Opinion The Collingwood Versus Port Adelaide Jumper Debate continues...

[doppleganger]

You keep dictating what the club should be acknowledging as their heritage.

???
Im just referencing what their AFL and Showdown heritage is.

That is the lightning bolts.

The lightning bolt jumper was the jumper the Cornes boys, Wanganeen, Tredrea played in and the one Scotty Cummings wrestled Rod Jamo in showdown 1.

Port Adelaide is a club formed in 1870. They decide what they want to celebrate and how, not you!

I am simply noting the AFL showdown heritage...absolutely nothing to do with the Port Magpies jumper from the 1960s

 

[jdeezy]

???
Im just referencing what their AFL and Showdown heritage is.

That is the lightning bolts.

The lightning bolt jumper was the jumper the Cornes boys, Wanganeen, Tredrea played in and the one Scotty Cummings wrestled Rod Jamo in showdown 1.

I am simply noting the AFL showdown heritage...absolutely nothing to do with the Port Magpies jumper from the 1960s

I personally don't disagree, I do associate the classic Port SBS Guernsey with Showdowns. I would be happy to instead wear the Bars at whatever game we choose, and then rock the Power stuff for the Showdown. But since the VFL - or at least one insecure part of it - won't let us wear our preferred heritage Guernsey whenever we want, as the rest of the competition can, then we have to rely on the SA history angl of the Showdown.

 

[jerry springer]

biggest non issue in the AFL, let them wear it 2-3 times a year

I swear to god, it comes up every year just to sell papers and clicks

its a complete non issue

 

[LoungeLizard]

biggest non issue in the AFL, let them wear it 2-3 times a year

I swear to god, it comes up every year just to sell papers and clicks

its a complete non issue

Nah stuff em, they like to hang crap on the AFL, they like to hang crap on Collingwood/Vics, Koch thinks he can dictate to others, let them suck it up.

 

[doppleganger]

I personally don't disagree, I do associate the classic Port SBS Guernsey with Showdowns.

Yep, it is a nonsense to try and link the Port Magpies prison bars with the Showdown.

Absolutely nothing to do with the Showdown, if anything the Showdown was what put the bars out of action and into the museum.

I would be happy to instead wear the Bars at whatever game we choose, and then rock the Power stuff for the Showdown. But since the VFL - or at least one insecure part of it - won't let us wear our preferred heritage Guernsey whenever we want, as the rest of the competition can, then we have to rely on the SA history angl of the Showdown.

The rest of the competition ie Brisbane/Sydney have direct VFL links to Fitzroy and South Melbourne. And WC/Freo playing in old Freo AFL jumpers is different.

Pushing for Showdown is a poor angle and so is a random game against GWS or West Coast, the Port Magpies never played GWS.

IMHO it is ridiculous that currently Port AFL, AFLW and SANFL teams all where different kits - how can you "never tear us apart" if you dont play in the same jumpers??

The AFLW have nailed it if Chevrons are the design, but I think a missed opportunity to use "the bars" design with AFLW colours for ALL Port teams.

The Port Magpies heritage jumper could and should be brought out for the odd SANFL game against Norwood at Alberton, that is actually celebrating the Port Magpies heritage.

 

[jdeezy]

Yep, it is a nonsense to try and link the Port Magpies prison bars with the Showdown.

Absolutely nothing to do with the Showdown, if anything the Showdown was what put the bars out of action and into the museum.

The rest of the competition ie Brisbane/Sydney have direct VFL links to Fitzroy and South Melbourne. And WC/Freo playing in old Freo AFL jumpers is different.

Pushing for Showdown is a poor angle and so is a random game against GWS or West Coast, the Port Magpies never played GWS.

IMHO it is ridiculous that currently Port AFL, AFLW and SANFL teams all where different kits - how can you "never tear us apart" if you dont play in the same jumpers??

The AFLW have nailed it if Chevrons are the design, but I think a missed opportunity to use "the bars" design with AFLW colours for ALL Port teams.

