Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Messenger]

The other clubs don't want Essendon buried. They want a brokered settlement that sets a precedent for the next team to get caught.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

Did many Tird supporters turn up for the Tird march on Saturday? Didn't read much about it.

 

[Brishawk]

The other clubs don't want Essendon buried. They want a brokered settlement that sets a precedent for the next team to get caught.

That is a scary thought.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The article in the Australian today by Patrick Smith pulls no punches, and even has a crack at the other media outlets who are doing Hird's bidding.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...d-face-the-music/story-e6frg7uo-1226699532053

ARE we done with the tears? All that weeping and the wallowing. The hand-wringing. It cannot be possible for Essendon to roll out any more people prepared to stump up the reputations of the Four Aminos.
They were at it again on the weekend. There was a plea for the AFL to stop messing with people's lives. Truly. Another was banal enough to suggest James Hird should be suspended for the finals only because Essendon doesn't have a chance in hell of winning a final anyway. That's what the bloke wrote.
- - - - - -
Time to put away the hankies. The sniffling from the Essendon media conscripts is unedifying.

Nice touch.

 

[hawk65]

Who has time to sleep?

Anyway, I loved the fact that Essendon come out and argued "the supplements were from New Mexico, not Mexico....ner nerny ner ner!"

.

I've often wondered how you spelt that.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

They are professional athletes. They are contractually required to comply with WADA rules. It's their job.

It's an interesting argument this one, and one I've been thinking about for some time. For some reason, footballers are different styles of people to other athletes. You hear them interviewed and they are full of cliches we have all heard 1 million times before, whereas athletes from other sports appear to have their own personalities.

I have often put this down to the fact that those athletes are encouraged to think for themselves whereas the average Aussie Rules player is not. Football clubs love their players to blindly tow the corporate line, and anyone with the capacity to think outside the square finds it difficult to survive in a football environment.

Whereas I do agree that ALL athletes are required to comply with WADA rules, and it is their responsibility to govern whatever drugs they take, I find it difficult to imagine an 18 year old trying to embark upon an AFL career having the strength of character to stand up to someone with the persona of James Hird.

Peer group pressure is something that looms large in football clubs, the need to be accepted by others is very important to a young AFL footballer. If other more senior players appear to be consenting to these programs, it would be very difficult for a young man to say no.

The AFL (and to a lesser degree, the players association) have failed in their responsibilities to these footballers. They need to develop a program that tells players it is THEIR responsibility to accept or reject whatever drugs their club is trying to inject into their bodies. Should they fail to do so, they must accept the full consequences of their decisions.

 

[Brishawk]

It's an interesting argument this one, and one I've been thinking about for some time. For some reason, footballers are different styles of people to other athletes. You hear them interviewed and they are full of cliches we have all heard 1 million times before, whereas athletes from other sports appear to have their own personalities.

I have often put this down to the fact that those athletes are encouraged to think for themselves whereas the average Aussie Rules player is not. Football clubs love their players to blindly tow the corporate line, and anyone with the capacity to think outside the square finds it difficult to survive in a football environment.

Whereas I do agree that ALL athletes are required to comply with WADA rules, and it is their responsibility to govern whatever drugs they take, I find it difficult to imagine an 18 year old trying to embark upon an AFL career having the strength of character to stand up to someone with the persona of James Hird.

Peer group pressure is something that looms large in football clubs, the need to be accepted by others is very important to a young AFL footballer. If other more senior players appear to be consenting to these programs, it would be very difficult for a young man to say no.

The AFL (and to a lesser degree, the players association) have failed in their responsibilities to these footballers. They need to develop a program that tells players it is THEIR responsibility to accept of reject whatever drugs their club is trying to inject into their bodies. Should they fail to do so, they must accept the full consequences of their decisions.

Boring. This has been covered before. Cycling is a team sport with WAY more emphasis on sport science than AFL. They are literally told what to eat and when to eat it. very strict. To say AFL players put more faith in their coaches etc. is just a BS myth being propagated to excuse sympathy for the players. don't see entire soccer clubs implementing systemic doping schemes in such a brazen fashion. ALL AFL players are educated and instructed on their responsibilities under the WADA code. All of them. But given the lip service the AFL gives to its own rules and the back patting from the media I can appreciate that players may think the rules are just for show. That is the players' bad though. Peer pressure is no excuse and it is irrelevant to their responsibilities under the WADA code.

 

[Argy]

Boring. This has been covered before. Cycling is a team sport with WAY more emphasis on sport science than AFL. They are literally told what to eat and when to eat it. very strict. To say AFL players put more faith in their coaches etc. is just a BS myth being propagated to excuse sympathy for the players. don't see entire soccer clubs implementing systemic doping schemes in such a brazen fashion. ALL AFL players are educated and instructed on their responsibilities under the WADA code. All of them. But given the lip service the AFL gives to its own rules and the back patting from the media I can appreciate that players may think the rules are just for show. That is the players' bad though. Peer pressure is no excuse and it is irrelevant to their responsibilities under the WADA code.

