BIG MATTY WHITE
Premiership Player
This thread made me really appreciate what matty primus did for this club...
He did much more then we give him credit for
He did much more then we give him credit for
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Mitchell I've become resigned to. Once Amon or Flynn has their tank up to speed he'll go out for one of them. They'll provide running, plus speed (Mitchell isn't that fast), plus aren't so contact adverse. Especially Flynn. When we can replace Kornes and Mitchell with fast guys with decent (if not as good as those two) tanks, then it'll be a lot harder to shut down our spread and run.I was more talking about afl rawness not position
Isnt that the excuse?
I like impey he does some real good things and can see why we picked him....but at times he has been caught way out of his depth but....I am happy hinkley rolled the dice on him and he will be better for it....
Just roll the dice hinks is all I am asking ...if they fail they fail...
The best argument is that we won mot of those games.As I've said plenty of times on this board, if someone wants to make the argument that the selection of Sam Gray over Butcher in round 4, and the subsequent selections of Gray and Mitchell since was the right decision in 2014 and going forward, I'd love to hear that argument.
Butcher would have been a better selection on so many levels.
The coaches made a bad call.
kornes will be replace by the hoon who will be kane 2.0Mitchell I've become resigned to. Once Amon or Flynn has their tank up to speed he'll go out for one of them. They'll provide running, plus speed (Mitchell isn't that fast), plus aren't so contact adverse. Especially Flynn. When we can replace Kornes and Mitchell with fast guys with decent (if not as good as those two) tanks, then it'll be a lot harder to shut down our spread and run.
The best argument is that we won mot of those games.
The best argument is that we won mot of those games.
You can't say that. The only thing that is absolute is that we won them without him.No, that's the worst argument.
We would have won most of those games anyway. The 22nd picked player in our side was not the driving force behind winning. We'd have won all of the games we won with Butcher in place of Gray or Mitchell, and we'd have won the Essendon and Collingwood games as well. Possibly even the first Sydney game.
You can't say that. The only thing that is absolute is that we won them without him.
Yeah i'll agree that O'Shea replaced Butcher in round 4.
My argument is that the 22nd picked player in the side could have been replaced by Butcher for quite a significant net gain over the course of the season.
Grey or Mitchell (or both) played in rounds 4,5,6,8,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17 and 20. Round 9 was a bye.
If we'd played him all the way through, we wouldn't have had to bring Paul Stewart in as a psuedo KPF in round 18 and 19 as we'd have already had KPF cover.
I couldn't find someone who Butcher should have been selected ahead of in round 7 or 21. Every other round we should have selected him, and I called for his selection in every selection thread in that time.
The best players are what they are and shouldn't necessarily line up with selection, given not everybody in the team plays the same position. Butcher kicked 2 bags of 5 early on and was averaging 3+ goals at SANFL level for something like 13 weeks before his recent dip in form. He was kicking multiple goals and contributing week in week out. I'd love to see to see a graph showing how often someone kicks 5 goals and isn't named in the best. I'd imagine it's not often.
If we can't talk in hypotheticals then we may as well close down the entire forum m80.
We won them without Gary Ablett in our side as well, but i'm pretty sure he'd be a handy inclusion.
Look i'm happy for you to argue individual games if you like. Tell me which games we'd have lost with Butcher in the side ahead of Mitchell or Gray and if you make a compelling argument i'm happy to concede the point.
I agree in principle that we should be using our 21st selected player to develop a much needed key forward. I agree that KPP players should be afforded more leeway in their performances given they play a very difficult position. What I don't agree with is that Butcher should be given the equivalent of a gold pass to gain AFL experience when he hasn't earned it. We should be playing Butcher so that he gains AFL experience but it's a 2 way street and for whatever reason, he hasn't done enough to earn that privilege. Butcher was kicking a lot of goals at SANFL level - going on reports from posters here, many of those goals were cheapies from the goal square and he didn't kick many lead-up goals which should be the bread and butter of key position forwards.
I know AFL selection isn't based on whether you're named in the best players at SANFL level but it does give us supporters some idea of who would be in the frame for AFL selection. That Butcher hasn't registered in the best even once and was the only AFL listed player with such a stat was a surprise to me. Outside of his raw numbers and lack of bests, there may be other reasons keeping him out of the AFL team - work-rate, playing to structure, 2nd/3rd efforts, pressure acts and so on. We're effectively running an AFL system in the SANFL, so development wise it appears many of his needs are being met. While it isn't a substitute for AFL experience, I would hazard a guess that Butcher has some very clear performance targets that he would need to meet at SANFL level to even be considered for AFL duties. He's been listed as an emergency only twice since the Brisbane game so that would seem to indicate that he hasn't quite met those performance targets all year.
Talk in hypotheticals when there is no other evidence to the contrary by all means. The game we have lost are fair game for that, but when the aim is to win a game of football and select the correct side to do so has been successful, its a bit of a dead end debate wise.
And for the record, I believe we have desperately needed another tall the pbast few weeks as we lost our run and had no one to aim for far too often.
It surprised me as well, because he's been much, much better than Harvey in every game i've seen them both play (which admittedly is not every game). I'm pretty shocked he didn't get in the bests with either of his bags of 5 or any of the subsequent bags of 3, and it pretty clearly shows that they aren't going to give him anything cheaply. Maybe they feel tough love and having a higher expectation of him is what will drive him to succeed, but as I said earlier, I can't think of too many times an SANFL player would kick 5 goals and be left out of the bests.
Just a wild opinion but
Hombsch should be our 3rd tall....kind of like adam hunter
Only when jackson is in the side
This was a light bulb above the head moment for me as it clicked that the reason you never see him take many grabs anymore is because he over-leads too much. Cant judge the ball, is forced to double back and try and run onto it instead. We've all commented on that in his AFL games over the last 12 months and I reckon that happened 15 times today. So either everyone he plays with all the time cant kick to the lead, or hes going out too fast and working himself into a poor position.
westhoff has been roaming around aimlessly all year, always plays his best footy when he is a key target up forward, i would like to see the hoff play solely up forward.I wouldnt mind swinging a backmen up forward....
Hombsch trengove take your pick .....take westhoff out let him rome...
As an extra sidenot.... keep kraks playing fwd of centre he made things happen
westhoff has been roaming around aimlessly all year, always plays his best footy when he is a key target up forward, i would like to see the hoff play solely up forward.
knowing the way port panic at every chance he will always go back behind the ball, just think he is a tough match up for opposition teams up forward. he is at his best when he hits the scoreboard.I don't think solely up forward is a good idea, he showed during the Primus years, during Schulz's injury absences, he doesn't have what it takes to be a number 1 full time target at FF. He should at least be spending 2/3 of his time as a forward though, with the rest as loose back. Midfield time should be an absolute minimum.
during the primus years we could have had tim evans, scott hodges, plugger and dunstall up forward and still struggled to kick a decent score with the way they moved the ball back then.I don't think solely up forward is a good idea, he showed during the Primus years, during Schulz's injury absences, he doesn't have what it takes to be a number 1 full time target at FF. He should at least be spending 2/3 of his time as a forward though, with the rest as loose back. Midfield time should be an absolute minimum.
during the primus years we could have had tim evans, scott hodges, plugger and dunstall up forward and still struggled to kick a decent score with the way they moved the ball back then.
westhoff has been roaming around aimlessly all year, always plays his best footy when he is a key target up forward, i would like to see the hoff play solely up forward.