in their effort.

Setterfield is pretty much a clone of a young David Mundy. Mundy - an excellent footballer - but not someone who springs to mind as having maniacal attack on man or ball nor a contested footy beast.

He's a very well balanced inside/outside footballer, good in traffic, smooth mover and flexible. And that's exactly what Setterfield looks to me.

I think anyone expecting Setterfield to develop into an inside bull needs to reevaluate. That's not his game, and it certainly doesn't have to be for him to be a very good footballer over the journey.

 

[The Ian PrenderCast]

Whilst waiting for Round 2, how about a couple of all-time twenty-twos?

Odds vs Evens, Fab vs Tim, stars on every line and a frivolous (yet fun) battle for the ages.

Have a listen via the links in our signature and let us know who got it right, who got it wrong and who you got.

 

[Accidental genius]

Garry Lyon (dipstick) asks tim Watson if Carlton should consider trading Curnow and then answers his own question..

“I’m not sure that you’d be thinking about trading Charlie Curnow,” the former Demons captain said.

And Ben Cotton writes an article on it.

Amazing stuff...

 

[Gethelred]

Garry Lyon (dipstick) asks tim Watson if Carlton should consider trading Curnow and then answers his own question..

“I’m not sure that you’d be thinking about trading Charlie Curnow,” the former Demons captain said.

And Ben Cotton writes an article on it.

Amazing stuff...

More getting their rumours from BF posts again.

 

[ferrisb]

AFL journos talk smack to fill the airwaves and column space when there's actual footy happening.

When there's no footy, the void expands and gets filled with more drivel and waffle....

 

[footyfan1978]

AFL journos talk smack to fill the airwaves and column space when there's actual footy happening.

When there's no footy, the void expands and gets filled with more drivel and waffle....

I'm just stunned Tom Browne still has a job. His Dad has a lot to answer for.

 

[Jabba73]

AFL journos talk smack to fill the airwaves and column space when there's actual footy happening.

When there's no footy, the void expands and gets filled with more drivel and waffle....

We are in the equivalent of Trade Radio on day 3 of nothing happening

 

[Robbo's my hero]

AFL journos talk smack to fill the airwaves and column space when there's actual footy happening.

When there's no footy, the void expands and gets filled with more drivel and waffle....

Just like Big Footy.

 

[thylacine60]

We are in the equivalent of Trade Radio on day 3 of nothing happening

But do I blame C19 or Dorito?

 

[thylacine60]

Eddie Betts regrets not helping Adam Goodes 'enough' during racist booing saga

The livewire forward feels guilty about how AFL great Adam Goodes was driven out of the game, which is why he wants young Indigenous Australian players to call out racism.

mobile.abc.net.au

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Incidentally his books are great for anyone with young kids.