One of the reasons AFL players might put too much faith in their coaches in drug related matters is that there has never been a prosecution like the one we are seeing.

God help anyone who thinks after this that they can trust anyone other than themselves!

 

[Buckemenico]

All Athletics Australia are told to make sure that they know exactly what is going in their bodies, especially if it is an injection.

Danny Corcoran used to be the head of Athletics Australia.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Boring. This has been covered before. Cycling is a team sport with WAY more emphasis on sport science than AFL. They are literally told what to eat and when to eat it. very strict. To say AFL players put more faith in their coaches etc. is just a BS myth being propagated to excuse sympathy for the players. don't see entire soccer clubs implementing systemic doping schemes in such a brazen fashion. ALL AFL players are educated and instructed on their responsibilities under the WADA code. All of them. But given the lip service the AFL gives to its own rules and the back patting from the media I can appreciate that players may think the rules are just for show. That is the players' bad though. Peer pressure is no excuse and it is irrelevant to their responsibilities under the WADA code.

Sorry for wasting your time. I forgot you had all the answers and all we had to do was ask you.

 

[Davo23]

One of the reasons AFL players might put too much faith in their coaches in drug related matters is that there has never been a prosecution like the one we are seeing.

God help anyone who thinks after this that they can trust anyone other than themselves!

Don't forget, some of the Essendon players refused to have the injections.

Why?
Surely that does indicate that the players either knew or believed that they were being injected with something that was not quite right.

I don't accept the "footballers just do what they are told" argument - its just a convenient excuse.

.

 

[Dinner Plate]

The larger point here is that the code does not make allowances for players who are simply following orders. This is not the military.

Which makes it appear likely that the only way the players escape penalty is through some kind of backroom deal between the AFL and ASADA. However, WADA will be hovering around waiting to hit the Scum right in the Contador (and ban them after the national body failed to.)

Any sympathy we may or may not have for young, unthinking, unquestioning kids who are just following orders leads us to the more pertinent point about duty of care. All the circumstantial evidence points to gross negligence on the part of those in charge of the players' physical wellbeing. The denials, flip-flopping and strawman arguments from Hird and co, in the vain attempt to protect their own well-tanned bacon, simply reinforces the scale of their abject failures.

Court injunctions will be like a patient trying to tear out his own stitches, as multiple surgeons try to operate to hide the rotten, festering abscess this whole saga has become.

 

[Brishawk]

Sorry for wasting your time. I forgot you had all the answers and all we had to do was ask you.

Cheers. Always willing to address a question with respect. Demands made by ignorant people? Not so much.

 

[Brishawk]

The larger point here is that the code does not make allowances for players who are simply following orders. This is not the military.

Which makes it appear likely that the only way the players escape penalty is through some kind of backroom deal between the AFL and ASADA. However, WADA will be hovering around waiting to hit the Scum right in the Contador (and ban them after the national body failed to.)

Any sympathy we may or may not have for young, unthinking, unquestioning kids who are just following orders leads us to the more pertinent point about duty of care. All the circumstantial evidence points to gross negligence on the part of those in charge of the players' physical wellbeing. The denials, flip-flopping and strawman arguments from Hird and co, in the vain attempt to protect their own well-tanned bacon, simply reinforces the scale of their abject failures.

Court injunctions will be like a patient trying to tear out his own stitches, as multiple surgeons try to operate to hide the rotten, festering abscess this whole saga has become.

You can't implement a systemic doping scheme without complicit individuals. I think it is disgusting what the club has done to the players but at the end of the day the players have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

All Athletics Australia are told to make sure that they know exactly what is going in their bodies, especially if it is an injection.

Danny Corcoran used to be the head of Athletics Australia.

Danny Corcoran was also supposedly warned not to involve Dank at his last place of employment, before returning to Essendon.

How odd that he then finds a job under Corcoran at Essendon.

Of course, this could be all Essendon needs, should they want to throw another under the bus, while ignoring James and his numerous discussions with Dank around what would be injected into each player.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

Wow, All hell will break loose with the AFL, and ASADA, and WADA. The AFL KNEW back in Feb that
AOD9604 Was NOT on a banned list.What a mess for six months over something the clubs AND AFL have known it was NOT a banned substance. Apparently it was on a S2 legal substance. They are a disgrace, all of them. As much as I detest the scum this should never have got to this stage..There could be other substances they will admit were used, but how stupid are the AFL too.. Holy Smoke!,,This will be interesting..

