Strategy The case for a third tall forward

[edgie]

Even Carlile showed more forward than Hombsch, that one time Buddha Hocking tried him at CHF vs Brisbane. If I never see Hombsch play forward again in my life, it will still be too much time spent forward.

 

[Lefti93]

westhoff has been roaming around aimlessly all year, always plays his best footy when he is a key target up forward, i would like to see the hoff play solely up forward.

yes, it's obvious every time he goes forward he looks so much more dangerous. geez ken

 

[Jonts]

We also look a sounder down back with him there

It's sad though we can't look sound down back and good up forward

Maybe with ryder?

 

[edgie]

The showdown was the best our forward line has looked all year. Hawks was good, but we had god mode on for half of them. Showdown was more methodical defend and attack structures. Schulz 5, Ryder 3, did Hoff kick any that day?

There is room for all 3, but Ken needs to be brave himself and not move Hoff after 5 minutes to pseudo wing back pocket thing.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Or, if he wants to use Westhoff in a back/wing role, do it and pick another full time forward

 

[edgie]

Or, if he wants to use Westhoff in a back/wing role, do it and pick another full time forward

IN: Sam Gray

 

[Lefti93]

The showdown was the best our forward line has looked all year. Hawks was good, but we had god mode on for half of them. Showdown was more methodical defend and attack structures. Schulz 5, Ryder 3, did Hoff kick any that day?

There is room for all 3, but Ken needs to be brace himself and not move Hoff after 5 minutes to pseudo wing back pocket thing.

hoff bagged 2 i think, northern again against kelly & then that bizarre overhead snap.

 

[Lefti93]

hoff bagged 2 i think, northern again against kelly & then that bizarre overhead snap.

it was southern actually.

 

[MarcusP2]

it was southern actually.

RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

 

[edgie]

hoff bagged 2 i think, northern again against kelly & then that bizarre overhead snap.

Well there ya go.

When you have 10 between your 3 big forwards, you'll win many more than you'll lose, and than by relying on Wingard and Gray to kicks bags when they aren't in the middle.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Some interesting thoughts in the podcast re playing a third tall for the rest of the year. I agree with the idea of blooding some young talent and think we are doing that well with Ah Chee, Clurey and Amon. Thought I would pose some questions, which I don't have an answer for but others might!

1) Can we play Lobbe, Ryder, Westhoff, Schulz and another tall?
2) If not, who comes out to play Butcher/Shaw/Harvey?
3) How can we get time into the Ryder/Lobbe partnership and blood a tall?
4) Is Harvey ready from a fitness point of view? Still seems slow and struggles to get to enough contests, but happy to hear others thoughts.
5) Further, will the ten games be detrimental to Harvey if he gets beaten regularly? Should he continue learning his craft in the SANFL this year and push for next year?
6) Will ten games change opinion on Butcher? Is it enough time to change his likely delisting? Does it make a difference him having played 24 or 34 games?
7) If Shaw is fit, should he be thrown in ahead of Butcher?
8) If Reddo is fit, does he get a run ahead of Butcher/Shaw? Or perhaps come in for Lobbe?
9) Does Trengove/Hombsch/Carlilie/Clurey have the potential up front and should they be moved there?

 

[edgie]

I think people are missing the point in other threads and discussions. Dropping Schulz and playing Harvey will not fix our forward line. Playing them both will be a step in the right direction.

 

[Long live PAFC]

I think people are missing the point in other threads and discussions. Dropping Schulz and playing Harvey will not fix our forward line. Playing them both will be a step in the right direction.

I agree that they should be played together and that KPFs need time to develop and have to be gifted games early on. I presume Lobbe would be the one coming out?

However, is Harvey genuinely ready? Is he fit enough? Looks thrashed in SANFL games. Does getting destroyed at AFL level hurt his development rather than streamline it? He has also been making steady progress at SANFL - is it good to interrupt this? Tactically - does he stay in the forward 50 and Schulz moves up the ground? What about the fact his defender would run off him all day?

If we were talking Shaw then absolutely throw him in there but sadly we can't. This has been a significant disappointment this year.

 

[edgie]

I agree that they should be played together and that KPFs need time to develop and have to be gifted games early on. I presume Lobbe would be the one coming out?

However, is Harvey genuinely ready? Is he fit enough? Looks thrashed in SANFL games. Does getting destroyed at AFL level hurt his development rather than streamline it? He has also been making steady progress at SANFL - is it good to interrupt this? Tactically - does he stay in the forward 50 and Schulz moves up the ground? What about the fact his defender would run off him all day?

If we were talking Shaw then absolutely throw him in there but sadly we can't. This has been a significant disappointment this year.

