No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

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MadDocker said:
Unique Name I agree with what you're saying exactly but I'm not liking at comment.

meima Naaaa. Too much young talent to gut the team completely. Definitely going to be some big changes but not sure it's a total rebuild.
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Yep. I definitely don't think a full rebuild is required. We just need to balance the list somewhat and get gametime into our talented youth.

This year is a writeoff now but we should still be looking to improve our style/structures and win games. Next season we should continue to blood the youngsters and improve.

By 2018 (New Stadium) The three amigos and Alex Pearce will be approaching the 50+ game mark, Balic Tucker, Grey will have a few seasons. So will McCarthy if we get him. Shero, Croz, Sutty, Mora will be around 75+ games. Fyfe, Neale, Hill, Bennell, Walters will be in peak age bracket.

I think we already have the talent, we just need to get games into them and keep them on our list.

We do however have to get some KPF's via trade or draft. I have big doubts on Tabs and even bigger doubts on Apeness. McCarthy is a start but he's not a No1 foward target.
 
I love this melt thread, where I can let out my rational fears, so here goes

I fear that we’re royally screwed. Here’s is why I’m melting of fear:


Coaching – My primary cause of fear for our future

a) The loss of Simon Lloyd and Brett Kirk. They were really liked by the players and it’s no surprise that we’re now getting smashed in the midfield now kirk has left (and Sydney doing really well with young kids in their midfield). I also heard on the grapevine (social media and radio) that Ross and Kirk had a massive falling out about how Fremantle should go forward…interesting if true.

b) Peter Sumich, where do we stand? Personally, I don’t think he had proven himself yet as a coach and Simon Lloyd seemed to be doing a really great job, big shoes to fill. The amount of times he’s been passed over as senior coach jobs is a bit worrisome to me.

c) Recent ex-hawks players as coaches….It seems to me that it’s a knee jerk reaction to the loss of Lloyd and Kirk to get Guerra and Hale. Two coaches who have little experience, who happened to play for a good team... a good player doesn’t necessarily equate to a good coach. I’m skeptical but still optimistic about their coaching quality. Hale seems to be doing ok but Guerra is in charge of defense and we’re getting killed!

d) Finally, I trust ross but am worried and fear that he cannot adapt to the new game….. Look at Malthouse, he was a good coach but the game passed him….I really am worried that Lyon could go down a similar track…


Players – Secondary fear

a) Lack of KPPs. Nothing new but I don’t think we could have got a whole lot of good KPPs given our recent draft picks, could be wrong. I think we’ve done ok

b) Low attractiveness to get Free agents. If it wasn’t hard enough to get free agents here, wallowing down the bottom of the ladder won’t help. As highlighted by Cale Hooker signing with Ess right after our worst loss in recent history (probably a coincidence but still…).

c) There is the rumours that the playing group actually doesn’t respect or get along with Fyfe. That’s a worry as well, rumours only but usually they start from somewhere, hope not

d) Crozier, Sheridan and suttcliffe the next De Boer, Suban and Muzugu. Croz, Sheridan and sutty all showed promise but will they grow into good players? De pig, suban and muzz were promising back in the day but don’t think they grew.

e) Dawson as our only recognised key back. Hooker no longer available. Hope AP and collins grow more

f) Pav as our only recognised key forward. Do we rely on M Crabaner?

g) Losing Freo players to Free agency in search of a premiership. We’ve been good so far at retaining, but that’s easier when you’re winning.

These are my legitimate concerns for freo. They could all not come/be true. However I think the major changes to our coaching who the players liked, combined with the drastic shift in game plan, combined with the rumors of unsettlement within the Freo camp have lead to where we are now. Hopefully we don’t turn into the next Melbourne/StKilda.

Now I know why they used the tag #ForeverFreo….it appears this was always going to be a development year.
 

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Here's my melt.
These guys are professionals right? Which means they are full time. Our major issue is skills, specifically our disposal. Why then are they not practising for hours and hours each day? I get that they need to recover, but for blokes who don't have any serious injury concerns, what's preventing them from spending 2 or 3 hours each day (outside normal training) practising either field or goal kicking? A lot of my analogies are golf related, but the top pros will often head straight to the range to iron out any problems, straight after a round. This is why they're the best. Skills practice should be on top of trading structures etc until they get it right under game pressure. They're full time pros who aren't executing the basics of the game, but aren't practising them at the same time. Surely yoga can wait until we can kick straight???
 
