Opinion The Collingwood Versus Port Adelaide Jumper Debate continues...

[Enviable Tradition]

Aren't you the one asking people to argue the facts only?

The facts are that Collignwood signed an agreement for Port to wear the black and white bars once a year at AFL level and now with the help of AFL house have reneged on the agreement.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The Port Adelaide 'Mapgies' have literally zero influence on the Australian Football culture outside of South Australia. It's time to give it up Port Fans. You are the power, alternatively feel free to go back to the SANFL and we can give Tasmania your licence.

Craig McRea, Nathan Buckley, Leigh Mathews and Tony Shaw disagree with you

 

[LoungeLizard]

The facts are that Collignwood signed an agreement for Port to wear the black and white bars once a year at AFL level and now with the help of AFL house have reneged on the agreement.

Facts?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

You're using the argument that it's fine for Sydney and Brisbane to honour their heritage because their South and Fitzroy strips don't bear a similarity to other clubs. They're using it in multiple away games.

Port in contrast are content to use theirs once in a home game against a state rival. They aren't requesting to use it every week and in Victoria.

Let them have it! Get the contract done in good faith where it's stipulated that this it. No exceptions. Not a snaky way where Collingwood knew heritage round was on its last legs! Geez, if they have this, they might even go back to a black panel on the back on their V jumper rather than the hideous white panel to be able to honour some sort of club heritage.

Seriously, folks of other heritage clubs in will crap on about the plastic franchises of WCE, GWS, GC etc, yet want to prevent a famous football club from honouring the heritage they do have!

BF contradiction at its finest!

An action leads to reaction.

Collingwood and the League won't allow them to honour their heritage, so they've taken it upon themselves to do it.

It could've all been different if they could've worn the strip once a season.

Yeah I don't buy this either.

And I'm like others, I couldn't give a shit if they wear it in 22 games. Doesn't affect me.

But it's pretty clear to me that Port have embarked on a serious shift toward black and white. You look at their logo, their away strip, everything else.

To suggest this wouldn't have happened if only they'd been allowed to wear prison bars once or twice a year is rubbish. It's a clear marketing strategy and good luck to them.

But it was always going to make Collingwood nervous about the issue and worry about any further moves being the thin end of the wedge.

Collingwood have been touchy about since 1996 so Port making so much of their identity black and white is hardly going to relax them about it - it's had the opposite effect. And you can see why.

So if they need Collingwood's permission to wear the bars, it's pretty bloody obvious why the answer is going to be. There's absolutely no upside in it for Collingwood.

 

[jsdsgn]

Aren't you the one asking people to argue the facts only?

Absolutely, which is why I didnt include this point in the OP at all.

 

[parano1a]

The facts are that Collignwood signed an agreement for Port to wear the black and white bars once a year at AFL level and now with the help of AFL house have reneged on the agreement.

The agreement was that Port could wear the prison bar jumper within an AFL designated Heritage Round. The agreement was not once per year or whenever Port feel like it.

It's not Collingwood's problem that the AFL decided to stop designating league-wide heritage rounds, take that up with the AFL as Collingwood are adhering to the agreement.

 

[parano1a]

1. It's not a Collingwood logo, it was our SANFL logo.
2. It was used in conjunction with our AFL logo, not as a replacement of it.
3. At the time, we were using this as our OneClub branding:

It's close enough to the Collingwood magpie logo that the average consumer would not be able to tell the difference. Collingwood are entitled to revenue from sales of that scarf which was produced and sold without Collingwood Football Club's authority, and in clear contravention of the Port Adelaide club's AFL licence agreement.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

It's close enough to the Collingwood magpie logo that the average consumer would not be able to tell the difference. Collingwood are entitled to revenue from sales of that scarf which was produced and sold without Collingwood Football Club's authority, and in clear contravention of the Port Adelaide club's AFL licence agreement.

I agree. It has nothing to do with Colinwood.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The agreement was that Port could wear the prison bar jumper within an AFL designated Heritage Round. The agreement was not once per year or whenever Port feel like it.

It's not Collingwood's problem that the AFL decided to stop designating league-wide heritage rounds, take that up with the AFL as Collingwood are adhering to the agreement.

They're not Port facts.

Port play by different rules, well at least the supporters and Koch do, no wonder the AFL said no.

 

[biggiemediums]

Wasn't some contract written when Port entered the AFL? If so, what's the discussion?

There's a contract in place, contracts should be adhered to; if you don't like the contract, shouldn't have signed it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Wasn't some contract written when Port entered the AFL? If so, what's the discussion?

There's a contract in place, contracts should be adhered to; if you don't like the contract, shouldn't have signed it.

It was a condition of entry.