Butcher needed his second chance in 2014 alongside Schulz but didn't get it. Butcher needed to stay in ahead of Redden on round 2 but didn't. Butcher right now is the best fit and has the best AFL fitness

 

[raptalia]

Right now I would settle for another goal kicking forward, regardless of size, to go with Wingard. Schulz and Monfries are simply not kicking enough goals, some of that is form but some of it is down to the inability of our midfield to hit targets often enough.
I am not sure we need three tall forwards, an in form Schulz and one other tall would be fine. Ryder would have helped up forward but sadly he has been injured.

 

[Doctor Feel]

We need 1 goal a game and forward pressure from a young tall. Not much more. Does the club want every foward to kick 3 plus? If thats the ****ing case, monfries should be sacked. Regardless, the addition of another tall stay-at-home forward makes it more difficult to defend against schulz provided they time their leads well together.

I can't remember the last time we hit a tall forward on the lead. Seriously.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Right now I would settle for another goal kicking forward, regardless of size, to go with Wingard.

If only we had a sublimely skilled 27 year old who kicked 2 goals at AFL level against the best defensive team of the modern era last week available to add to the side. Oh well.

 

[Port01]

I can't remember the last time we hit a tall forward on the lead. Seriously.

Was less than 1 minute of game time ago , although it was a sideways boundary lead.

 

[edgie]

We need 1 goal a game and forward pressure from a young tall. Not much more. Does the club want every foward to kick 3 plus? If thats the ******* case, monfries should be sacked. Regardless, the addition of another tall stay-at-home forward makes it more difficult to defend against schulz provided they time their leads well together.

I can't remember the last time we hit a tall forward on the lead. Seriously.

Bobby to Schulz leading up the guts, last qtr, Bulldogs game.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Some interesting thoughts in the podcast re playing a third tall for the rest of the year. I agree with the idea of blooding some young talent and think we are doing that well with Ah Chee, Clurey and Amon. Thought I would pose some questions, which I don't have an answer for but others might!

1) Can we play Lobbe, Ryder, Westhoff, Schulz and another tall?
2) If not, who comes out to play Butcher/Shaw/Harvey?
3) How can we get time into the Ryder/Lobbe partnership and blood a tall?
4) Is Harvey ready from a fitness point of view? Still seems slow and struggles to get to enough contests, but happy to hear others thoughts.
5) Further, will the ten games be detrimental to Harvey if he gets beaten regularly? Should he continue learning his craft in the SANFL this year and push for next year?
6) Will ten games change opinion on Butcher? Is it enough time to change his likely delisting? Does it make a difference him having played 24 or 34 games?
7) If Shaw is fit, should he be thrown in ahead of Butcher?
8) If Reddo is fit, does he get a run ahead of Butcher/Shaw? Or perhaps come in for Lobbe?
9) Does Trengove/Hombsch/Carlilie/Clurey have the potential up front and should they be moved there?

1) No
2) no-one until at least rd 18 barring injuries. Missed our chance.
3) we can't force the issue now with them both back, it should have been done 3 weeks ago.
4) only seen him twice this year if he's that bad he could still play last 2-3 games of the season when all is lost.
5) no I don't think that would happen but he doesn't need 10 games, give him TWO see how it goes re-asses. Try all of them if we have to.
6) I don't know, regardless I would like him here next year even if it's just as a defender/emergency back up
7) personally yes, unless he puts in performances like his only two this year. Which were appalling. I'd play him first if all are equal form. I'd still play him if he even shows signs of form.
8) no
9) sort of/no/maybe/no I think Carlile would have the most instant impact. With 20 games I think Trengove could be better. Others are a flat no.

I wasn't disappointed with the non-selection this week although it was a different story a month ago. I think we have to play Ryder, Hoff, Schulz together for at least a few games yet they are our chance of a flag next year. We have to make a tough call late in the season or if any are carrying something though.

 

[edgie]

Because Hoff is in middle/back, and having blinder so good oh him, but because he is, Boak is our CHF forward right.

'carn.

 

[Dylan8]

Because Hoff is in middle/back, and having blinder so good oh him, but because he is, Boak is our CHF forward right.

'carn.

Harvey in! Lobbe out. Play the Padd man as the number 1 ruck and give Lobbe some time off to recover because he's clearly not all there physically. Harvey/Schulz to play as tall forwards, Harvey and Westhoff to give chop outs (because Trengove won't do that for some reason).

 

[Power Raid]

Harvey in! Lobbe out. Play the Padd man as the number 1 ruck and give Lobbe some time off to recover because he's clearly not all there physically. Harvey/Schulz to play as tall forwards, Harvey and Westhoff to give chop outs (because Trengove won't do that for some reason).

We all know Lobbe is a better player than what we are seeing. He must have something effecting his leap as he isn't getting up to the contest and he seems a little slower around the ground.

good call re harvey!

 

[edgie]

No options presenting a compelling based on form in the magpies...

Is it in the individuals or the team?

 

[El_Scorcho]

No options presenting a compelling based on form in the magpies...

Is it in the individuals or the team?

The league.