The Port Magpies heritage jumper could and should be brought out for the odd SANFL game against Norwood at Alberton, that is actually celebrating the Port Magpies heritage.

Come on, this is a horseshit argument and you know it is. No other club is beholden to only wear their heritage Guernsey against teams they actually played against. It's a strawman that Collingwood supporters like to trot out because they think it makes them look intelligent and balanced.

But **** it, I'll institute your "rules".

Port can now wear their 1890 Guernsey vs Sydney (who we all know are South Melbourne, because it turns out clubs can move states, get a new name and eventually enter the AFL without becoming a new franchise) to celebrate their Champions of Australia title.


And, more relevant to this discussion, can now wear their 1910 Guernsey against Collingwood to celebrate their Champions of Australia title from that year.


And their 1913 Champions of Australia Guernsey against Brisbane (who again are Fitzroy - clubs can even merge and we still recognise their history).


And finally their Champions of Australia 1914 Guernsey, celebrating the "Invincibles" undefeated team, in games against Carlton.


So at least three games a year in the bars, thanks for setting the criteria for us. Looking forward to it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Come on, this is a horseshit argument and you know it is. No other club is beholden to only wear their heritage Guernsey against teams they actually played against. It's a strawman that Collingwood supporters like to trot out because they think it makes them look intelligent and balanced.

But * it, I'll institute your "rules".

Port can now wear their 1890 Guernsey vs Sydney (who we all know are South Melbourne, because it turns out clubs can move states, get a new name and eventually enter the AFL without becoming a new franchise) to celebrate their Champions of Australia title.
View attachment 1475813

And, more relevant to this discussion, can now wear their 1910 Guernsey against Collingwood to celebrate their Champions of Australia title from that year.
View attachment 1475816

And their 1913 Champions of Australia Guernsey against Brisbane (who again are Fitzroy - clubs can even merge and we still recognise their history).
View attachment 1475816

And finally their Champions of Australia 1914 Guernsey, celebrating the "Invincibles" undefeated team, in games against Carlton.
View attachment 1475816

So at least three games a year in the bars, thanks for setting the criteria for us. Looking forward to it.

When they have the next heritage round, you can pick the guernsey you want to wear, no-body has said you can't.

 

[jdeezy]

When they have the next heritage round, you can pick the guernsey you want to wear, no-body has said you can't.

Easy. Geelong, Freo and the Bulldogs can make their own "Retro Round" whenever they want so we can make our own "Heritage Round" whenever we want as well. Not sure what the controversy has been when it's this easy

 

[LoungeLizard]

Easy. Geelong, Freo and the Bulldogs can make their own "Retro Round" whenever they want so we can make our own "Heritage Round" whenever we want as well. Not sure what the controversy has been when it's this easy

That's probably the reason why when you ask to wear it the AFL say no, they don't trust you.

 

[doppleganger]

Come on, this is a horseshit argument and you know it is. No other club is beholden to only wear their heritage Guernsey against teams they actually played against. It's a strawman that Collingwood supporters like to trot out because they think it makes them look intelligent and balanced.

Completely missed the point.

Sydney ARE South Melbourne, it is the same club that was a founding VFL/AFL club. So Sydney just use jumpers that were previously part of this league.

Same with Brisbane via Fitzroy, Fitzroy were a founding league club...the Brisbane takeover means they have a direct link.

Fremantle bringing out retro 90s Fremantle AFL jumpers, or WC retro 80s VFL jumpers, again all about jumpers that are part of VFL/AFL heritage.

Port trying to pull out crap from some mickey mouse champions of australia or night series gimmick games that the Port Magpies played in is not part or VFL/AFL.

Port Magpies heritage is SANFL, you currently celebrate it every week by continuing to play in the Bars (despite it not being your senior teams kit). So considering that, not sure what the problem is...a Port supporter can go watch the Bars at Alberton whenever they want and celebrate their heritage.