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wow, All hell will break loose with the AFL, and ASADA, and WADA. The AFL KNEW back in Feb that
AOD9604 Was NOT on a banned list.What a mess for six months over something the clubs AND AFL have known it was NOT a banned substance. Apparently it was on a S2 legal substance. They are a disgrace, all of them. As much as I detest the scum this should never have got to this stage..There could be other substances they will admit were used, but how stupid are the AFL too.. Holy Smoke!,,This will be interesting..

AOD is not the issue.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

Echols, It was the subject they were talking about on AFL360. It's a stuff up, specifically AOD9604. That's all they were talking about. Typical Australian govt depts, like our politicians none of them can be trusted..It's a mess,a stuff up, whatever you want to call it..

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Echols, It was the subject they were talking about on AFL360. It's a stuff up, specifically AOD9604. That's all they were talking about. Typical Australian govt depts, like our politicians none of them can be trusted..It's a mess,a stuff up, whatever you want to call it..

It may well be, but there is still the case of a football club not knowing what they've injected into their players, a coach who set about supplementing players to get bigger and stronger to challenge sides who he believed to be using HGH and a supply chain that involved a convicted drug trafficker.

That's not even getting into the Thymosin, doctor shopping, missing letters and findings of the Ziggy report.

AOD might have been wrongly signed off by ASADA, but there are still plenty of questions headed Essendon's way, and I'm sure WADA are taking quite an interest.

And don't forget, the AFL have always stated that the status of AOD was subject to interpretation.

 

[QuietB]

It may well be, but there is still the case of a football club not knowing what they've injected into their players, a coach who set about supplementing players to get bigger and stronger to challenge sides who he believed to be using HGH and a supply chain that involved a convicted drug trafficker.

That's not even getting into the Thymosin, doctor shopping, missing letters and findings of the Ziggy report.

AOD might have been wrongly signed off by ASADA, but there are still plenty of questions headed Essendon's way, and I'm sure WADA are taking quite an interest.

And don't forget, the AFL have always stated that the status of AOD was subject to interpretation.

And add to this the interview consisted of an Essendon apologist as the interviewer, a paid Essendon consultant as the interviewee and another Essendon apologist as chief fanboy.

The advise may well be correct, but the logic simply does not stack up for me. How can a drug that is still in the development phase even be considered under S2? There is no final data. How do they make the assessment?

 

[Flukey!]

AOD, it turns out is not illegal.
So, have the bombers actually done anything wrong?

 

[LuvMyHawks]

AOD, it turns out is not illegal.
So, have the bombers actually done anything wrong?

Flukey, it IS a BANNED SUBSTANCE, regardless of what ASADA or AFL states, or the scum,WADA have the power over this sanction. An interesting interview with Dick Pound this morning, the former boss of WADA..
Surely on the vials of AOD9604 or the cream they used, there would be a label that states it is NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (under SO..)

 

[Argy]

I think WADA has confirmed that AOD9604 is banned for use by athletes. However, if the reports are true it appears that ASADA misinformed both the AFL and Essendon as to its proper status. I find that highly unlikely, but if it really is true then it will not alter the fact that the players took a banned substance, but will surely mitigate the punishment.

Of course AOD9604 is only one component of this whole mess, so I expect to see a lot more sh*t to be hitting a lot more fans before this is over.

 

[burner1]

It's really irrelevant if Asada incorrectly informed the afl that aod was okay in march (and I have my doubts at the story anyway - is their any written proof?) - essendon would need to prove they got incorrectly informed back in 2012 when they actually used it on players. As I understand it this haven't been proved. This is like the argument tried on from a few months ago as the wording in the ACC report wasn't clear that aod was okay - again ingnoring the sequence of events.

I'm interested to find out who essendon will try to stick this mess on - the afl is trying the narrative that we need to protect the players and the senior essendon coaches are to blame - but hird & co aren't going quietly. The CEO stepped down and aside from dean Robinson(who the afl didn't charge - scapegoat?) essendon is trying to argue that everyone else is in the clear - despite hird having his hands all over this mess - have we forgotten the 100s of text msg a between hird and dank?? I also don't understand how Bruce Reid or danny corcoran could be in the clear - so the players got 30-40 injections and they didn't know anything about it? Yeah right.

Essendon keep trying to muddy the waters here but the facts that can't even tell their players what they were injected with in a massiv club sanctioned program is enough for the club to be thrown the book at. And this is before the player suspensions that I reckon are still coming. Rather than addressing this mess heads on the afl has tried to manage it and it's turned into an even greater saga. At least we may also see the back of demetriou.

 

[Flukey!]

Flukey, it IS a BANNED SUBSTANCE, regardless of what ASADA or AFL states, or the scum,WADA have the power over this sanction. An interesting interview with Dick Pound this morning, the former boss of WADA..
Surely on the vials of AOD9604 or the cream they used, there would be a label that states it is NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION (under SO..)

You saw the same thing I did last night. ASADA confirmed to the AFL that it is not illegal.
The players surely cannot be penalised now, regardless what opposition supporters might want to happen.