The Hawks At Princes Park

[footyfan1978]

Fitzroy played at Victoria Park for home games in 1986 and moved back to princess park in 87. Glenferire oval was boxed in on the outer side by the train line so had no room for expansion. Punt road oval had the same issue with Punt rd getting wider over the years.

Princes Park actually. There is no second s, in the name of the park, but yeah, the year you note looks correct when double check. Went into 1987 season with teams from top 3 of 1986 all sharing Princes Park, but during season 87 Lions dropped away with the stragglers like the Pies.

 

[VinnieB]

I used to live very close to the ground. Made you realise how special the suburban grounds were. Not much better than on game day people filling the cafes and pubs around the area for lunch and then walking through the residential streets en mass to the ground.

The thing with Princess Park and that area is that it belongs to Carlton. Practically all the cafe owners, restaurants etc are Carlton fans. For Hawthorn to make it their 'home' would not have been easy. Would take decades to really have a presence in there.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The article suggests that Hawthorn left Glenferrie Oval out of their own free will. It also claims that Hawthorn decided after a three year trial period, to make Princes Park their permanent base. Are you suggesting that the Hawks actually didn't want to leave Glenferrie Oval at all?

The story from those involved was that the club didn't want to leave but the league told them they had to. I choose to believe that version, but truth is there's been that many invloved we will never really know the truth

 

[Breretonisahood]

The story from those involved was that the club didn't want to leave but the league told them they had to. I choose to believe that version, but truth is there's been that many invloved we will never really know the truth

Glenferrie had massive limitations due to the railway line, shops and houses. Expansion to a 40K ground was impossible without forced resumption of housing. Sad when we left but grew to love Princes Park. Favourite spot HFF main scoreboard end right near the bar and best hot dogs I ever had.

 

[smasha]

I actually don’t mind Lygon St,best Italian food but now sadly alot of restaurants went down in covid times.
My fav cinema resides there,Nova.
Princes Park was a real fortress for the Blues,I remember crowds in the mid 30’s k going ballistic.

I stood under the scaffolding near where the Captain and the Major commentated.

It didn’t have a Hawks feel.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Gavin Excell. Legend.

Correct

 

[speedpeck23]

The story from those involved was that the club didn't want to leave but the league told them they had to. I choose to believe that version, but truth is there's been that many invloved we will never really know the truth

It was promoted by the club as the way forward. Phil Ryan Hawthorn's President at the time campaigned strongly for it. He was a great person for Hawthorn firstly as a player then administrator, Treasurer, Vice President and President. Hawthorn was on struggle street for years both on and off the field financially before the 60's.

During the 50's and 60's he was the first Hawthorn treasurer to get the club into credit consistently . There was no option for growing corporate support at Glenferrie and Princes Park was a much better playing surface, bigger ground, bigger capacity and had corporate facilities which both Carton and Hawthorn further developed and both reaped huge benefit . Peter Becker was instrumental in getting Hawthorn to capitilise on being co-tenant with Carlton,

The atmosphere in the Carlton Social Club was electric when it was a Hawthorn v Carlton.....Dog eat Dog as we virtually shared flags during the 70's and 80's....12 flags in 19 seasons. The only drawback of the ground was that there was no direct train..had to catch tram as well but despite the whole thing was a great success.... until.... The AFL wanted Hawthorn to move to Waverley , along with Collingwood. Things went awry for a while... Collingwood backed out ... Hawthorn had a deal with Carlton which we had to pay out.. that was galling...

My recollection of the rivalry though was that it was all about the Premierships... Hawks would win one then the Blues would follow up the next year and vice versa... it peaked in 86 and 87....Hawks winning the 86 Premiership beating John Elliott in the Fosters Granny was massively cathartic... tempered in 87 when Rhys-Jones put Dermie out of business in 87.

 

[The hands of stone]

The Hawks v Cats game at Princes Park in R6, 1989 was an absolute classic, and an insight into what would play out in the 89 Grand Final. It had everything, with the final score - HAWTHORN 26.15 (171) d GEELONG 25.13 (163)

Cats led by 49 points at half time, and Geelong's full forward kicked 6 first half goals....not Ablett, but a kid called Gavin Exell. He ended with 9 for the game

Hawks kicked 10.6 in the final quarter! It was a game of two halves with Cats booting 9.2 in the 2Q.

Was at the game as a 10 yo .
Me and my mate used to go to all the games at Princess Park .
My main memory of the game was Ablett drilling a goal from the centre .

Was incredible , the crowd around us were in stunned silence for about 5 minutes after it .

 

[Osho]

Was at the game as a 10 yo .
Me and my mate used to go to all the games at Princess Park .
My main memory of the game was Ablett drilling a goal from the centre .

Was incredible , the crowd around us were in stunned silence for about 5 minutes after it .

The game's on YT. Just watched it. Stunning game. GAS on wing then back pocket following dipper down there. Hawks so disciplined to turn it around.

 

[Sttew]

The game's on YT. Just watched it. Stunning game. GAS on wing then back pocket following dipper down there. Hawks so disciplined to turn it around.

