Society/Culture The Impact of AI on Society, School, and Work

[Gethelred]

Am just coming to the end of my third placement in a school - this one being a long one, 25 days - and I didn't hear a ****ing word about plagiarism on my first two placements. On this one, it's come up more or less every day; kids brought up with laptops are entirely too comfortable using copy/paste to answer questions or slot in entire paragraphs. ChatGPT has already been used multiple times in essays, with teachers frequently consulting each other over a few particular assignments because while it's written by hand it doesn't 'sound' like the student in question compared to previous work.

I also have concerns about innate spelling and grammar, as there's a generation of students whose experience has always been scaffolded by a spellcheck. You can tell sometimes if a student is getting saved from themselves by the spellcheck (a word used incorrectly, a sentence that almost makes sense, incorrect version of there or your) but there's entire classrooms full of devices these days. It makes me wonder how this specific cohort will go when/if they get to VCE, when all assessment is written; how do you deal with analogue learning when all you've ever known is electric?

It's also interesting watching literature classes with students completing lengthy written responses on tablets. It's closer to texting than it is typing. It makes me interested to see how that kind of writing habit affects expression or communication.

It's not a bad thing, this stuff. But there are certainly concerns.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

Am just coming to the end of my third placement in a school - this one being a long one, 25 days - and I didn't hear a ******* word about plagiarism on my first two placements. On this one, it's come up more or less every day; kids brought up with laptops are entirely too comfortable using copy/paste to answer questions or slot in entire paragraphs. ChatGPT has already been used multiple times in essays, with teachers frequently consulting each other over a few particular assignments because while it's written by hand it doesn't 'sound' like the student in question compared to previous work.

I also have concerns about innate spelling and grammar, as there's a generation of students whose experience has always been scaffolded by a spellcheck. You can tell sometimes if a student is getting saved from themselves by the spellcheck (a word used incorrectly, a sentence that almost makes sense, incorrect version of there or your) but there's entire classrooms full of devices these days. It makes me wonder how this specific cohort will go when/if they get to VCE, when all assessment is written; how do you deal with analogue learning when all you've ever known is electric?

It's also interesting watching literature classes with students completing lengthy written responses on tablets. It's closer to texting than it is typing. It makes me interested to see how that kind of writing habit affects expression or communication.

It's not a bad thing, this stuff. But there are certainly concerns.

I have no scientific basis for my thinking on the issue, but I've always thought that learning should be completely analogue up until a certain age.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Gethelred]

I have no scientific basis for my thinking on the issue, but I've always thought that learning should be completely analogue up until a certain age.

What are your thoughts on that?

I think that people should be able/capable of doing all of it; you need to be able to use a word processor or keyboard in the same way as you need to be able to write legibly. I saw it once put that teachers these days are preparing students to use programs that have not been written yet, in coding language not fully devised, to solve problems that we haven't conceived of yet; in a lot of ways, we can't really teach students what to learn these days as far as the technology goes.

If anything, there's probably an over-reliance on hand writing within VCE as a solution to cheating/moderation problems (if it's not clear, by moderation I refer to fair marking between teachers and across the entirety of VCE). In the workplace if you write anything by hand, it's because your immediate boss is uncomfortable with computers or there isn't a program to replace what you're writing by hand... yet.

There's also a difficulty in moving between writing by hand and writing using a keyboard. I don't know about other people, but the change from writing by hand to writing on a keyboard did not come naturally to me; it took a number of just scraping through with a pass before I worked out how to find my voice writing on a keyboard, feeling clunky and unable to find a word or think of what comes next. Even when I had a decent flow going mentally, you then look down at the keyboard to find a letter you cannot locate or you see that ugly red or green line below a word and you backspace to check it and all of a sudden you've lost your train of thought.

From a purely pedagogical position, there's teaching theory to justify almost any position on the use of ICT in classrooms or as assessment. The difficulty I'm seeing is trying to cajole kids into reading when they simply don't; video games, youtube, tiktok, netflix and other easy streaming has ostensibly taken over their ability to focus on the written word and float into a story. But a good story is always a good story; I watched a year 8 class a week ago become slowly more and more interested in a short story as part of a feminist perspectives unit because it was a damn good thriller. And there has never been a better time to be a reader, with so many different avenues towards consuming your stories; there's audiobooks, ebooks, kindles, phone apps, computer apps to support readers, etc.

