Steve Dore
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach The Lobbe Lounge - Ruck Coach and Head of Development
- Thread starter Toots Hibbert
- Start date
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Yes, he'd be a perfect fit for the Bulldogs or North. We will reluctantly let him go with a heavy heart.
DaTBird187
What D Farke?
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There is only one person who can say they knew Lobbe's contact was a mistake at the time.
simba_
sucking a lemon
Yes, the Bulldogs or North would do very well to hand over a second round pick for the big man. All Port Adelaide supporters know of his quality. Don't they guys?
Yes, Matthew Lobbe is ensuring the success of our ruck division for years to come. His tap work and contested marking are exceptional. Oh yes and his personal hygiene is above reproach.
bomberclifford
Importer/Exporter
There is only one person who can say they knew Lobbe's contact was a mistake at the time.
... and Portia. She was not pleased at the time.
No, there was no reason to give him a contract. Once we got Ryder any deal for Lobbe should have been off the table.
Ford Fairlane
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Ford Fairlane
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Signing was announced in December after the Ryder deal. But as I posted in another thread, Lobbe had come off a career best year where he was top 10 for hitouts in the league and was renowned for his second efforts and ball hunting. He played a lone hand all year in ruck as we had no back up (other than an injured Renouf on the rookie list and a cooked Redden). He was simply a warrior that year. He was only 25 years old and as is the way with ruckmen coming into his prime. Plus there was the issue of free agency and clubs wanting to lock in important players. We had signed Ryder but the thinking there was probably more for him to play forward and be ruck support to Lobbe rather than take over the ruck like he did.
Any young ruck would need development time and we had missed out on Gorringe as we arm-wrestled Dodoro for the Ryder deal. And in the end Gorringe has wasted away at Carlton anyway. So locking in the lead ruckman at the time was a must.
Anyway all up, I think Port did what needed to be done at the time. It was again in the timing and good luck to Lobbe for having a manager who played all the cards just right.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
There is a place for Ryder + 2014 version of Lobbe. 2 proper ruckman can make an impact. Sydney have been playing 2 all year Naismith and Sinclair and then when Tippett came back in for injuries it was Naismith and Tippett or Sinclair and Tippett. The trouble is the 2016 and 2017 version of Lobbe isn't good enough. 2015 he played a few good games with Paddy and Paddy missed 4 with injury.
There was almost 3 months between us chasing Ryder and Lobbes contract announcement in December.
Regardless, Lobbe only had one good year and was still under contract for next season, so there was no good reason to sign him up for life when we did.
Dylan8
Bar Up
Lobbe is back baby. He's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl)
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
No no no no no no no no.
The Swans rotate Tippett, Sinclair and Naismith because they're all average rucks and they don't lose much by having any one of them rucking instead of the others. Paddy Ryder is the best rap ruckman in the league. Playing Matthew Lobbe (even 2014 model Matthew Lobbe) does nothing but take away Ryder's ruck minutes, and subsequently take away our clearances, hamstring our midfield, reduce the clear ball going into our forward line and increase the pressure on our defence.
Paddy Ryder was All-Australian this year. With Matthew Lobbe in the side he gets nowhere near it. With Matthew Lobbe in the side against St Kilda, maybe it's Matthew Lobbe taking that last ruck contest and we lose that game. With Matthew Lobbe in the side taking away ruck minutes from Paddy's dominant performances against GWS and Hawthorn in 2015, we lose those games. Short of moving Charlie Dixon to the back pocket, there's probably no more damaging selection decision we could make than bringing back Lobbe.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
You obviously can't multi-task because you can only think of one thing at a time.