 

[doppleganger]

Easy. Geelong, Freo and the Bulldogs can make their own "Retro Round" whenever they want so we can make our own "Heritage Round" whenever we want as well. Not sure what the controversy has been when it's this easy

You already do.

This Sunday Port will be in the Bars v South Adelaide Panthers.

Embrace the heritage.

 

[yodellinhank]

Easy. Geelong, Freo and the Bulldogs can make their own "Retro Round" whenever they want so we can make our own "Heritage Round" whenever we want as well. Not sure what the controversy has been when it's this easy

Or, you could stop being so combative
and trying to place yourselves as some outsider, and actually get together with Geelong, Freo and the bulldogs and push the AFL for a week you all do it together. Would get more promotion and possibly sales for those clubs as a result. The cats strip was a cracker.

 

[chooke]

S

No-one outside of Adelaide even heard of Port Adelaide. But everyone has always seen the black and white stripes as Collingwood.

Speak for yourself, most followers of aussie rules of any salt would have been aware of the major teams across the leagues.

 

[VinnieB]

S

Speak for yourself, most followers of aussie rules of any salt would have been aware of the major teams across the leagues.

Black and white stripes = Collingwood.
Everyone knows that.

Stop trying to be Collingwood.

 

[AndyD]

Yet another strawman.

How on earth is it a strawman? Do you think the original 12 clubs willingly gave up their IP with no assurances/commitments from the VFL, now AFL, as to how it would be used? I would suggest reading Ross Oakley’s book around those negotiations to get a bit more understanding of the issues. Even though he doesn’t detail the contents of the negotiations, it would be beyond naive to assume that there was no conditions placed on the AFL’s use of that IP.


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[AndyD]

No it wouldn't lmao. And Collingwood wouldn't leave the AFL even if they could.

Collingwood likely have no desire to leave the AFL at the moment. But anyone with a basic understanding of contract law would know that willingly allowing a breach of contract in the past makes it harder (though not impossible) to make a claim for a breach of the same manner in the future and I’d guess Jeff Browne, who spent 20 years working on that agreement while employed by the AFL, would have a bit better understanding than most (especially breakfast TV hosts). If the VFL/AFL got the rights to the exisiting clubs IP with a commitment to not let other clubs use that IP without the originals clubs agreement, the AFL would seem to clearly be in breach of the licensing agreement. Such a breach would likely let Collingwood exit the agreement, which would also have the effect of unravelling the entire agreement. At that point it’s not just about Collingwood leaving, it’s up to the clubs to decide how they want to organise going forward, and with who. I’d seriously doubt Port would be included in any such organisation going forward, or certainly not one with Collingwood.

I cannot recommend enough that Port supporters read Ross Oakley’s book, particularly Chapter 6, which outlines how important that agreement is to the leagues stability and financial success since that time. The AFL would not be able to generate the income from TV if they couldn’t guarantee that the teams the TV companies are paying for actually play, and the only way they can guarantee that is by owning the club names/colours etc. Anything that could possibly compromise the ability to do that is not something that would, or should be taken lightly by the AFL.


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[El_Scorcho]

Collingwood likely have no desire to leave the AFL at the moment. But anyone with a basic understanding of contract law would know that willingly allowing a breach of contract in the past makes it harder (though not impossible) to make a claim for a breach of the same manner in the future and I’d guess Jeff Browne, who spent 20 years working on that agreement while employed by the AFL, would have a bit better understanding than most (especially breakfast TV hosts). If the VFL/AFL got the rights to the exisiting clubs IP with a commitment to not let other clubs use that IP without the originals clubs agreement, the AFL would seem to clearly be in breach of the licensing agreement. Such a breach would likely let Collingwood exit the agreement, which would also have the effect of unravelling the entire agreement. At that point it’s not just about Collingwood leaving, it’s up to the clubs to decide how they want to organise going forward, and with who. I’d seriously doubt Port would be included in any such organisation going forward, or certainly not one with Collingwood.