Cats were sensational in 89, but Hawks were exceptional

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

It was promoted by the club as the way forward. Phil Ryan Hawthorn's President at the time campaigned strongly for it. He was a great person for Hawthorn firstly as a player then administrator, Treasurer, Vice President and President. Hawthorn was on struggle street for years both on and off the field financially before the 60's.

During the 50's and 60's he was the first Hawthorn treasurer to get the club into credit consistently . There was no option for growing corporate support at Glenferrie and Princes Park was a much better playing surface, bigger ground, bigger capacity and had corporate facilities which both Carton and Hawthorn further developed and both reaped huge benefit . Peter Becker was instrumental in getting Hawthorn to capitilise on being co-tenant with Carlton,

The atmosphere in the Carlton Social Club was electric when it was a Hawthorn v Carlton.....Dog eat Dog as we virtually shared flags during the 70's and 80's....12 flags in 19 seasons. The only drawback of the ground was that there was no direct train..had to catch tram as well but despite the whole thing was a great success.... until.... The AFL wanted Hawthorn to move to Waverley , along with Collingwood. Things went awry for a while... Collingwood backed out ... Hawthorn had a deal with Carlton which we had to pay out.. that was galling...

My recollection of the rivalry though was that it was all about the Premierships... Hawks would win one then the Blues would follow up the next year and vice versa... it peaked in 86 and 87....Hawks winning the 86 Premiership beating John Elliott in the Fosters Granny was massively cathartic... tempered in 87 when Rhys-Jones put Dermie out of business in 87.

Great post mate. As great a team as Hawthorn were in the 80's, beating Carlton in back to back grand finals proved to be beyond them! With the whole thing with Peter Motley and Des English, i think there was no way we were leaving the MCG empty handed that day. It was the same with you guys in 1986. You weren't losing a third successive grand final come hell or high water!

We were strong in that decade and so were Essendon. Richmond of course were strong at the start of that decade too. Geelong, Melbourne and Fitzroy were competitive as well. It was a golden era for footy really.

It is a testament to that Hawks side that they were the team of the decade, because there was a lot of strong teams around. Hawthorn of course won a three peat pretty recently enough as well, but i still think the 2008-2015 Hawthorn team as great as it was just wasn't as good as the 80's Hawks team.

It's a good job Collingwood didn't play you guys in that 1990 finals series, because you wiped the floor with them during the regular season! Of course John Platten could have ended up at Carlton as well. I think we tried pretty hard to secure his signature but of course you guys won that particular battle! Seven grand final appearances in a row, i doubt we'll ever see a team achieve a feat like that again.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I used to live very close to the ground. Made you realise how special the suburban grounds were. Not much better than on game day people filling the cafes and pubs around the area for lunch and then walking through the residential streets en mass to the ground.

The thing with Princess Park and that area is that it belongs to Carlton. Practically all the cafe owners, restaurants etc are Carlton fans. For Hawthorn to make it their 'home' would not have been easy. Would take decades to really have a presence in there.

The Hawks traditional supporter base of course was/is the eastern/south eastern suburbs, so when they moved to Princes Park Hawthorn were moving to a part of town that was all Carlton, Essendon, Collingwood and to a lesser extent North Melbourne in terms of support. That obviously would have felt strange to Hawks fans with their new home ground being on the other side of town!

 

[Sphynx]

Wish the AFL bought it off of Carlton prior to them doing their training facilities.

I'd happily have it as a redeveloped boutique 30-35k stadium and our home ground, shit parking aside. Especially as we are the closest neighbour to Carlton.

Hawthorn can move to Etihad and can start paying the bills to the AFL in their dormant years, the MGG is far too big for most of their games anyway.

This would be the ideal arrangement imo.

Etihad - Essendon, St Kilda, WB, Hawthorn
MCG - Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood
Princess Park - Carlton, North

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Wish the AFL bought it off of Carlton prior to them doing their training facilities.

I'd happily have it as a redeveloped boutique 30-35k stadium and our home ground, s**t parking aside. Especially as we are the closest neighbour to Carlton.

Hawthorn can move to Etihad and can start paying the bills to the AFL in their dormant years.

This would be the ideal arrangement imo.

Etihad - Essendon, St Kilda, WB, Hawthorn
MCG - Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood
Princess Park - Carlton, North

Would you not prefer to redevelop Arden Street instead? We really should never have went to Docklands Stadium imo, we should have stayed where we were and expanded Princes Park imo.

 

[footyfan1978]

Would you not prefer to redevelop Arden Street instead? We really should never have went to Docklands Stadium imo, we should have stayed where we were and expanded Princes Park imo.

The expansion was already ruined with Elliott building the stupid design of Legends Stand. Sadly, we just needed another President by that time that had different thinking. All too late now, Arden Street and Princes Park have lost many of the important stands that made the character of each ground. They are just ovals now. Least Princes Park still has the Gardner Stand but that is all that left in terms of sense of connection to the past for me.