There's also other (actual) teachers on the SRP you might want to ask a similar question to.

I suppose I'm in a position of cautious optimism whilst also trying to cater for difference in learner; if a student responds better to a particular mode of communication, I'm sure as hell going to provide it for them. If a student does not respond well to a mode of communication or expression, I need to alter that assessment or task to try and ensure I'm catering to their needs. I don't think everything need be computer based - and I've no issue telling students to shut their laptops (or to turn off the Pokemon or Mario 64 rom) in a classroom - but computers are ****ing everywhere. It's a profound irony that some seem to refer to a classroom as being not real life, because we have to prepare students for real life within it.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

Good insights. Thanks.

 

[Engimal v3]

How did you get started with this?

At a high level, the website is all done through Django in Python (with some JavaScript assisting on the front end)

I have different "Topics" (e.g. work, mental health, holiday planning). For each topic, the website will load a "perspective". Each perspective will have a number of "assumptions" that I can load in. All of these things (topics, perspectives, assumptions) are modelled and reusable.

From here, I feed in a system prompt saying something along the lines of, "Assume the role of X, discussing with me the topic of Y - with these assumptions: Z"

From there, I'm able to add entries. These might be questions, but they can also just be me logging information. At any time if I want to trigger the AI to provide a response, I click a button (as I might not want this to be every time) and it will display it.

That is all at a very high level - happy to PM if you want any more info.

 

[peetoo]

Am just coming to the end of my third placement in a school - this one being a long one, 25 days - and I didn't hear a ******* word about plagiarism on my first two placements. On this one, it's come up more or less every day; kids brought up with laptops are entirely too comfortable using copy/paste to answer questions or slot in entire paragraphs. ChatGPT has already been used multiple times in essays, with teachers frequently consulting each other over a few particular assignments because while it's written by hand it doesn't 'sound' like the student in question compared to previous work.

I also have concerns about innate spelling and grammar, as there's a generation of students whose experience has always been scaffolded by a spellcheck. You can tell sometimes if a student is getting saved from themselves by the spellcheck (a word used incorrectly, a sentence that almost makes sense, incorrect version of there or your) but there's entire classrooms full of devices these days. It makes me wonder how this specific cohort will go when/if they get to VCE, when all assessment is written; how do you deal with analogue learning when all you've ever known is electric?

It's also interesting watching literature classes with students completing lengthy written responses on tablets. It's closer to texting than it is typing. It makes me interested to see how that kind of writing habit affects expression or communication.

It's not a bad thing, this stuff. But there are certainly concerns.

So there’s no difference from the conditions in the jobs they will eventually occupy?

 

[Gethelred]

So there’s no difference from the conditions in the jobs they will eventually occupy?

This seems to be a question in need of elaboration. Do you think you could explain more precisely what part of that post you would like me to respond to?

 

[peetoo]

This seems to be a question in need of elaboration. Do you think you could explain more precisely what part of that post you would like me to respond to?

It strikes me, as you describe it, that kids are adopting practices they will find familiar in the corporate world ( which have been like that for almost 3 decades now.)
It’s good to hear schools are catching up.

It still as you say relevant to learn to be critical etc. agree with most of your post

 

[Gethelred]

It strikes me, as you describe it, that kids are adopting practices they will find familiar in the corporate world ( which have been like that for almost 3 decades now.)
It’s good to hear schools are catching up.

It still as you say relevant to learn to be critical etc. agree with most of your post

I really cannot emphasize this enough: I am a preservice teacher, still at uni and on placement. While this is my final placement and I'm actively seeking work at the school I'm placed at currently - you can do that towards the end of your degree, largely due to shortages in staff - I have not been a teacher for very long if at all yet.

If you're wanting a snapshot of what they're looking to teach teachers to do, I'm your guy. If you're looking for information about what goes on in a classroom, there are - much - better candidates on the SRP who have been teaching for longer than I have and would be able to share a potentially less theoretical perspective.