So the season is done for us play the kids its 2008 all over again forget free agency we need picks now and to move forward I think a quick rebuild is possible 2019 maybe there will be players ready from playing the youngsters now mass delist this year ala 2008
 
Silent Alarm said:
He really seems like he's telling himself everything is okay. Is he trying to imply our issues are playing the youth? I don't know.
Click to expand...

It really did seem like that. His comment that "nobody saw it coming" is a serious worry for the club and the fanbase because a key element of success is understanding where you are at relative to your plans. Clearly Bond had no idea.

I don't see how you can go into a season really bullish and expecting to perform at a high level and then produce such a low level of football. Bond at the very least was asleep at the switch and it tells me his judgement of a football side no better than a casual training watcher.
 
Ragtooth said:
I love this melt thread, where I can let out my rational fears, so here goes

I fear that we’re royally screwed. Here’s is why I’m melting of fear:


Coaching – My primary cause of fear for our future

a) The loss of Simon Lloyd and Brett Kirk. They were really liked by the players and it’s no surprise that we’re now getting smashed in the midfield now kirk has left (and Sydney doing really well with young kids in their midfield). I also heard on the grapevine (social media and radio) that Ross and Kirk had a massive falling out about how Fremantle should go forward…interesting if true.

b) Peter Sumich, where do we stand? Personally, I don’t think he had proven himself yet as a coach and Simon Lloyd seemed to be doing a really great job, big shoes to fill. The amount of times he’s been passed over as senior coach jobs is a bit worrisome to me.

c) Recent ex-hawks players as coaches….It seems to me that it’s a knee jerk reaction to the loss of Lloyd and Kirk to get Guerra and Hale. Two coaches who have little experience, who happened to play for a good team... a good player doesn’t necessarily equate to a good coach. I’m skeptical but still optimistic about their coaching quality. Hale seems to be doing ok but Guerra is in charge of defense and we’re getting killed!

d) Finally, I trust ross but am worried and fear that he cannot adapt to the new game….. Look at Malthouse, he was a good coach but the game passed him….I really am worried that Lyon could go down a similar track…


Players – Secondary fear

a) Lack of KPPs. Nothing new but I don’t think we could have got a whole lot of good KPPs given our recent draft picks, could be wrong. I think we’ve done ok

b) Low attractiveness to get Free agents. If it wasn’t hard enough to get free agents here, wallowing down the bottom of the ladder won’t help. As highlighted by Cale Hooker signing with Ess right after our worst loss in recent history (probably a coincidence but still…).

c) There is the rumours that the playing group actually doesn’t respect or get along with Fyfe. That’s a worry as well, rumours only but usually they start from somewhere, hope not

d) Crozier, Sheridan and suttcliffe the next De Boer, Suban and Muzugu. Croz, Sheridan and sutty all showed promise but will they grow into good players? De pig, suban and muzz were promising back in the day but don’t think they grew.

e) Dawson as our only recognised key back. Hooker no longer available. Hope AP and collins grow more

f) Pav as our only recognised key forward. Do we rely on M Crabaner?

g) Losing Freo players to Free agency in search of a premiership. We’ve been good so far at retaining, but that’s easier when you’re winning.

These are my legitimate concerns for freo. They could all not come/be true. However I think the major changes to our coaching who the players liked, combined with the drastic shift in game plan, combined with the rumors of unsettlement within the Freo camp have lead to where we are now. Hopefully we don’t turn into the next Melbourne/StKilda.

Now I know why they used the tag #ForeverFreo….it appears this was always going to be a development year.
Click to expand...

Solid melt, I like it.

For me it is reversed. Players #1, Coaching #2. I broadly agree with your points on coaching but ultimately it is extremely difficult to be certain of any facts there. Ross has certainly made the right noises, has the credits in the bank and appears to be embarking on a (necessary) total re-work of the game plan.

I see a re-tool of the list being the largest impediment to us. Because if we want to be competitive in 3-4 years we need:

-#1 Ruck (Sandi)
-#1 KPF (Pav)
-#2 KPF (The elusive foil for Pav)
-Ruck/Fwd (can Apeness be this?)
-#1 KPD (Macca replacement)
-#2 KPD (reckon this is sorted with Alex Pearce)
-3rd tall who can kick (Johnno)

That's 7 quality talls we need, of which we have genuine prospects already on the list for 4 at best, 2 at worst.

