The graveyard thread for endless off topic posturing on persons causing bi-polar responses

[JimmyBeerCans]

Ken was making excuses for Chad in the middle of the year. It is not surprising that the club sent Ken and Voss away for the leadership / management course in the USA during trade period.

Pity we didn't piss off those two numbskulls and retain our star players.

 

[Magus]

Boak served as captain for as long as anyone has. He wasn't forced to step down, it was just time to hand it over.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Polly on that North Melbourne video saying there were similarities with Port as the smaller club in Adelaide blah blah made me chortle though.. have fun in Tassie & Emptyhad old mate.

 

[Willsy10]

"Wingard is an introverted loner who's not popular his teammates and never turns up at Chadbro's BBQs. He's got an attitude problem as well but we can't be ****** fixing it because he'll never be one of the boys. Come to think of it we've got another one of those in Polec. He wants more money, but he's a strange cat who marches to the beat of a different drum and that'll never change so **** him as well. Not sure what to tell the fans - maybe trot out some bullshit about poor HRVs and see if they'll buy it."

What are HRV's?


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[Visenfest]

Polly on that North Melbourne video saying there were similarities with Port as the smaller club in Adelaide blah blah made me chortle though.. have fun in Tassie & Emptyhad old mate.

Yeah he's never playing in front of a home crowd above 30K again. He might want to find a different comparison.

 

[Elite Crow]

Club has been trying for three years to get Wingard to wake up! Interestingly, the tactic of telling him he is free to "explore his options" was also tried on Hartlett. He chose to stay at Port, and got his act together, playing the best he had ever played prior to his injury!

Wingard got the snots & chose to walk!

"Seeya."

Can I point out the obvious? Hartlett had 3 or 4 years left on a generous contract, suitors weren’t line up because of this and he was playing ordinary football. He had no choice but to stay and pull his finger out if he wanted a decent afl career.

He’s done well to turn it around but you can’t compare to Wingard who was playing better football, is a better footballer and had only 1 year of a deal left.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yeah he's never playing in front of a home crowd above 30K again. He might want to find a different comparison.

North play a home game against Collingwood nearly every year so there is that chance. Plus Essendon and Richmond I guess.

 

[OneGreatClub]

What are HRV's?


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Ask Janus

 

[Janus]

You replace him with somebody hungrier than Wingard if he was that much trouble.

We dont beat Geelong, We dont beat WCE at AO so they are the perfect type games to say go play in the twos and learn some lessons. Shit we don't beat Freo in Perth - apart from that final.

You can't have it both ways. If he is lazy, not motivated, not team first often enough, you drop him. DBJ was 20 minutes late to training and he got dropped.

This was just more yo-yo management that produced yo-yo results.

Wingard was dropped for the rest of his career at Port Adelaide when he was traded. Any lessons he's going to learn can be learned at Hawthorn. So we didn't have it both ways - we chose to get rid of him rather than drop him, because while a young player can learn lessons, a player who is 25 should be old enough to not have to be babysat anymore in terms of discipline.

The yo-yo string has been cut.

 

[Pappagallo]

Wingard was dropped for the rest of his career at Port Adelaide when he was traded. Any lessons he's going to learn can be learned at Hawthorn. So we didn't have it both ways - we chose to get rid of him rather than drop him, because while a young player can learn lessons, a player who is 25 should be old enough to not have to be babysat anymore in terms of discipline.

The yo-yo string has been cut.

Putting an arbitrary age limit on the ability to learn is the biggest cop out yet. Why did we even bother dropping Watts, who is 2 years older than Wingard, if this has any validity whatsoever?

 

[Janus]

Putting an arbitrary age limit on the ability to learn is the biggest cop out yet. Why did we even bother dropping Watts, who is 2 years older than Wingard, if this has any validity whatsoever?

Watts was dropped because of his performance and the fact that he didn't fully understand his role in the team.

Wingard's issues weren't anything to do with his performance. As I've been told several times, he finished 6th in the B&F. The issue was that the players around him didn't want to play for him when he was in the middle, because they knew what a slack ass he was on the training track and how much of a sook he is when he gets reprimanded - he went from being selfish in front of goal to being a dick about it and passing off all the time. It's no surprise that as soon as Wingard went into the centre, it wasn't long before we started losing games that we should have won.

