The Hawthorn Defensive Unit

[DannyJ]

Assumption: Trent Croad won't play.

Players in our 22 that can be part of the back 6 during the game:

Josh Gibson (CHB)
Stephen Gilham (FB)
Ryan Schoenmakers (Third tall)
Rick Ladson (BP/HBF)
Brent Guerra (BP)
Grant Birchall (HBF)
Xavier Ellis (HBF)
Campbell Brown (versatile defender)----Potentially a FWD in 2010.
Luke Hodge (versatile defender)----Potentially playing midfield in 2010.

We have 9 players who I deem in our best 22 that can be part of our back 6. That a pretty solid foundation.

I think when looking at our defence, it looks premiership capable when Luke Hodge is in it. That is why I will select him as a HBF as I think our midfield really has the depth to still be sublime.

Guerra Gilham Schoenmakers
Birchall Gibson Hodge

Rick Ladson as the 7th mad can play off the bench resting players and also allowing players such as Hodge to have stints in the midfield. Every good team has a solid back 7.

Ellis and Brown can play roles, but I am hoping Xavier plays a midfield role in 2010(no doubt he will relieve certain players at times). It is time he lives up to his No. 3 selection consistently. Campbell Brown might play defence, however will need to return to his 2007 form if he wants to. otherwise I think his competitivness can be utilised up forward also providing the team with 30 goals in 2010.

The Unknown: Potentially Ryan Schoenmakers in his 2nd year could be spectacular. He has had some solid experience and coped well, has bulked up and looks to be having a good pre-season. Hopefully he can have a very good 2010. Really fits the Hawthorn defensive mould very well, has closing speed a good kick, and will learn to play the zone.

Big Year For: Stephen Gilham. Having injury set backs in 2009, and a few niggles this pre-season. He will be in full training in January. As a key member of the 2008 premiership he needs to return back to form and build his confidence base back to the heights of 2008 and leave 2009 in his wake.



Overall, I think our defence can perform very well. I think Stratton can be a good replacement for short term injuries to the likes of Gilham/Gibson/Schoenmakers, I suppose Murphy is in Strattons boat aswell, but I think Ben has more potential. We have numerous flanker types to cover our smaller defenders if injuries occur.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

.

If we can keep the players you have named there on the park for the greater part of the season , Danny, our defence will be quite sound. Actually there is more to like about the ingredients those players can dish up than what made up our defence on the last day of September 2008.

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[Franko Armani]

I think Murphy will be a walk up start in our back six regardless of what us supporters think. Just out of interest, would a player in the leadership group be considered a "reserve" player by the coaches?

As for the OP, we do look to have much better depth in our backline for 2010. Looks good so far!

 

[buddylg]

I think Murphy will be a walk up start in our back six regardless of what us supporters think. Just out of interest, would a player in the leadership group be considered a "reserve" player by the coaches?

As for the OP, we do look to have much better depth in our backline for 2010. Looks good so far!

Yeah I wonder about this. Who would Murphy replace? Then again Tim Clarke was in the leadership group and wasn't a walk up start

 

[Bosk]

Indeed it's a very versatile backline, and one that will potentially generate lots of momentum bringing the ball out of defense.

That said there is an obvious lack of height and size among the players you've listed. Teams like Brisbane (Brown & Fev) could really stretch us unless our midfield dominates. Nor am I terribly keen on watching Hodge play at half back flank, I think it's a terrible waste of a player of his talent. A fit hodge playing 22 games in the center would be at very short Brownlow odds.


I think it's going to take something special for us to win a premiership with our current crop of defenders. That special ingredient could be Shoenmakes becoming an elite defender, or Clarkson coming up with a gameplan that really plays to our strengths and confounds other teams.

 

[beau river]

Here's hoping Birch hasn't yet reached his potential and can find a few tricks to his game. Ditto Gilham, Murph, Ladson.

We have a group of good defenders, hopefully by midway through the season we see some champions emerge (Hodge aside).