When you play against sides that have one big monster as their ruck like Sandilands, Goldstein, Mumford, Jacobs etc you play both Ryder and the 2014 version of Lobbe. You tell Lobbe to soften up his opponent. Tell him to jump at the opponent as hard as he can, run into him and use his knees and drive them into his stomach, ribs and other parts of the body at the centre bounce downs and some of the other ball ups. There is nothing illegal about it. You are allowed to do it. You are not allowed to put your arm up and block their run. You tell Lobbe to wrestle his opponent at other ball ups and boundary throw ins. You tell him to work over his opponent and tackle him hard, you know like Mumford tackles blokes. Get him to waste a lot of energy. So when Paddy comes on for his 10-15 minute run on the ball in each quarter and probably rucks all last quarter, his athleticism and ability has an even bigger advantage against a battered and bruised opponent. And you do this against the relevant opponent when its dry, when its wet and late in the season so that you dont drive Ryder into the ground.
Not all 22 games and finals games are played, against exactly the same opponents, in the same conditions as the first Saturday in April when its nice and dry and warm and players aren't worn down by a long hard grinding season. You gotta have different tactics for different situations, not just play the same way for all conditions.
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Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
And if you've ever seen Lobbe play football you'd know that he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body, which means that far from tiring the opposing ruck out, all this strategy is doing is giving Sandilands/Goldstein/Mumford/Jacobs an easier match up for half the game, while also tiring out our midfielders and half forwards out as they have to chase back after more lost clearances. And what do we do with him when Ryder is rucking? You can't just stick him on the bench for half the game, and past evidence suggests that his forward play makes Jackson Trengove look like prime Gary Ablett Snr.
Lobbe plays if Ryder is injured. No more, no less.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
And you have the memory of a gold fish. The 2014 Lobbe was getting down and dirty, lots of tackles, winning contested ball and smashing in. Thats why we gave him a long term contract. He was in the top half a dozen rucks in the league. You are only seeing a bloke who has lost it. You can only picture 2016 and 2017 Lobbe. I dont want that version playing. And the ball doesn't spend 100% of the time deep in our forward 50. You keep Lobbe on the bench for 7 minutes a quarter gives you 28 minutes out of approx 130 minutes which means his TOG % is about 80% basically what mid fielder TOG is. He spends another 7 minutes up on the forward line. **** no, you cant do that, they will run off him and kick 56 goals, seems to be your basic analysis.
Power Raid
We Exist To Win Premierships
I'm really happy to see lobbe perform. Imagine if he could regain his 2014 form or learn to play out of the square
I posted this yesterday.
Well f*** me, I was thinking exactly the same thing today, it would free Ryder up a little to go forward and create havoc with Dixon.
If they are not going in with Marshall, imo Lobbe is playing well, experienced and would be competitive in against WC and also provides a genuine ruck option if Dixon gets injured.
This won't be very poular with most posters i know but think it through.
People forget that Ryder needs to have spells when rucking, with Lobbe in his current form we don't lose to much if we have the correct midfield rotations at the same time. The ball will be going to ground more with Lobster rucking, so that's where your gritty players in Wines, Pepper and Ebo do most of the work and when Paddy comes in the more skillful players go to work, Wingard and Gray types.
Also imo, going into a finals series with just 1 genuine ruckman could be suicide if Paddy get's an early injury during the game.
Unpopular i know but that's why we all have insurance, just in case.
Also imo, going into a finals series with just 1 genuine ruckman could be suicide if Paddy get's an early injury during the game.
Unpopular i know but that's why we all have insurance, just in case.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Billy has great aggression but he needs about another 10 kgs if we are going to use him as a regular battering ram type role I described above, which you might use half a dozen times a year to use the 2014 version of Lobbe in partnership with Ryder. THAT'S THE 2014 VERSION OF LOBBE AND INCASE YOU STILL DONT GET IT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE 2014 VERSION OF LOBBE type player for that role.