We also need to replace another 4-5 mids/flankers with more skilled replacements. Taking Sunday's 22, we need upgrades on Mayne, Spurr, D.Pearce, Barlow and maybe Ballantyne (all are around 27/28). Mundy's also gone by then.

Can we pick up 10 genuine best-22 players in 3 draft/FA periods, of which 4-5 are talls (harder to get and develop), while also relying on guys like Crozier, Sheridan, Grey and Sutcliffe to pick up their games with experience? More replacements if anyone leaves.

Which is why I think this is a reasonable course of action:

WIZARD24 said:
So the season is done for us play the kids its 2008 all over again forget free agency we need picks now and to move forward I think a quick rebuild is possible 2019 maybe there will be players ready from playing the youngsters now mass delist this year ala 2008
Click to expand...

2008 we used 12 picks in the national and rookie drafts. We got, 2 guns, 5 other useful players and 5 delist fodder. Our pick numbers might look very similar too, although we lack the 2nd rounder unfortunately. 2008 certainly looks like a great draft year, but if we can repeat it we will go a long way towards getting back up again.
 
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i melted so hard getting into my car after work today, wanted to just drive off a bridge when i heard hooker signed with essendon, what the hell has freo done so wrong that nobody wants to come here and umpires continuously screw us over they seem to hate us as much as the rest of the afl players do
 
TheMcManusNose said:
Solid melt, I like it.

For me it is reversed. Players #1, Coaching #2. I broadly agree with your points on coaching but ultimately it is extremely difficult to be certain of any facts there. Ross has certainly made the right noises, has the credits in the bank and appears to be embarking on a (necessary) total re-work of the game plan.

I see a re-tool of the list being the largest impediment to us. Because if we want to be competitive in 3-4 years we need:

-#1 Ruck (Sandi)
-#1 KPF (Pav)
-#2 KPF (The elusive foil for Pav)
-Ruck/Fwd (can Apeness be this?)
-#1 KPD (Macca replacement)
-#2 KPD (reckon this is sorted with Alex Pearce)
-3rd tall who can kick (Johnno)

That's 7 quality talls we need, of which we have genuine prospects already on the list for 4 at best, 2 at worst.

We also need to replace another 4-5 mids/flankers with more skilled replacements. Taking Sunday's 22, we need upgrades on Mayne, Spurr, D.Pearce, Barlow and maybe Ballantyne (all are around 27/28). Mundy's also gone by then.

Can we pick up 10 genuine best-22 players in 3 draft/FA periods, of which 4-5 are talls (harder to get and develop), while also relying on guys like Crozier, Sheridan, Grey and Sutcliffe to pick up their games with experience? More replacements if anyone leaves.

Which is why I think this is a reasonable course of action:



2008 we used 12 picks in the national and rookie drafts. We got, 2 guns, 5 other useful players and 5 delist fodder. Our pick numbers might look very similar too, although we lack the 2nd rounder unfortunately. 2008 certainly looks like a great draft year, but if we can repeat it we will go a long way towards getting back up again.
Click to expand...

#2 kpf - McCarthy
#1 kpd - A. Pearce
#3 kpd who can kick - bootsma or Mora.?

Imo we also need a really creative, quality half-back. Frees sutcliffe or sherro to play up the ground and helps us to stop getting trapped in the back 50. Even if Hughes develops into that we need another.

Would love to see an a. Pearce, other kpd, spurr, hughes, bootsma and Mora back line come 2017.
 
Andy Brennan said:
#2 kpf - McCarthy
#1 kpd - A. Pearce
#3 kpd who can kick - bootsma or Mora.?

Imo we also need a really creative, quality half-back. Frees sutcliffe or sherro to play up the ground and helps us to stop getting trapped in the back 50. Even if Hughes develops into that we need another.

Would love to see an a. Pearce, other kpd, spurr, hughes, bootsma and Mora back line come 2017.
Click to expand...

Tucker
 
Andy Brennan said:
#2 kpf - McCarthy
#1 kpd - A. Pearce
#3 kpd who can kick - bootsma or Mora.?