 

[cartwright]

This is a good use of AI. Using algorithms based off AI

Paralysed man walks using only his thoughts for the first time in scientific breakthrough

After more than a decade of work by researchers in France and Switzerland, a paralysed man has regained the ability to walk naturally using only his thoughts.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Engimal v3]

I was listening to a podcast where they were saying they think ChatGPT is overrated and will be thought of along the lines of 3D TVs and other passing fads.

That's an incredibly naïve view, in my opinion. Things like ChatGPT and Stable Diffusion were unthinkable and completely inaccessible only a few years ago to most people. Once groundbreaking things like Google Assistant and Amazon Alexa seem archaic in comparison now.

Even in saying that - ChatGPT, Stable Diffusion, DallE, Stanford Alpaca, etc. are still in their infancy. It's impossible to predict what will come of all this in 10, 20 years time.

 

[burge13]

I was listening to a podcast where they were saying they think ChatGPT is overrated and will be thought of along the lines of 3D TVs and other passing fads.

That's an incredibly naïve view, in my opinion. Things like ChatGPT and Stable Diffusion were unthinkable and completely inaccessible only a few years ago to most people. Once groundbreaking things like Google Assistant and Amazon Alexa seem archaic in comparison now.

Even in saying that - ChatGPT, Stable Diffusion, DallE, Stanford Alpaca, etc. are still in their infancy. It's impossible to predict what will come of all this in 10, 20 years time.

Yep. 1st level support IT service desk type roles will be phased out within 5 years, if not sooner. Once systems integrate their business system rules into chatgpt or similar people wont be needed...

Same could be said of alot 1st level support really. Tax rules could be built into systems so less need for accountants, HR rules, list goes on. How far it could go is anyones guess

 

[royale with cheese]

Same could be said of alot 1st level support really. Tax rules could be built into systems so less need for accountants, HR rules, list goes on. How far it could go is anyones guess

Nightmarish. Imagine a system that only plays by the exact rules, can’t be persuaded or routed around.

 

[burge13]

Nightmarish. Imagine a system that only plays by the exact rules, can’t be persuaded or routed around.

Agreed completely but the human robots in our HR are no better . I wont know any different

 

[CD Xbow]

Agreed completely but the human robots in our HR are no better . I wont know any different

I can assure you the AI HR will be much more humane than human HR. As for whoever named help desks.....

I have been playing with this Text To Image - AI Image Generator
Few of us conspiratorial types have posted output on the conspiracy board. Some of them are pretty neat.

Modern Day Event - A.I. Image Generators and Chat

The Best AI Image Generators in 2023

www.bigfooty.com

I asked it to do an image of GG being abducted by a UFO


This is what I got from 'Big Footy Forum' as a prompt


It does seem to have a thing about mutating flesh, the 'Cronenberg Effect';

An earlier poster was concerned re artists. Artists have always had to accommodate the changes that technology brings, as we all do. Think of what Photography did to portraiture and landscape painting, or how audio media changed musician's practice. It will offer new forms of art, such as film presented in the early 20C that artists will be able to create in. The digital, interconnected world offers the whole world as your gallery. So, AI will present its own opportunities. I'm sure artists will manage, finding new ways of expression and will remain as poor and drug addled as they alway have been.

 

[burge13]

I can assure you the AI HR will be much more humane than human HR. As for whoever named help desks.....

The IT unhelpful desk offers sfa with humans. They'll be first replaced by AI imo

 

[peetoo]

Agreed completely but the human robots in our HR are no better . I wont know any different

My better half doesn’t call them ‘human remains’ for nothing

 

[Kwality]

'Pedophiles could use artificial intelligence chatbots to groom children for sexual abuse, Australia’s eSafety Commissioner has warned schools and parents.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/parents-and-teachers-alerted-over-chatbot-child-abuse/news-story/921e780d3e691a997e1315d642d8ec54

“ESafety is concerned about the potential for chatbots to be used as a tool for grooming by starting conversations through social media or gaming platforms to manipulate children and young people,’’ Ms Inman Grant told a federal parliamentary inquiry into the use of AI in education.