 

[Jaeger]

It would be great if Ellis and Hodge rotated through HB and the midfield.

I have big expectations for Gibson but I will be giving him plenty of time to settle in and get a good feel for it.

A fit Ladson will eliminate the issues we had in 09 in getting the ball out of the back half safely. Would love to hear how he's traveling.

Would be great if Goo gets back to the form where he cops the odd forward tag!

Hoping Birchall will take the game on they way he use to prior to his hammy injury in the NAB cup this year. I think the injury took away his confidence to run and carry. He has been a great contributor since his debut and I'm hopeful he can have a big injury free year.

Gilham I've always liked. Haven't been disappointed in him once. Like you said Danny, if comes back from the christmas break and has a strong few months he will hold our defense in 2010. Was he in the rehab group last Tuesday?

I hope Schoey gets games consistently next year. Already is reliable and has shown so much. I get excited seeing photos of him with the bigger body now.

Brown, the 2007 AA back pocket, can play at either end as we know.

Murphy is great depth and from what I've seen of young Stratts he looks impressive.

The thing that gets me the most excited about this scintillating back half is that besides the rucks, it is our weakest area.

Would love to see future threads on the midfield and forward line units.

Great thread.

 

[worthy]

Murphy
Milne
Stratton
Skipper (maybe)

These players will be important depth defenders to cover for injuries, hopefully they can step up when/if required and allow us to maintain a balanced team, without having to drag players back to cover holes.

 

[BaliHawk]

Our defensive depth is developing into a solid unit, wouldn't surprise me that younger players like Milne, Whitecross, Muston (he's a bit older) and Suckling show a bit when called upon. Milne in particular impresses me with his ability to read play and create, he looks like he has grown a bit also.

Add them to your regular mature contributors and recruits plus your versitile wingers that can drop back and we are far better off heading into 2010 at this stage with no injuries of sorts to worry about.

 

[Brownie_30]

I think Murphy will be a walk up start in our back six regardless of what us supporters think.

Don't know about a walk up but I think he'll play the majority of games.

I think people need to temper there expectations on Shoe a little, the talent is there for all to see, but you have to remember players his size usually take a little more time (see Rough and to be fair he was early to come on for a KPP). I think all that can be expected is he can play about 15 games with the majority of those being solid performances and improve on his last year - anything else is a bonus.

 

[real hawk]

IF Shaun Bourgoyne can get fit and play in the midfield then expect Clarko to use the great man Luke Hodge to devastating effect as a defensive general in 2010, his hardness, skill, and reading of the play will be a nightmare for the opposition now that he is fully fit, with the odd go in the midfield perhaps changing with Burger he will be one of the players of the competition next year and our defence will be tough to crack for any side.

 

[Brishawk]

IF Shaun Bourgoyne can get fit and play in the midfield then expect Clarko to use the great man Luke Hodge to devastating effect as a defensive general in 2010, his hardness, skill, and reading of the play will be a nightmare for the opposition now that he is fully fit, with the odd go in the midfield perhaps changing with Burger he will be one of the players of the competition next year and our defence will be tough to crack for any side.

I don't think we will see Hodge camped on the HBF line this year. I think defensively we were poor last year due to the breakdown of our defensive structures (due largely to the fitness and experience of our players). But I also noticed that we were seldom able to free Hodge up in the back half. Teams are just not prepared to leave him on his own. This resulted in him spending some time in the midfield in the later part of the season. I think we have the players in our back half for it to stand on its own.

I would really prefer him to play all over the ground, in particular in the centre and up forward as he has such a high hurt factor that he will win us more games in those positions than in the back half.

 

[pipcoo]

Gibbo will take Hodge's mentoring roll down back, Hodge will play middle all year. Lot's of player names being listed here, let's keep it simple & work with the best players available at each game. Attacking forward pressure thru hodge mitchell & co will keep it quiet down back.Tom Murphy will be a far better player in 2010.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our defence cops a baking from the trolls of BF, but a lot of them fail to recognise just what that group was able to achieve in 2008.