Imo we also need a really creative, quality half-back. Frees sutcliffe or sherro to play up the ground and helps us to stop getting trapped in the back 50. Even if Hughes develops into that we need another.

Would love to see an a. Pearce, other kpd, spurr, hughes, bootsma and Mora back line come 2017.
Click to expand...

Yep. Best case scenario those spots are covered by those guys, and we have a few of Hughes, Blakely, Langdon, Nyhuis etc develop into best 18 players. But I think that's best case.

And as you say we really lack a creative half back with good kicking skills. You look at the really good teams and they have at least a couple of guys who can perform that role. Critically, they often have a tall who can do it as well. McGovern at West Coast, Lever at the Crows sort of thing. That's why McPharlin was such a big loss. I don't see anyone on our list fulfilling that role (maybe Tucker?), let alone a tall guy. So we still need at least 3 genuinely good talls (KPF, Ruck, KPD who can kick) in my opinion, even if we get McCarthy.
 

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TheMcManusNose said:
Yep. Best case scenario those spots are covered by those guys, and we have a few of Hughes, Blakely, Langdon, Nyhuis etc develop into best 18 players. But I think that's best case.

And as you say we really lack a creative half back with good kicking skills. You look at the really good teams and they have at least a couple of guys who can perform that role. Critically, they often have a tall who can do it as well. McGovern at West Coast, Lever at the Crows sort of thing. That's why McPharlin was such a big loss. I don't see anyone on our list fulfilling that role (maybe Tucker?), let alone a tall guy. So we still need at least 3 genuinely good talls (KPF, Ruck, KPD who can kick) in my opinion, even if we get McCarthy.
Click to expand...

Yep maca has been a gigantic loss.
Hard to replace one of the great CHBs of modern times.
 
Andy Brennan said:
#2 kpf - McCarthy
#1 kpd - A. Pearce
#3 kpd who can kick - bootsma or Mora.?

Imo we also need a really creative, quality half-back. Frees sutcliffe or sherro to play up the ground and helps us to stop getting trapped in the back 50. Even if Hughes develops into that we need another.

Would love to see an a. Pearce, other kpd, spurr, hughes, bootsma and Mora back line come 2017.
Click to expand...
Mora is not a HB or KpD , shift him back to Mid and HF , occasionally HB is OK due to match up , boostma is the one that fit the KPD we need.
 
TheMcManusNose said:
Yep. Best case scenario those spots are covered by those guys, and we have a few of Hughes, Blakely, Langdon, Nyhuis etc develop into best 18 players. But I think that's best case.

And as you say we really lack a creative half back with good kicking skills. You look at the really good teams and they have at least a couple of guys who can perform that role. Critically, they often have a tall who can do it as well. McGovern at West Coast, Lever at the Crows sort of thing. That's why McPharlin was such a big loss. I don't see anyone on our list fulfilling that role (maybe Tucker?), let alone a tall guy. So we still need at least 3 genuinely good talls (KPF, Ruck, KPD who can kick) in my opinion, even if we get McCarthy.
Click to expand...

Surely we bite the bullet and use our first pick on one of those three needs. Surely!
 
Freoforever86 said:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/afl/a/31443644/inside-the-wafl-shark-shines-with-screamer/

This doesn't help my melts. This kid would have close to 50 games by now & would be adding so much class on the outside :(
Click to expand...


Club did everything it could to get him playing AFL footy but ultimately he had his own agenda and issues. Good to see he is back on the track. Wouldn't rule out redrafting either, maybe a rookie list. Can't see a non-WA team select him .
 
free at last said:
Yep maca has been a gigantic loss.
Hard to replace one of the great CHBs of modern times.
Click to expand...
I think that A Pearce has the ability, history to be similar to both Elvis and Johnson. His history shows
he played as a mid. forward as a kid.
We would be better off using Collins now in Alex's position and developing him in Johnson's role.
He could also be used as a swingman, and having another Tall down back gives us options.
 
Andy Brennan said:
Well he is a good kick and we badly need good kicks up back
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Where does this myth come from that Morabito is a good kick? He has a thumping long kick but he would have as much trouble as anyone back there hitting up targets with precision.
Everyone rightly talks about McP as a massive loss out of the backline, the other one is Duffield. He was an elite kick
 
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