“The ability to do this at scale – rather than a perpetrator having to directly participate in a conversation – would constitute an alarming development.

“This demonstrates the need for action in the design of platforms, to anticipate, detect and eliminate the risk upfront, and to build the understanding of children and young people to identify and respond appropriately to grooming behaviours, whether generated by a human or AI.”


FYI https://www.esafety.gov.au/industry/basic-online-safety-expectations

 

[mr bagcroft]

I can assure you the AI HR will be much more humane than human HR. As for whoever named help desks.....

I have been playing with this Text To Image - AI Image Generator
Few of us conspiratorial types have posted output on the conspiracy board. Some of them are pretty neat.

Modern Day Event - A.I. Image Generators and Chat

The Best AI Image Generators in 2023

www.bigfooty.com

I asked it to do an image of GG being abducted by a UFO
View attachment 1696319

This is what I got from 'Big Footy Forum' as a prompt
View attachment 1696322

It does seem to have a thing about mutating flesh, the 'Cronenberg Effect';

An earlier poster was concerned re artists. Artists have always had to accommodate the changes that technology brings, as we all do. Think of what Photography did to portraiture and landscape painting, or how audio media changed musician's practice. It will offer new forms of art, such as film presented in the early 20C that artists will be able to create in. The digital, interconnected world offers the whole world as your gallery. So, AI will present its own opportunities. I'm sure artists will manage, finding new ways of expression and will remain as poor and drug addled as they alway have been.

Not even remotely the same sorts of things. A.I can create that art, full stop. This has no comparison to anything in the past.

 

[ferball]

Not even remotely the same sorts of things. A.I can create that art, full stop. This has no comparison to anything in the past.

AI can create pretty pictures and works of incredible detail and complexity but what do they say about the human condition and life?

 

[mr bagcroft]

AI can create pretty pictures and works of incredible detail and complexity but what do they say about the human condition and life?

zero, and that's why its wrong that we just accept A.I into art.
But the genie is out of the bottle now.

 

[Gethelred]

The problem with simply labelling AI art as 'not art' is that plenty of people throughout history have chosen to reject things which went on to found artistic movements as art before. AI art is in the extreme early stages, and it's limited sure, but how can we know that we've found the correct ways to use it to produce artistic effect?

Right now, what we're seeing is extremely technically proficient child's drawings; if a baby had the skill to produce what they wanted as correctly as possible, that's AI art. This first wave of things isn't art, but I want to see what comes next before I throw too much more shade.

 

[mr bagcroft]

The problem with simply labelling AI art as 'not art' is that plenty of people throughout history have chosen to reject things which went on to found artistic movements as art before. AI art is in the extreme early stages, and it's limited sure, but how can we know that we've found the correct ways to use it to produce artistic effect?

Right now, what we're seeing is extremely technically proficient child's drawings; if a baby had the skill to produce what they wanted as correctly as possible, that's AI art. This first wave of things isn't art, but I want to see what comes next before I throw too much more shade.

It will get better, obviously, and that's the problem. It will be VERY good, it can't not be. And in short time as well.

 

[ferball]

zero, and that's why its wrong that we just accept A.I into art.
But the genie is out of the bottle now.

Look there's plenty of crap art that doesn't say much either.

As a tool it could be great but unless its saying something meaningful to me then i couldn't care less about it I spose.

It won't take long till we're desensitised to the amazing, pretty pictures.

Sure if it (AI or whatever) becomes sentient and conscious (if it isn't already) and starts making art that reflects the amazing loneliness of being the only form of consciousness of its kind. That could really be something.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Look there's plenty of crap art that doesn't say much either.

As a tool it could be great but unless its saying something meaningful to me then i couldn't care less about it I spose.

It won't take long till we're desensitised to the amazing, pretty pictures.

Sure if it (AI or whatever) becomes sentient and conscious (if it isn't already) and starts making art that reflects the amazing loneliness of being the only form of consciousness of its kind. That could really be something.

Taking humans out of the arts is a grave mistake.
I mean WTF is A.I doing in the ****ing arts anyway?!
The no good bag of chips and resistors should be relieving us of menial jobs , so we can concentrate on the arts and lifes other pursuits.
It's all arse backwards.