Now Port want to change the conditions, well I say wear the black and white stripes, but that's only half of the condition, the other half is, give the license back.

 

[bomberclifford]

as Collingwood are adhering to the agreement.

In what way?

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

I really don't get it. Black and white stripes aren't unique - vertical stripes are even less unique

It would be different if Collingwood had a super unique jumper/colour combination and Port also had the same. But black and white stripes are vanilla as they come in the sporting world

 

[mcgarnacle]

This is what I am advocating for, in the OP. I am simply saying that Sydney wearing it in away games is different than Port wearing it in home Showdowns, which is true.

I also might add that I think, and its quite reasonable and I'm sure you will agree, that Collingwood would be worried that give Kochie an inch and he will take a mile....hardly something unexpected from Kochie.

I also think Collingwood, as I have discussed with a few friends many times, should go back to the jumper of the 90s which was black stripes on a white guernsey, rather than the inverted version we have now that Eddie brought in. This would solve a lot of problems - Port's Prison Bars would be far less similar to Collingwood.

But that's not going to happen, and is a completely different story.

There are arguments that Collingwood adopted the inverse guernsey at the time in an attempt to thwart these future challenges by Port.

Whether or not that's the case is moot really. Collingwood are free to adopt any strip they want representing the club in matches. I feel Port should be able to do same, but that's obviously not going to happen in the foreseeable future if it's the prison bars.

Should Collingwood be concerned about Kochie's moves? Yes that he is pushing the branding aggressively but like I said, it may have been different if Port didn't feel like they were played with heritage rounds. But ultimately, if Collingwood are confident who they are as a club, then no.

Yes the strips would be black and white, and the two clubs wouldn't be able to play each other in them, just like Melbourne can't play Carlton or Essendon in their home strips. But the designs are also sufficiently different too that we know which strip is Collingwood and which is Port, just as we know the difference between a Melbourne, Carlton, or Essendon strip, particularly if say Port were to adopt white shorts in its home strip with the prison bars, ala the home final vs Richmond in 2014?

But like I say, that won't be happening, and I don't think Port want to go as far. They want an opportunity to play in it at home vs Adelaide.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Craig McRea, Nathan Buckley, Leigh Mathews and Tony Shaw disagree with you

Russell Ebert looks ripped in your avatar! Is it a photo or a sketch?

 

[mcgarnacle]

Yeah I don't buy this either.

And I'm like others, I couldn't give a s**t if they wear it in 22 games. Doesn't affect me.

But it's pretty clear to me that Port have embarked on a serious shift toward black and white. You look at their logo, their away strip, everything else.

To suggest this wouldn't have happened if only they'd been allowed to wear prison bars once or twice a year is rubbish. It's a clear marketing strategy and good luck to them.

But it was always going to make Collingwood nervous about the issue and worry about any further moves being the thin end of the wedge.

Collingwood have been touchy about since 1996 so Port making so much of their identity black and white is hardly going to relax them about it - it's had the opposite effect. And you can see why.

So if they need Collingwood's permission to wear the bars, it's pretty bloody obvious why the answer is going to be. There's absolutely no upside in it for Collingwood.

Do they need Collingwood's permission? Or are the AFL simply appeasing Collingwood due to their influence? I'd say it's the latter.

 

[mcgarnacle]

If they did something like this, then they should be able to wear it every game.

View attachment 1471646

That's not a Port Adelaide heritage guernsey. It's bastardising the heritage.

Victorian clubs are great at bastardising their guernseys and claiming it to be just as relevant the club because it retains the colours or a similar design. Whether it's putting a bulldog on the guernsey, a 'fat' sash, or whatever way Vic clubs have pushed the heritage angle to be accepted by their supporters.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Do they need Collingwood's permission? Or are the AFL simply appeasing Collingwood due to their influence? I'd say it's the latter.

Doesn't really matter either way. Collingwood are part of the conversation and have been since 1996.

Port have purposefully moved away from teal, that is pretty obvious. That was always going to put the wind up Collingwood. They can't be surprised now that Collingwood aren't relenting.

I reckon if Port introduced an official logo that actually incorporated teal (rather than it being a thin, obviously token outline) and a permanent away strip that incorporated teal then Collingwood might be a bit more reasonable about a once-a year outing of the bars.

 

[LoungeLizard]

That's not a Port Adelaide heritage guernsey. It's bastardising the heritage.

Victorian clubs are great at bastardising their guernseys and claiming it to be just as relevant the club because it retains the colours or a similar design. Whether it's putting a bulldog on the guernsey, a 'fat' sash, or whatever way Vic clubs have pushed the heritage angle to be accepted by their supporters.

Just Victorian clubs do that?

