Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Buckemenico]

AFL and ASADA: weak, and more interested in money and protecting favoured sons than the integrity of the competition. The AFL is not independent.

How can it possibly be, that essendon get away with the following:
- systematically injecting all of their players with questionable substances, for the sole purpose of getting an advantage over other clubs. Whether or not they were banned, at best for essendon they are arguably banned.
- Watson admits he got AOD 9604, which is not approved for human use anywhere in the world, and banned by WADA under S0. He admits getting heaps of injections, more than ever before.

How can it possibly be that they are not in huge trouble? Astonishing.

Deleteriou more interested in the money then the integrity. This is becoming a sham.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Don't think they're gonna get away with it.

 

[Flukey!]

I think they are going to get smashed.

 

[Brishawk]

Once the asada report is announced essendon will be stripped of points with possible fines and draft pick penalties also. This will be on the basis of brining the game into disrepute. The asada report is an interim report only and will not make recommendations of sanctions against the players. Asada recently obtained new powers which allow it to coerce individuals to provide testimony who are outside the sport. This includes dank who previously could not be compelled to make a statement. Once asada's investigation is complete the players will be chucked out of the sport for two years. Asada will ensure the sanctions are binding by conducting a complete and thorough investigation with no room for dispute in the courts. They effectively have the entire offseason to establish the players guilt although for practical reasons the afl would probably prefer an outcome a lot sooner in order to arrange a supplementary list for essendon and ensure scheduling and tv rights issues sorted well in advance of the season.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Think Brishawk is on the money.

 

[xellis]

I'd be very surprised if the players are banned for two years.

 

[dipper86]

I'd be very surprised if the players are banned for two years.

I also agree the worst they will get I think is 6 months....but I reckon they will get off though, don't ask me how or why.

 

[Flukey!]

6 months imo. The rules are that clear that it is nearly not possible for Asada to not suspend them.
Where I think the AFL will step in is have the suspensions late this year so next season is not affected.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not according to Fairfax's best investigative journos they are not.

Thymosin Beta 4 given to 11 players.

They are in a world of pain.

 

[floki]

Secretive, built off site and not keeping records...... must be a Black Op.

 

[Cyril the Squirrel]

Secretive, built off site and not keeping records...... must be a Black Op.

Say that again.

 

[randall boner]

I'd be very surprised if the players are banned for two years.

they should be,injections,off site and pushing the boundries...hello they all cant be that stupid.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

I think if the interim report is anything to go by they are in trouble. Someone was reporting the other day about the possibly penalties and it looked possible, not probable, that they could whittled down to about 6 months. I think that involved the players ratting on each other or other staff members to get leniency. I think the AFL will be working with Essendon to make sure this happens somehow.

If the AFL do this and put that penalty in place in the off season, this whole process would serve as a mockery to the system. One good thing to come is that I think this may be the final straw for Vlad. I don't think he will be around much longer. it has been a smelly last few years under his dictatorship leadership. Most other high profile leaders in the business sector would have been given the ultimatum well before now with what has gone on in the AFL.

 

[La Vache]

What I find absolutely beyond belief about all this is the claim that Essendon did not keep even the most basic records of what supplements/injections were given to their employees.

Actually dumbfounded would be more accurate, given the possible repercussions of even a minor blunder with such a program. You can imagine the reaction of an auditor asking to see your invoices, pay slips, bank records, etc and being told that, actually, you haven't bothered to record them. Well it looks like that is what has happened with Essendon and ASADA.

It is my opinion that any elite sporting club with tens of millions of dollars in turnover, competing in a billion dollar industry, should be required to scrupulously keep documentation of two main areas above all others. Financials and employee health.

With regards to actual banned substance use, for now I am happy just to concentrate on footy. If it comes to pass that that club has administered them to its players then I will be at the front of the queue with the gasoline, my cannon and a match.

What seems to be beyond doubt though, is that the Essendon FC is a rabble beyond my own comprehension. Can you imagine being a player for that club right now, shitting yourself?

Footballer: "What substance did the club inject me with?"
EFC: "Well we don't know for sure, but we are confident you were given nothing illegal"
Footballer: "Well that is a relief. Could I just have a comprehensive list though, just in case"
EFC: "No, we don't have one, we have not kept records of what you were given"
Footballer: "............."

Lol.

 

[play2win]

the failure to keep records will incur penalties itself. it may even have legal oh&s implications (with worksafe?)

 

[burner1]

the failure to keep records will incur penalties itself. it may even have legal oh&s implications (with worksafe?)

The failure to keep records is pretty convincing circumstantial evidence that they were breaking the rules. Essendon is trying to paint the picture that this was a disorganised rogue operation - what a fn joke.

Players do not get significant amounts of injections and the paper work just goes missing. I'd expect in this day and age that every injection the club doctor gives is recorded. The fact nothing was recorded or very vaguely was a deliberate effort to hide what they were doing and leave no obvious paper trail.