You're not fixing that with a simple game in the seconds. That shit is irreparable. I've said it before - he's Steamin' Willie Beamen.

I'm just glad the club finally took a stand and made him choose one way or another. Maybe he'll mature at the Hawks and come back and finish his career at PAFC. I'd like that. But I'm not going to say the club ****ed up with how they treated him, because I'm damned sure they tried everything they possibly could.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Regardless of how you came to this dodgy assumption Janus If there are any players on the team that are not willing to work for a certain teammate(s) they are weak as piss & shouldn't be at the club anymore either and we are doomed beyond belief.

 

[Elite Crow]

Regardless of how you came to this dodgy assumption Janus If there are any players on the team that are not willing to work for a certain teammate(s) they are weak as piss & shouldn't be at the club anymore either and we are doomed beyond belief.

Has this been established that players did not want to play for Wingard?

 

[bomberclifford]

ITT: people who want the club to hold those within it to account, but also don't like it when they do.

 

[Janus]

Regardless of how you came to this dodgy assumption Janus If there are any players on the team that are not willing to work for a certain teammate(s) they are weak as piss & shouldn't be at the club anymore either and we are doomed beyond belief.

If one person isn't willing to work for the others, why should the others work for them? It doesn't seem very fair to me. It's supposed to be a team sport. One in, all in.

You're pretending like these guys are robots and shouldn't have any emotions about one player being able to slack off during training while the rest of them have to bust their ass. If anyone was as weak as piss, it was Wingard. And guess what? He's not at the club anymore.

 

[Janus]

Can I point out the obvious? Hartlett had 3 or 4 years left on a generous contract, suitors weren’t line up because of this and he was playing ordinary football. He had no choice but to stay and pull his finger out if he wanted a decent afl career.

He’s done well to turn it around but you can’t compare to Wingard who was playing better football, is a better footballer and had only 1 year of a deal left.

Essendon tabled him a contract and, according to media reports at the time, were willing to give up their first round pick to get him. He could have left if he wanted to. Hartlett's 'generous' contract was signed before the new CBA and was signed for less than others were offering as a free agent.

The difference between Hartlett and Wingard is that Hartlett acknowledged his limitations as a footballer (which had nothing to do with intent, but physical capabilities) and worked on solving the issue. Wingard believed that he didn't have any limitations that needed to be worked on, which is why instead of becoming more professional and improving himself he was off playing Fortnite.

On a scale of Robbie Gray to Harley Bennell, Wingard is closer to Bennell than Gray. Insane talent, poor application. I really hope he turns it around at Hawthorn, but it was never going to happen here.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

If one person isn't willing to work for the others, why should the others work for them? It doesn't seem very fair to me. It's supposed to be a team sport. One in, all in.

You're pretending like these guys are robots and shouldn't have any emotions about one player being able to slack off during training while the rest of them have to bust their ass. If anyone was as weak as piss, it was Wingard. And guess what? He's not at the club anymore.

Yet you conjure up nothing but an army of robots philosophy year in year out.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

It's all a crock of shit in reality of course because anyone who has played the game understands in the heat of the kitchen there's not much room to pick and choose fav teammates it''s all about best options and sticking to basic team rules and structure.

You'd have to be a special kind of idiot to sabotage your own game because you don't wanna run hard to support some geezer who doesn't train as hard as you.

 

[Elite Crow]

Essendon tabled him a contract and, according to media reports at the time, were willing to give up their first round pick to get him. He could have left if he wanted to. Hartlett's 'generous' contract was signed before the new CBA and was signed for less than others were offering as a free agent.

The difference between Hartlett and Wingard is that Hartlett acknowledged his limitations as a footballer (which had nothing to do with intent, but physical capabilities) and worked on solving the issue. Wingard believed that he didn't have any limitations that needed to be worked on, which is why instead of becoming more professional and improving himself he was off playing Fortnite.

On a scale of Robbie Gray to Harley Bennell, Wingard is closer to Bennell than Gray. Insane talent, poor application. I really hope he turns it around at Hawthorn, but it was never going to happen here.