I cannot recommend enough that Port supporters read Ross Oakley’s book, particularly Chapter 6, which outlines how important that agreement is to the leagues stability and financial success since that time. The AFL would not be able to generate the income from TV if they couldn’t guarantee that the teams the TV companies are paying for actually play, and the only way they can guarantee that is by owning the club names/colours etc. Anything that could possibly compromise the ability to do that is not something that would, or should be taken lightly by the AFL.


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There is a 0% chance that Collingwood would be able to successfully sue the AFL for breach of contract, and a 0% chance that they'd be interested in doing that.

The clauses that you're arguing would be breached simply wouldn't exist in any agreement in a way that would allow Collingwood to have any chance of being successful suing because another club wears a guernsey design that Collingwood don't wear and have never worn.

The idea that other clubs would leave the AFL with Collingwood to form a breakaway league to force Port out over a heritage guernsey is ridiculous.

Further, even if the contract wording did give Collingwood a shot here, Port have worn the Prison Bars 5 times at AFL level and has been using the bars as part of their branding for their entire time in the AFL. That ship has sailed.

 

[yodellinhank]

There is a 0% chance that Collingwood would be able to successfully sue the AFL for breach of contract, and a 0% chance that they'd be interested in doing that.

The clauses that you're arguing would be breached simply wouldn't exist in any agreement in a way that would allow Collingwood to have any chance of being successful suing because another club wears a guernsey design that Collingwood don't wear and have never worn.

The idea that other clubs would leave the AFL with Collingwood to form a breakaway league to force Port out over a heritage guernsey is ridiculous.

Further, even if the contract wording did give Collingwood a shot here, Port have worn the Prison Bars 5 times at AFL level and has been using the bars as part of their branding for their entire time in the AFL. That ship has sailed.

Why aren't port wearing the bars next week?

 

[parano1a]

Why aren't port wearing the bars next week?

Because:
A) It's not an AFL designated Heritage Round, and
B) Collingwood has not approved it to be worn

 

[El_Scorcho]

Why aren't port wearing the bars next week?

Because the AFL, who have complete control over what every club wears, are pandering to Collingwood because they're a more important club than us.

Note that Collingwood didn't sue the AFL and try to secede from the league any of the last 5 times we wore the bars at AFL level.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Because the AFL, who have complete control over what every club wears, are pandering to Collingwood because they're a more important club than us.

Note that Collingwood didn't sue the AFL and try to secede from the league any of the last 5 times we wore the bars at AFL level.

No,no, no, that's not what you said earlier, we have contacts in the government.

Everyone else is wrong,you are right, it's a conspiracy.

 

[El_Scorcho]

No,no, no, that's not what you said earlier, we have contacts in the government.

Everyone else is wrong,you are right, it's a conspiracy.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing here.

Are you saying that the AFL are bound by a contract giving Collingwood control and couldn't approve them if they wanted to?

What about all the times they approved them? What about in 2014 when they were approved in a few hours for a final against a big Victorian club after previously having been denied? Why didn't Collingwood wheel out the contract then?

 

[Pappagallo]

When they have the next heritage round, you can pick the guernsey you want to wear, no-body has said you can't.

The concept of an official Heritage Round has been binned. It’s been 15 years since the last one. Hence why clubs are going at it alone with these “retro rounds” instead, which is exactly what we are trying to do ourselves.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

For the life of me I can’t work out why any opposition supporter would care what port Adelaide wear for 1 game. Honouring our past, nothing to do with Collingwood or trying to become the magpies.

The people/club making this a big deal and turning this into a magpie/colour issue is the Collingwood football club. Most Collingwood fans against it are just blindly following the club’s opinion due to bias.

Truly mountains out of what should be mole hills

 

[captain ebert]

Collingwood’s stance and reasoning on this matter is damaging their brand far more than us wearing the PB’s twice a year ever would.