As far as I'm aware you don't need to actually fail a drug test or get caught with smoking gun to get banned - look at lance armstrong - it was all circumstancial evidence corrabrated from a variety of sources.

They're completely stuffed and no amount of spin can save them.

 

[MC_9]

I don't think any players will get banned. The report said they were unwitting participants to a poorly run program.

The real people that are in trouble are the powers at be at the club, and the club itself. Massive fines and likely loss of premiership points is my bet.

Hird might also be asked to step down. However Essendon seem adamant on fighting that.

 

[Arrogant Frog]

I can't see how they will get away with it, even if the AFL and ASADA go a bit easy and just fine/suspend the club, I think WADA are the sleeping dog and will come over the top.

If you have 5mins read this article:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-escape-sanction-its-hard-to-see-why-20130801-2r10f.html

 

[Dinner Plate]

Hird is dead in the water. The club have to appear to be behind him, and will make noises until the end.

The players will be saved by the AFLs backroom "negotiations". Even though, according to the letter of the law they should all be rubbed out for a minimum of six months

The whole debacle stinks. It has dragged the game down.

And when Essendon take the AFL to the courts to prevent them having their points stripped and missing finals, the game will be forever tarnished.

Shame on you James Hird. Shame on you Mark Thompson. Shame on you Essendon.

 

[Whirling Dervish]

I can't see how they will get away with it, even if the AFL and ASADA go a bit easy and just fine/suspend the club, I think WADA are the sleeping dog and will come over the top.

If you have 5mins read this article:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-escape-sanction-its-hard-to-see-why-20130801-2r10f.html

This article doesn't address the question of identifying what was given to specific players. We're still relying on rumour and contradictory unproven assertions on that question. The only actual information I'm aware of that's out there as to who took what is:

1. Jobe Watson "thinking he may have" taken AOD-9604; and
2. An invoice issued to Essendon recording generic descriptions for substances that may or may not describe banned substances.

The worse the record keeping and the more circumstantial the evidence, the less likely it is that specific players will be banned. If you have record of 11 doses of Thymosin-beta 4 being dispensed and 20 players recorded as taking 'Thymosin', who do you ban?


We'll find out in due course if there is more specific information or witness testimony that may identify what was actually given to which players. I'm guessing we won't find out until ASADA has had a go at Dank under their new powers.

 

[Main Man]

Claims on Twitter that Hird is done.

 

[Yuley95]

This article doesn't address the question of identifying what was given to specific players. We're still relying on rumour and contradictory unproven assertions on that question. The only actual information I'm aware of that's out there as to who took what is:

1. Jobe Watson "thinking he may have" taken AOD-9604; and
2. An invoice issued to Essendon recording generic descriptions for substances that may or may not describe banned substances.

The worse the record keeping and the more circumstantial the evidence, the less likely it is that specific players will be banned. If you have record of 11 doses of Thymosin-beta 4 being dispensed and 20 players recorded as taking 'Thymosin', who do you ban?


We'll find out in due course if there is more specific information or witness testimony that may identify what was actually given to which players. I'm guessing we won't find out until ASADA has had a go at Dank under their new powers.

I know what you mean and I agree on the reading of that article that it sounds hard to ban individual players given the poor record keeping but surely they can't get away with it...!?!

I mean, if all you have to do is NOT write down which illegal drug you used and how many times you put it in the bloodstream of each individual player then everyone would have a crack and get away.

 

[Yuley95]

Claims on Twitter that Hird is done.

But it's not Thursday yet

 

[B&GBlood]

This article doesn't address the question of identifying what was given to specific players. We're still relying on rumour and contradictory unproven assertions on that question. The only actual information I'm aware of that's out there as to who took what is:

1. Jobe Watson "thinking he may have" taken AOD-9604; and
2. An invoice issued to Essendon recording generic descriptions for substances that may or may not describe banned substances.

The worse the record keeping and the more circumstantial the evidence, the less likely it is that specific players will be banned. If you have record of 11 doses of Thymosin-beta 4 being dispensed and 20 players recorded as taking 'Thymosin', who do you ban?


We'll find out in due course if there is more specific information or witness testimony that may identify what was actually given to which players. I'm guessing we won't find out until ASADA has had a go at Dank under their new powers.

If you use the precedent of the VFL player banned for buying some banned stuff, but not using it, I say the intent is there and that is all they seem to need to prove.

 

[IdiotBox]

I mean, if all you have to do is NOT write down which illegal drug you used and how many times you put it in the bloodstream of each individual player then everyone would have a crack and get away.

This. It would be an absolute travesty if the negligent absence of specific injection records is somehow used as 'proof' they never happened? The onus should be on the *EFC to prove they didn't.