Got links to this Essendon offer? Essendon had pick 1 so I doubt they were offering their first rounder. Also where were Essendon as a club at this time? Big difference to the Hawks and Clarkson courting you.

As for a generous contract, I made an error, it wasn’t 3-4 years left on a deal, it was 5. Not even close to being able to compare the contract statuses of Hartlett and Wingard and the impact this has on whether a player stays or goes.

 

[malcheski]

What are HRV's?


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If I’m not mistaken....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Duck Farmer]

Club has been trying for three years to get Wingard to wake up! Interestingly, the tactic of telling him he is free to "explore his options" was also tried on Hartlett. He chose to stay at Port, and got his act together, playing the best he had ever played prior to his injury!

Passive Aggressive FC, Est. 1870.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Let’s Talk Posturing! Part 2.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Nobody is putting in less effort because they don't like one particular teammate. Nobody is failing to but a block in or not giving a handball just because they don't like a teammate. This isn't U12s. You simply don't have time to look at who you're blocking for or handballing to at AFL level.

This is as daft as the notion that Houston was handballing to someone's feet because he didn't like them.

If Wingard was playing so selfishly that his teammates didn't want to play with him, either the leadership group or the coaches should have stepped in and dropped him for a week, but nobody is ever accountable at this club for anything so nobody did it.

But ultimately, this was a probably that started to show it's head in 2017 or at the latest, the 2018 preseason. Why wasn't it successfully solved before it became a major issue?

 

[Janus]

It's all a crock of shit in reality of course because anyone who has played the game understands in the heat of the kitchen there's not much room to pick and choose fav teammates it''s all about best options and sticking to basic team rules and structure.

You'd have to be a special kind of idiot to sabotage your own game because you don't wanna run hard to support some geezer who doesn't train as hard as you.

You forget that you're dealing with people.

While there is no room to pick and choose favourite teammates in a situation where a couple of guys don't get along, if everyone in the team is on the same page about a person, it's not going to end well.

What you're talking about is people running hard so that another player can look better. Remember, Wingard was put into the middle as the prime centre square clearance player. He wasn't just a run of the mill half back flank or even a small forward. He's the guy everyone else has to work for. The guy that everyone is busting their ass on the training track for.

When Robbie Gray goes into the middle, you can see the players lift because they know he's done the hard work. So they don't mind the bruises and the bumps that receive so that he can get the ball and run with it. They don't mind running in support of him.

Why did that never happen with Wingard? Because of his attitude towards his teammates. He showed them zero respect when he didn't put in the effort that they were doing at training. And anyone who thinks that he was a 'special case' because he was a star player better take a damned good look at the sort of player they want at Port Adelaide, because the attitude of Port Adelaide was always that everyone put their head in the hole when it was their turn.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You forget that you're dealing with people.

While there is no room to pick and choose favourite teammates in a situation where a couple of guys don't get along, if everyone in the team is on the same page about a person, it's not going to end well.

What you're talking about is people running hard so that another player can look better. Remember, Wingard was put into the middle as the prime centre square clearance player. He wasn't just a run of the mill half back flank or even a small forward. He's the guy everyone else has to work for. The guy that everyone is busting their ass on the training track for.

When Robbie Gray goes into the middle, you can see the players lift because they know he's done the hard work. So they don't mind the bruises and the bumps that receive so that he can get the ball and run with it. They don't mind running in support of him.

Why did that never happen with Wingard? Because of his attitude towards his teammates. He showed them zero respect when he didn't put in the effort that they were doing at training. And anyone who thinks that he was a 'special case' because he was a star player better take a damned good look at the sort of player they want at Port Adelaide, because the attitude of Port Adelaide was always that everyone put their head in the hole when it was their turn.

Players did apply blocks for Wingard though, he had solid clearance and I50 numbers throughout the 2nd half of our season, indicating that his teammates were making space for him and putting in blocks and handballs to help him out.

Yes, the team began to lose, but our clearance numbers didn't change significantly between the first half and the second half of the season. The prevailing theory on that is that we weren't actually that good in the first half of the season and ultimately got what we deserved.

I'm not saying that Wingard's teammates liked him, i'm just saying that in the heat of a stoppage, you don't have time to look at who your teammate is specifically and decide whether to put a block on for him or not.