 

[Sphynx]

Would you not prefer to redevelop Arden Street instead? We really should never have went to Docklands Stadium imo, we should have stayed where we were and expanded Princes Park imo.

In an ideal world, of course.

I'm just being realistic. Stadium infrastructure isn't privately funded in this country, it's publicly funded.

The State Govt isn't chipping in the cost of a hospital upgrade or 20 x school upgrades for a single AFL club to tenant it when they sold a $1b asset for peanuts a few km's up the road to the AFL.

Princess Park had some stand infrastructure already in place. Realistically you could have done amenities upgrades (much needed) to the older stands and built a brand new stand with modern media facilities and corporates suites to one side of the ground.

North could have definitely been a co-tennant but under a shared revenue scheme, not under Carlton ownership.

It's all a moot point, the training facilities have built out any real stadium potential imo.

I actually think a smaller version of Adelaide Oval - 30-35k with a grass hill at one end based in Melbourne would be an incredible venue for footy. And incredibly well supported by the public.

Princess Park would work perfectly given the bushy surrounds and the long running public transport problems to that area are about to be solved with the new underground rail loop station servicing Melbourne Uni. You could just imagine a modern two sided stand with bars onto the park precinct right next to Melbourne Uni etc...

Arden St would also work fantastically given it has it's own $400m underground station and they are about to spend billions redeveloping the general precinct.

They are the two obvious sites of a 3rd boutique Melbourne Stadium imo given the $12b that's been spent on the Underground Rail loop and about to be completed in the next 18 months.

 

[Father Jack]

I guess the problem is that, if I recall correctly (a big if) when Carlton were fighting to stay at Princes Park they were basically in the worst position in their history and didn't have all that much bargaining power with the AFL, and North Melbourne had already come to the realisation that there wasn't really a full-time place in Melbourne for them anymore.

It will be interesting to see what happens when and if Tassie gets a team and those extra Hawthorn and North games have to go somewhere else.

 

[Sphynx]

I guess the problem is that, if I recall correctly (a big if) when Carlton were fighting to stay at Princes Park they were basically in the worst position in their history and didn't have all that much bargaining power with the AFL, and North Melbourne had already come to the realisation that there wasn't really a full-time place in Melbourne for them anymore.

It will be interesting to see what happens when and if Tassie gets a team and those extra Hawthorn and North games have to go somewhere else.

Sincerely hope it's to a Bendigo etc.

Especially with the amount about to get pumped into regional Vic for the Comm Games infrastructure upgrades.

It could be good timing for Bendigo/Ballarat in that regard.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I guess the problem is that, if I recall correctly (a big if) when Carlton were fighting to stay at Princes Park they were basically in the worst position in their history and didn't have all that much bargaining power with the AFL, and North Melbourne had already come to the realisation that there wasn't really a full-time place in Melbourne for them anymore.

It will be interesting to see what happens when and if Tassie gets a team and those extra Hawthorn and North games have to go somewhere else.

Ian Collins the then Carlton president was also CEO of Docklands Stadium, so there would've been a vested interest on his side to take Carlton out of Princes Park as well.

 

[QuietB]

Wish the AFL bought it off of Carlton prior to them doing their training facilities.

I'd happily have it as a redeveloped boutique 30-35k stadium and our home ground, s**t parking aside. Especially as we are the closest neighbour to Carlton.

Hawthorn can move to Etihad and can start paying the bills to the AFL in their dormant years, the MGG is far too big for most of their games anyway.

This would be the ideal arrangement imo.

Etihad - Essendon, St Kilda, WB, Hawthorn
MCG - Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood
Princess Park - Carlton, North

it is public land isn't it? Carlton don't own it to sell.

 

[footyfan1978]

Sincerely hope it's to a Bendigo etc.

Especially with the amount about to get pumped into regional Vic for the Comm Games infrastructure upgrades.

It could be good timing for Bendigo/Ballarat in that regard.

Would love to see AFL footy in Bendigo region at some point.

 

[Sphynx]

it is public land isn't it? Carlton don't own it to sell.

Unsure, do they have a long term lease?

Which trust/organisation owns the building?

 

[QuietB]

Unsure, do they have a long term lease?

Which trust/organisation owns the building?

I don't think a single club has ever owned the land their ground was on.

 

[deck]

Princes Park actually. There is no second s, in the name of the park, but yeah, the year you note looks correct when double check. Went into 1987 season with teams from top 3 of 1986 all sharing Princes Park, but during season 87 Lions dropped away with the stragglers like the Pies.

I here I was think all these years it was Princess instead of Princes.

 

[footyfan1978]

I here I was think all these years it was Princess instead of Princes.

Most people pronounce it how you spelt it so not surprising. I grew up in the era where fixture had names of grounds spelt out and the media listed them too. But if you born later when naming rights came in vogue it not surprising how many people spell it wrong now. A browse of thread shows most spell it wrong. For me it is like seeing people spell Jeff Thomson as Thompson...drives me crazy ..lol... but a losing battle in internet era where the wrong one can go viral with later generations. This looks the same losing battle....the wrong one is becoming the one most spell it as