 

[chooke]

I cannot provide a copy of the original agreement. The AFL is not obligated to release it to the public. I think screenshots/images of it floated around once upon a time, but it is real, otherwise this discussion wouldn't exist. One day, it will probably surface; I predict this will happen when a new agreement invalidates it.

Yes, I missed a couple times where Port wore the PB's as I have acknowledged. The point of my OP still stands. I think my OP is also quite rational. I could've gone into the EPL, for instance, but that opens up another can of worms (and an extra 1000 words) and is also different again.

The point regarding finishing above Collingwood for higher than 5 seasons which was a message in an email, unfortunately Collingwood were not forced to honour this because there was no legal documentation behind it (that is, both parties signing that it would happen). For now, it remains a flippant promise in an email, with no real legal grounds to enforce if you are PAFC. However, I am surprised Kochie hasn't used this when talking to the AFL (or has he?).

People like you are the ones I want to engage with on this topic; bringing actual credible discussion points and facts to the table. Emotional, insult-laden cat-fights are not the way to go about this, like many are, as I have mentioned.

I agree about the flippant agreement of finishing higher in the first five seasons and it wouldn't be something Kotchie would hang his hat on, I'm just not convinced that the other signed agreement exists. I would have thought Cwd (Eddie in particular) or indeed someone from the current or past Port hierarchy would have moved heaven and earth to make it public by now. I doubt that agreement, if it exists, contains commercial in confidence information preventing its release.

 

[jsdsgn]

I agree about the flippant agreement of finishing higher in the first five seasons and it wouldn't be something Kotchie would hang his hat on, I'm just not convinced that the other signed agreement exists. I would have thought Cwd (Eddie in particular) or indeed someone from the current or past Port hierarchy would have moved heaven and earth to make it public by now. I doubt that agreement, if it exists, contains commercial in confidence information preventing its release.

It definitely exists but I just don't think the AFL is obligated to, or would want to, make private business documents public. If anything, it opens up a very grey area for any future topics like this one to have documents leaked. There's probably an almost unspoken blanket rule for a reason.

For what its worth, I found the following website quite interesting:

On this day: Port Adelaide reveals its AFL brand to the world

20 years ago, Port Adelaide went from football powerhouse to Power in name as well!

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

 

[Igavemyloveachicken]

If they did something like this, then they should be able to wear it every game.

View attachment 1471646

There's a design on the Port Forum and online that doesn't include teal but is the Prison Bar design but instead of White it utilises Silver.
Aesthetically it looks fantastic in my opinion....If I could up-load an image I would but I tend to bugger up the process, the forum could get anything!
My appreciation in advance to anyone that could upload that for me.

 

[melanChronic]

Doesn't really matter either way. Collingwood are part of the conversation and have been since 1996.

Port have purposefully moved away from teal, that is pretty obvious. That was always going to put the wind up Collingwood. They can't be surprised now that Collingwood aren't relenting.

I reckon if Port introduced an official logo that actually incorporated teal (rather than it being a thin, obviously token outline) and a permanent away strip that incorporated teal then Collingwood might be a bit more reasonable about a once-a year outing of the bars.

What's wrong with the club minimising teal? The supporters hate it, it represents the compromise foisted upon the club in the 1990s (is there a more 90s colour?) when it was teal or oblivion. It also just looks plain garbage as anything other than a minimal tertiary colour.

Why would people want a club and its supporters to wear a colour that they don't want and haven't embraced? There is some weird perverted pleasure that Victorians get from seeing Port in teal that I just don't understand. Just let our club choose how they want to be represented.

 

[jsdsgn]

What's wrong with the club minimising teal? The supporters hate it, it represents the compromise foisted upon the club in the 1990s (is there a more 90s colour?) when it was teal or oblivion. It also just looks plain garbage as anything other than a minimal tertiary colour.

Why would people want a club and its supporters to wear a colour that they don't want and haven't embraced? There is some weird perverted pleasure that Victorians get from seeing Port in teal that I just don't understand. Just let our club choose how they want to be represented.

I actually think the teal looks awesome; Port have designed some excellent jumpers over the years. No, this is not a sarcastic comment. But I understand if the fans dont like the teal.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Just Victorian clubs do that?

Port don't, shouldn't have too, and won't. That's all that matters here.

If a club like Essendon for example wants to bastardise their traditional guernsey every which way with a fat sash, red sash on grey, red sash on red, etc to give the impression and show supporters that they're somehow continuing to be be true to their heritage, then that's up to them.

The Essendon guernsey is black with a red sash.

The Port Adelaide heritage guernsey is black and white prison bars with the white number panel. If I was a Port supporter, the only teal I'd want to see on that guernsey is the teal on the Power logo. And that appears to be the consensus among Port supporters themselves.