Lobbe in 2014 was aggressive, won plenty of hit outs, made plenty of tackles, and was the 5th at the club for clearances in 2014, more than he has achieved in any year, and protected our mid fielders. Our clearance numbers and contested possessions zoomed up the league ladder in 2014 over 2013. In 2014 our stupid ruck philosophy run by Ken and our dopey list managers had a very injury prone Redden and Renouf as the only rucks on the list. Renouf played one game when Lobbe was injured and then did his knee the next game in the SANFL and was out for the season and Redden never got his season started.
Lobbe got tired as a result of having no back up. When we was flying the side was flying. He peaked against Sydney at the SCG when we lost by 4pts. I was there, he played a great game. As he tired and had no support we started losing games. Its why he finished 5th in the B&F votes because he delivered in plenty of games. Why do you reckon they went and got Ryder at the end of the year - the opposite style of ruck to Lobbe?? That way we could have a 2 pronged ruck attack the big bodied dinosaur type and the athletic Ryder type. We already had Renouf and Redden who if fit were already Lobbe types. Why also did we give him a long term deal at the end of 2014? Because he delivered big time for Ken and he lead the midfield group.
You have a poor memory and nobody is calling for the 2016 and 2017 version of Lobbe to play. There are times when two ruckmen of opposite styles are appropriate. There is no need to have Ryder rucking 85%+ of the game for 22 weeks in a row. You manage your players through a heavy season and you do it against the sides where the opposition have a completely different player to Ryder.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have a poor memory.
Sam Jacobs, Todd Goldstein, Jarrod Witts, Billy Longer. All currently the sole ruck at their respective clubs. All players who struggled significantly when asked to share time with another ruckman, but came into their own as #1 ruck, because that's what their skill set is suited for. They don't have the athleticism to play as a #2. Matthew Lobbe is the same. But those guys went from #2 to #1 and thrived, Lobbe went from #1 to #2 and was woefully unsuited for it. 2014 Lobbe was only able to be 2014 Lobbe because he was the sole ruck. You brought up that he was 5th at the club for clearances? Of course he was, he probably would've attended 80% of centre bounces that year because we had nobody else to play his role. He should have been higher than 5th.
A #2 ruck and a #1 ruck need to be very different players. A #2 ruck needs athleticism. They need mobility. They need forward craft. Lobbe does not have any of those things. Ryder does, but using him as a #2 ruck is a waste of his talent. Even if he morphed back into 2014 Lobbe tomorrow, he still wouldn't be in our best 22 because as long as we have Ryder he's not a good fit for our side.
Macca19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #999
Why do we want to free up the All Australian ruckman so he can spend considerable time playing forward?
And is Lobbe really in that great form? He finally took a couple of marks and kicked a couple goals on the weekend. Fine. Yet despite Lobbe having 45 hitouts and Port winning the hitouts 55-43, we still lost the clearances and centre clearances to Sturt. We led 14-8 in Centre Hitouts, yet lost centre clearances 8-12. Same issue as always. Can't direct taps.
We want to experiment, in a final, by playing a ruckman who hasn't played an AFL game all year, who was awful at AFL level for the 2 years before that, when we have the All Australian ruckman in our side.
#carn
Macca19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #1,000
This is all really a non sensical argument. 2014 was a long time ago. Lobbe has shown nothing in the last 3 years to suggest he can get back to his best of 2014. Lobbe has shown nothing in 2015 or 2016 to suggest he can successfully partner another ruck. Thats the whole problem.
The reason he was given a big contract was because it was considered that with some support, he would improve by not having to shoulder the entire ruck load. Ryder was never recruited to become the #1 ruckman. He only become that because Lobbe regressed from barely ok to disastrous in the art of rucking and became a complete non event around the ground. Cant take marks, cant play forward.
Lobbe has never been a good ruckman, in terms of the actual art of ruck work. He has consistently been either bottom or near bottom in hitouts to advantage and has a high rate of conceding hitouts to advantage to his opponent and also hitouts to opposition clearances.
In any case, this entire argument is silly. I'd like 2004 Brendan Lade to partner Ryder. It's just as realistic as wanting Lobbe 2014 to come in.
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