If we get our best candidates on the field as the OP has suggested we'll be very good in the back half, regardless of if Croad returns or not.

I could go into a bit more, but I'm feeling the pressure of the working week.

We'll be ok in 2010. Just you wait and see.

 

[hawkstars]

Yeah I wonder about this. Who would Murphy replace? Then again Tim Clarke was in the leadership group and wasn't a walk up start

Was thinking the same thing.

 

[DannyJ]

Murphy cannot be selected because he is in the 'leadership group'. Many tasks of this group are off-field and on the training track. In theory generally they should be in your best 22, however he is not, but still can add value as Clarke did off field.

 

[parsons nose]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned other worthy candidates that could be thrown into the mix. Expect more game time from one matty suckling this year. I think he could be the man that frees up Hodgey to play in the mid field. Any-one who watched Box hill last year would know how damaging he is with the ball in his hands. I expect Whitecross to be a regular fixture in the back six this season after one of the more impressive debuts I have witnessed in recent years at Hawthorn. His decision making and strength around the contest given his age is a real asset. Dont be surprised if Jordan Lisle presses hard this year given his impressive finals performance at BH. He has height and mobility and I believe will ensure pressure is applied to those ahead of him in the pecking order. FWIW I honestly believe despite his spasmodic success as a forward, Browny is a better proposition in the back half. For mine its Goo, Gilhammer, Brown dog, Whitecross, Gibbo, Suckers with Shoey off the bench.

 

[WeneedyoungJarmans]

Best Back 6:

Guerra Gilham Birchall
Ladson Gibson Hodge

Backups - Shoenmakers, Ellis, Whitecross, Murphy, Tuck, Milne, Lisle, Suckling, Stratton, Williams, Milne

Any one or two of Shoe, Ellis, Whitecross or Murphy could be in the back 6 at any pt in time and still make up a very strong outfit.

What is seemingly Hawthorn's weakness is shaping over the next development year or two to become Hawthorn's strength.

With extra depth comes flexibility:

Any one of Hodge, Ellis, Ladson, Whitecross, Tuck, Williams could be moved into a midfield role.

Let's not forget folks that this so called weak backline won a premiership in 2008 and did so largely without the contribution of Croad on the big day. I think with Gibson and now Shoenakers and the development of Lisle and Milne, we shall quickly compensate for his absence.

I don't think they are undersized either. Gilham (191cm), Birchall (192cm), Shoenmakers (194cm), Gibson (189cm), Murphy (189cm), Lisle (196cm), Milne (193cm), Stratton (189cm)

If you combine Gilham, Birchall, Shoenmakers and Gibson, it won't be short at all. Tall enough but so dangerous on the counter.

I am more excited about our backline than where our forward line is headed.

Despite the likes of Petersen, Moss, Hooper, Stokes, Morton, Dowler giving us depth in the small/medium forward stakes, Williams is a big game player that simply cannot be replaced by a role player.

Franklin is our big game tall, Williams was our big game small. None of the little guys will fill the Willow void when the pressure cooker gets set to high in 2010 finals. Perhaps only Rioli or Osborne can fill that sort of void playing as a permanent small forward.

 

[Wally Carter]

Assumption: Trent Croad won't play.

Players in our 22 that can be part of the back 6 during the game:

Josh Gibson (CHB)
Stephen Gilham (FB)
Ryan Schoenmakers (Third tall)
Rick Ladson (BP/HBF)
Brent Guerra (BP)
Grant Birchall (HBF)
Xavier Ellis (HBF)
Campbell Brown (versatile defender)----Potentially a FWD in 2010.
Luke Hodge (versatile defender)----Potentially playing midfield in 2010.

Not bad rebounding strength but I think you will struggle against the Gorillas. Gilham is a little light and Schoenmakers is still too immature.

Who is going to match up on the Daveys, Nahas's, Harveys, Campbells, Lovetts etc?

 

[DannyJ]

Not bad rebounding strength but I think you will struggle against the Gorillas. Gilham is a little light and Schoenmakers is still too immature.

Who is going to match up on the Daveys, Nahas's, Harveys, Campbells, Lovetts etc?

Guerra/Ladson/Brown will all match up on those types when needed. The greatest way to stop small players of that ilk is more structually based within your defence and your strategy, rather than actual players keeping a leash on them.

If you play one-on-one with Rioli/Davey types you will lose. And lose bad.

I agree our rebound is exceptional, that is our defensive strength so to speak, moulds our gameplan very well.

Weakness is a gorilla defender, however a Jon Brown one out on a KPP defender will generally take marks anyway, due to 'hands in back' and 'chopping the arm' gone. They are therefore less valuable in todays game. Only elite ones are valuable probably 2-3 I rate very highly in the league, the rest have to be liked by umpires to negate forwrads (Presti).

 

[The_Air_Up_There]

I wouldn't be surprised if Skipper plays down back on these "gorillas" every now and then, he's a big body but may lack some pace. In regards to the goal sneaks, Ladson, Ellis and even the likes of Moss etc can play annoying tagging roles if needed.

 

[Brant]

Who is going to match up on the Daveys, Nahas's, Harveys, Campbells, Lovetts etc?

Surely the questions should be asked by melbourne, richmond, north melbourne: "How the hell are we going to stop Buddy; Ruffy; Cyril et al.

Who cares if harvey or campbell or davey kick 4 goals each - so we only win that match by 10 goals...

More worried as to how to shut down the forward lines of good teams such as the Kosi & Reiwoldt; Brown & Fev duos etc.

 

[Wally Carter]

Surely the questions should be asked by.........north melbourne: "How the hell are we going to stop Buddy; Ruffy; Cyril et al.

North are one of the few clubs that have actually done okay in that regard.

Buddy kicked 5 in one game in 2008 and he got away from us in last quarter in Tassie last year, but apart from that we haven't been too bad at containing him.

Roughy has kicked 16 goals in 9 games with 2 performances yielding 9 of those goals.

Cyril averages 13 possessions and has never kicked a goal against North.

 

[hawk life]

Next season we will be much better equipped then even 2008 when we won the premiership.

Our defence is a lot stronger and we have a few more options. Even with Croad not playing. Alot of teams will be surprised how good our backline will be.

Teams who turn the ball over in our backline will be in for a shock. Buddy, roughy and who ever else will be licking their lips. With Goo, birch, suckling (when he plays), ladson and even Gilham can all kick. To be honest all our backman can pin point a pass. We just need most of them to stay fit especially Gilham and Gibbo.

Yes, our backline is a little short but I still think our backline will be in the top 4 for scores against.

I am excited by hopeful development of the younger guys but dont want to put any pressure on them.

OUR BACKLINE IS NOT AS BAD AS WHAT PEOPLE THINK!

 

[JoeHawk]

Guerra/Ladson/Brown will all match up on those types when needed. The greatest way to stop small players of that ilk is more structually based within your defence and your strategy, rather than actual players keeping a leash on them.

If you play one-on-one with Rioli/Davey types you will lose. And lose bad.

I agree our rebound is exceptional, that is our defensive strength so to speak, moulds our gameplan very well.

Weakness is a gorilla defender, however a Jon Brown one out on a KPP defender will generally take marks anyway, due to 'hands in back' and 'chopping the arm' gone. They are therefore less valuable in todays game. Only elite ones are valuable probably 2-3 I rate very highly in the league, the rest have to be liked by umpires to negate forwrads (Presti).

I guess we can always throw Roughy down back to defend against the gorilla's......just a thought, and I think he's been used in that capacity as well before.

But of course, that takes away from our forward line.... point is that we do have some options.